The Big East as of 12/9 | The Boneyard

The Big East as of 12/9

nelsonmuntz

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The first league games start this week, so want to discuss how folks think the league is shaping up.

First, this is possibly the weakest the league has been since it split off in 2013. There may have been worse seasons in terms of inter-conference records, but in terms of eye test, the league looks bad this season. It is a credit to the Big East coaches that the league is right around .500 vs. the P4, because it doesn't look like a .500 vs. P4 league watching the games.

1) Marquette (16-4 projected BE) - There are benefits to roster continuity. Marquette looks really smooth on both ends. I don't think this team is as talented as the last couple of Marquette teams, but the players are on the same page on both ends and it shows.

2) St. Johns (15-5) - the team is deep, fast, athletic, and I am a huge Ejiofor fan. The team should be 9-0, so the 7-2 is a bit of a cause of concern. I thought Pitino blew the game against Baylor, and he may be losing his fastball as a game coach.

3) UConn (15-5) - the offense is coming around, but the defense still has problems. When the Hurley/Murray UConn offense is clicking, it is unstoppable, and it was clicking for most of the Texas game. If the offense is that good, then Hurley has two months to fix the defense before March before we will really need it again after Gonzaga.

4) Creighton (13-7) - The Isaacs injury is going to hurt. I think Creighton will still play its way to a 7 to 10 seed, but this team could have been really good. Isaacs really hurts because Creighton has no depth in the backcourt. Creighton has a lot of depth up front, and will play a lot of lineups with three players of 6'9 or taller and should be able to keep Kalkbrenner fresh.

5) Xavier (10-10) - Not sure how a school like this is going to compete in the NIL era. The team doesn't suck, but it isn't great either. Freemantle has come back nicely from the foot injury, but Miller needs to manage his minutes and practice time. Conwell and McKnight are OK, not great. Probably not making the NCAA.

6) Butler (9-11) - same team as last year. Reasonably skilled and figures out how to score but painfully unathletic and not viable as an NCAA Tournament team. Telfort may be the slowest leading scorer who isn't a center at any major conference school.

7) Villanova (9-11) - Neptune is a terrible coach, but Dixon has apparently decided that he will "will" the team to wins. There is talent on this team if Neptune can get out of the way. They have already blown the tournament bid, but an NIT wouldn't be a bad way to go out for a team with 4 senior starters.

8) Providence (9-11) - Another decently talented team that does not play well. PC has to do better than 1-4 against the first semi-decent teams it plays.

9) Depaul (6-14) - Depaul is a lot better than it has been in recent years, but that is a low bar. This team is still a year or two from competing for anything that matters, but it does not completely suck, which is a big upgrade.

10) Georgetown (5-15) - I think Cooley is a mediocre coach and the talent level on this team is embarrassing based on my understanding that Georgetown is able to actually compete in NIL. Lost by 21 and 13 to the only two semi-decent teams Georgetown has played.

11) Seton Hall (3-17) - I am a huge Halloway fan, and I posted years ago that he should leave the program because Seton Hall is not even trying to compete in NIL. This season could end Halloway's career as a head coach, which would be sad because I think he would be really good at the right school.
 
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Looks about right. Feels like a 3-4 bid league, with Marquette out front and us and StJ competing for 2. The Creighton win over Kansas probably puts them on the right side of the bubble as long as they play well in BE play.

Creighton will lose at Bama this weekend. I feel like Xavier/Cinci this weekend could determine whether Xavier even has a chance at the tourney. Freemantle looks like a guy coming off injury so far, Hunter has generally been a non factor. Not sure how Xavier and most of the league fares in the NIL era, as not sure what differentiates most of the BE schools past us. The question is really whether all of these schools can figure out the Shaka system, as it will be the only way to compete. Can Shaka even sustain it as he’s losing the core of this team next year, 3 top scorers and an AA? Cupboards appear pretty thin once that trio moves on.
 
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MJ1

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The first league games start this week, so want to discuss how folks think the league is shaping up.

First, this is possibly the weakest the league has been since it split off in 2013. There may have been worse seasons in terms of inter-conference records, but in terms of eye test, the league looks bad this season. It is a credit to the Big East coaches that the league is right around .500 vs. the P4, because it doesn't look like a .500 vs. P4 league watching the games.

1) Marquette (16-4 projected BE) - There are benefits to roster continuity. Marquette looks really smooth on both ends. I don't think this team is as talented as the last couple of Marquette teams, but the players are on the same page on both ends and it shows.

2) St. Johns (15-5) - the team is deep, fast, athletic, and I am a huge Ejiofor fan. The team should be 9-0, so the 7-2 is a bit of a cause of concern. I thought Pitino blew the game against Baylor, and he may be losing his fastball as a game coach.

3) UConn (15-5) - the offense is coming around, but the defense still has problems. When the Hurley/Murray UConn offense is clicking, it is unstoppable, and it was clicking for most of the Texas game. If the offense is that good, then Hurley has two months to fix the defense before March before we will really need it again after Gonzaga.

4) Creighton (13-7) - The Isaacs injury is going to hurt. I think Creighton will still play its way to a 7 to 10 seed, but this team could have been really good. Isaacs really hurts because Creighton has no depth in the backcourt. Creighton has a lot of depth up front, and will play a lot of lineups with three players of 6'9 or taller and should be able to keep Kalkbrenner fresh.

5) Xavier (10-10) - Not sure how a school like this is going to compete in the NIL era. The team doesn't suck, but it isn't great either. Freemantle has come back nicely from the foot injury, but Miller needs to manage his minutes and practice time. Conwell and McKnight are OK, not great. Probably not making the NCAA.

6) Butler (9-11) - same team as last year. Reasonably skilled and figures out how to score but painfully unathletic and not viable as an NCAA Tournament team. Telfort may be the slowest leading scorer who isn't a center at any major conference school.

7) Villanova (9-11) - Neptune is a terrible coach, but Dixon has apparently decided that he will "will" the team to wins. There is talent on this team if Neptune can get out of the way. They have already blown the tournament bid, but an NIT wouldn't be a bad way to go out for a team with 4 senior starters.

8) Providence (9-11) - Another decently talented team that does not play well. PC has to do better than 1-4 against the first semi-decent teams it plays.

9) Depaul (6-14) - Depaul is a lot better than it has been in recent years, but that is a low bar. This team is still a year or two from competing for anything that matters, but it does not completely suck, which is a big upgrade.

10) Georgetown (5-15) - I think Cooley is a mediocre coach and the talent level on this team is embarrassing based on my understanding that Georgetown is able to actually compete in NIL. Lost by 21 and 13 to the only two semi-decent teams Georgetown has played.

11) Seton Hall (3-17) - I am a huge Halloway fan, and I posted years ago that he should leave the program because Seton Hall is not even trying to compete in NIL. This season could end Halloway's career as a head coach, which would be sad because I think he would be really good at the right school.
So 4 bids based on your analysis. I think Villanova has looked much better and can be a wild card.
 
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I am pretty sure the ACC is one of the P4. Why don't you work on this point and get back to us.
If you can't see that the ACC is slip-sliding away, I think YOU are the one that needs to do some work. They may be a P4 by name, but certainly not by what direction they are headed in. Once FL St and Clemson figure out a way to bail, that conference is toast.

I believe that was the responder's point
 

nelsonmuntz

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I should've specified P2. SEC and B1G are currently dominating and the SEC has 5 of the top 10 teams in both Kenpom and NET rankings

SEC won the ACC/SEC challenge 14-2

The Big 10 is not exactly dominating, and the Big East is 4-4 against the SEC this season.

But if it makes you this upset, why not just pick the best SEC team and be a fan of that school? This is a thread about the Big East this season.
 
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The Big 10 is not exactly dominating, and the Big East is 4-4 against the SEC this season.
The B1G and SEC are still leaps ahead of the pack, and that includes the B12 (surprisingly) and ACC

But if it makes you this upset, why not just pick the best SEC team and be a fan of that school?This is a thread about the Big East this season
Because I'm a UConn fan on a UConn board. Doesn't mean I have to be a Big East fan
 
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1. Marquette. Kam Jones will contend for All America 1st team and rightfully so. I don’t think Marquette has another star, but they have solid supporting pieces in Joplin (not a big Joplin fan tbh), Chase Ross, and Stevie Mitchell. Frontcourt depth is BAD which may get exposed in the BE, but they’re rolling right now

2. UConn. I think we’ve seen the worst of UConn this year already, and Hurley should have this team improve as the year goes on. Defense is the major problem, and the BE is a physical league so we will give up 25+ FTAs per game. But there’s too much talent and coaching on this team to rank them much lower

3. St John’s. RJ Luis is looking like a really solid first option, and I love Zuby Ejiofor. Kadary has the potential to put 25 on anyone’s head, and this team loves to play fast and run

4. Xavier. Maybe not as good as advertised, but Ryan Conwell looks like the real deal and Freemantle isn’t rusty at all. Oh and by the way they also have Dayvion McKnight and Dailyn Swain.

5. Creighton. Unfortunately their season is already cooked because of the Pop Isaacs injury, but Kalkbrenner is one of the best bigs in America and Ashworth is like 40 years old so they should be able to carry Creighton to the tournament themselves. Neal is looking like a solid supporting piece and Jackson McAndrew is gonna light up some team for 4-5 threes one game (then shoot 1-8 the next game)

6. Butler. I’m not gonna lie. I don’t believe in Butler. I’ll see what they’re made of a little more against Wisconsin, but they start BE play @ MU and vs. UConn. That’s a tough start. I am a big fan of Jahmyl Telfort and they’ll go as far as he brings them, which I don’t think is too far

7. Providence. They look really bad at times, but I have to assume that Hopkins will get better as time goes on which will allow guys like Bensley Joseph and Wes Cardet improve due to having less defensive attention. I want to drop them to 8-9 based on what I’ve seen, but I could also put them #6 based on blind trust in Bryce Hopkins.

8. DePaul. I don’t know if I’ve watched 1 DePaul game this year. But a quick stats check shows that they are among the best in PPG, FG%, 3P%, RPG, and APG. Maybe a result of bad competition, but maybe they’re a sleeper team?

9. Villanova. Eric Dixon will single handedly win some games. Fire Kyle Neptune. That’s all

10. Georgetown. Thomas Sorber is a name I’ve been watching all year. This kid is a BEAST. I’m really interested to see how he does against BE big men. Other than that..Malik Mack seems to be underperforming, Epps seems to have regressed, Fielder is going through a sophomore slump, and ultimately Sorber/Peavy is not enough

11. Seton Hall. Genuinely one of the worst high major programs in the country. This is a middle of the pack team in the better mid majors. A loss against Seton Hall will be a disqualifying loss for at-large resumes. And unfortunately Seton Hall will win a few games because the refs that day will decide to let them get away with murder on defense while giving them 30 FTs
 

nelsonmuntz

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Looks about right. Feels like a 3-4 bid league, with Marquette out front and us and StJ competing for 2. The Creighton win over Kansas probably puts them on the right side of the bubble as long as they play well in BE play.

Creighton will lose at Bama this weekend. I feel like Xavier/Cinci this weekend could determine whether Xavier even has a chance at the tourney. Freemantle looks like a guy coming off injury so far, Hunter has generally been a non factor. Not sure how Xavier and most of the league fares in the NIL era, as not sure what differentiates most of the BE schools past us. The question is really whether all of these schools can figure out the Shaka system, as it will be the only way to compete. Can Shaka even sustain it as he’s losing the core of this team next year, 3 top scorers and an AA? Cupboards appear pretty thin once that trio moves on.

I think Saturday is going to be rough for the Big East, but KenPom is projecting a lot of the games to be close. The Big East gets dinged in the Computer Rankings because its teams don't light up opponents. Not really a rational reason to have the Big 12 that much ahead of the Big East.

There are a few big games for tourney consideration:

Creighton/Alabama - Alabama will be a 10 point favorite or so for this game, but Creighton would put themselves in great shape for a bid if they won this game.

Wisconsin/Butler - Butler has a nice resume if it wins this game. Wins over SMU, Northwestern and Mississippi State is an OK bubble resume for a .500 team in conference, which is about where Butler will finish. But throw a win over Wisconsin on Butler's resume, and Butler looks pretty good. Butler would make the Dance with 10-10 and 19-12 overall.

Xavier/Cincinnati - Xavier needs a win over a non-conference win over team that has a shot to finish Top 50 NET. South Carolina and Wake Forest will both likely finish outside the Top 100.

Villanova already has 3 losses outside the Top 100. They would have to win 14 or 15 Big East games to even get considered for an at-large, and that isn't happening.

Providence may get a mild Mulligan on its Oklahoma, Davidson and Indiana losses if they play much better with Hopkins healthy. Realistically, PC has to win 12 or 13 Big East games, including the BET, and can't lose to St. Bonaventure.
 
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dennismenace

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If you can't see that the ACC is slip-sliding away, I think YOU are the one that needs to do some work. They may be a P4 by name, but certainly not by what direction they are headed in. Once FL St and Clemson figure out a way to bail, that conference is toast.

I believe that was the responder's point
LOL. You just reminded me of Elvis "Toast" Patterson (defensive back) of the NY Giants a few decades ago.

One of the greatest nicknames in sports history. Sadly, he'd be right at home with this version of the perpetually rebuilding NYG's.

A recent article was "Is this the worst Giants team in a hundred years?" Owners should be seen and not heard.
 
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Oh PC, the joy I get watching little brother melt down. The journey of a PC fan, hopes up, then kerplat, their cycle of life. All coped with via their crusty South Boston-esque anger. Like a hamster on a wheel, their tragedy continues. They should all just move off the dark side, come over to the light and join Husky nation to feel a little joy in their lives.
Diabolical
 
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The B1G and SEC are still leaps ahead of the pack, and that includes the B12 (surprisingly) and ACC


Because I'm a UConn fan on a UConn board. Doesn't mean I have to be a Big East fan
The B1G and SEC are good early season conferences that rarely win championships.

Since 2000-2001, these 2 conferences have won a combined 3 championships.

The ACC has won 8, the Big East has won 9, the B12 has won 3.
 
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I should've specified P2. SEC and B1G are currently dominating and the SEC has 5 of the top 10 teams in both Kenpom and NET rankings

SEC won the ACC/SEC challenge 14-2
How dare you talk about college basketball relative strength in a forum about college basketball.
 
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The B1G and SEC are good early season conferences that rarely win championships.

Since 2000-2001, these 2 conferences have won a combined 3 championships.

The ACC has won 8, the Big East has won 9, the B12 has won 3.
The big media revenue disparity and NIL money era of college athletics is relatively recent. The P2 have started to take their basketball programs seriously and the results are showing
 
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The big media revenue disparity and NIL money era of college athletics is relatively recent. The P2 have started to take their basketball programs seriously and the results are showing
Honestly, it's not recent at all for the B1G and SEC. B1G teams have $100m+ in revenue for a decade or more. For 2 decades already, they've been making 3x or 4x the amount of revenue that UConn has.

NIL is a different beast altogether, it's new. So we'll see.
 

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