The Best UConn Team Since The Big 3?

[Sluconn Husky]

You are making my point. Lou, Crystal and Gabby were not healthy last year. Crystal in particular hardly ever practiced with the team last year. In answer to your question, yes, I believe if everyone was healthy, UConn wins their 12th championship last season. But they weren't.

As for the metrics, give it a break. I believe the best statistical team in the country last season was Baylor. Nobody is making the argument that Baylor was the best basketball team in the country last season.

So last year's team was banged up yet still came within an eyelash of being undefeated and having better metrics than the Stewart teams. Sorry, you seem tired of me bringing up the types of stats that measure overall team quality, but those are just facts.

Baylor was not the "best statistical team." Best rebounding team, yes. Not the best in efficiencies.

Anyway, I'm probably about out of posts by now and I'd rather not beat this dead horse for eternity.

 

[oldude]

Anyway, I'm probably about out of posts by now and I'd rather not beat this dead horse for eternity.

Thank you for your contribution to this thread.

 

[Sluconn Husky]

Thank you for your contribution to this thread.

You too. It was fun.

 

[NewCorn]

You are crazy. Christyn is getting more easier basket because the other team is focusing so much on Lou and Pheesa. If she was guarded more tightly, I am not sure you would have seen the same result.

Perhaps Lou got more baskets in the second half because ND had to give more attention to Christyn

 

[oldude]

Perhaps Lou got more baskets in the second half because ND had to give more attention to Christyn

Sometimes, the simplest ideas are the most profound.

 

[CocoHusky]

So what does that tell you? Are you saying the last two years were better than any of Stewies? Sometimes it’s good to trust your eyes instead of just reading numbers.

My eyes tell me that Gabby Williams rendered a healthy AA Turner ineffective and allowed UCONN to dominate @ND. My eyes also tell me that Kia Nurse rendered AA Asia Durr invisible. My eyes tell me there is no defender on the current team the ilk of Gabby or Kia that can change a game defensively.
My eyes also tell me that last year UCONN had not only a good capable 6th man but also a respectable 7th in Azura and Megan. This years UCONN team only has the potential of ONO emerging as the 6th. I also used my eyes to check the assertions that KLS, Crystal, and Napheesa are playing better. "Statistically" (I understand that a dirty word for some but I did use my eyes) those assertions are close but clearly not definitive. Mad early into this season and I'm glad we are having this kind of discussion vs. the projected doom and gloom of this summer were some were predicting as many as 4 losses for this team.

 

[oldude]

My eyes tell me that Gabby Williams rendered a healthy AA Turner ineffective and allowed UCONN to dominate @ND. My eyes also tell me that Kia Nurse rendered AA Asia Durr invisible. My eyes tell me there is no defender on the current team the ilk of Gabby or Kia that can change a game defensively.
My eyes also tell me that last year UCONN had not only a good capable 6th man but also a respectable 7th in Azura and Megan. This years UCONN team only has the potential of ONO emerging as the 6th. I also used my eyes to check the assertions that KLS, Crystal, and Napheesa are playing better. "Statistically" (I understand that a dirty word for some but I did use my eyes) those assertions are close but clearly not definitive. Mad early into this season and I'm glad we are having this kind of discussion vs. the projected doom and gloom of this summer were some were predicting as many as 4 losses for this team.

Well stated as usual Cocoa. What do your eyes tell you about the ability of this team to put the ball on the floor, break down defenders and get their own shot, something we appeared to be on the receiving end of in each of the past two national semis?

 

[bballnut90]

I think the offensive potential of this team is higher than last year, namely because Collier looks a lot better without Stevens, KLS looks better and is better at creating her own shot, Williams is a better scorer than Nurse, Dangerfield is improved and Walker is a better shooter than Gabby Williams was. What is missing is a "do all the dirty work" type of player that you got with Kia Nurse who was always setting picks for her teammates, and Gabby's passing/overall ability is definitely missed...but individually, this team has a lot more playmakers than it did a year ago which should help in the event that a game gets tight late and it comes down to executing on a few final possessions.

 

[Huskee11]

UConn is 8 games into the season. There are likely 31 more to go. Much like the 2016-2017 season - remember beating Baylor that year - this team has definitely surprised to the upside out of the gate. But it is early.

I have been a UConn WCBB fan at least since 1995, but became a season ticket holder after the 2015-2016 season in large part due to Pheesa and Lou. Last season with those two, let`s enjoy the journey.

Picking which team is better is like deciding which child you like better. Those teams were probably better defensively, and this team is probably more versatile offensively. In point of fact, all three are or were very capable of winning it all.

Unfortunately, UConn didn`t peak at the end the last two seasons. In 2017, Kia was hobbled and the team as a whole seemed fatigued. In 2018, of course, injuries significantly limited the ability of three key players and as a result the defense was limited.

UConn is not deep, for sure. But they may be deep enough. Even going back many years, in big games Geno rarely gives significant minutes to more than 6 players. The bench this season seems more than adequate to hold their own in the one-sided victories, thus limiting the minutes the starters will have to play.

As the season grinds on, a major challenge for the coaches is to help the players avoid fatigue, especially the freshman wall for CW and ONO. ONO will have to learn not to foul, and Napheesa will have to work on avoiding ticky tack reach in fouls.

In March, it will be another trip to Albany and then on to Tampa. Gotta believe it will come down to UConn versus ND. That will be the biggest game in WCBB history. The question will be what did each team take from December 2 and do about it in the meantime.

 

[CocoHusky]

Well stated as usual Cocoa. What do your eyes tell you about the ability of this team to put the ball on the floor, break down defenders and get their own shot, something we appeared to be on the receiving end of in each of the past two national semis?

Good point. My eyes tell me that I disagree with @bbballfan23 when he stated that UCONN has two players that can do that on this year's team. My eyes tell me UCONN has 3 such players CW, CDIII, and KLS. Now that KLS has more stable ankles she has been breaking defenders ankles. In crunch time at ND KLS twice twisted up Turner and hit momentum changing or sustaining shots by creating off the bounce.
That's all goodness but I don't want people to get carried away that UCONN "suddenly" has break em down players and that is all we were missing or even the corollary to that which some are claiming makes this year's team better than last. CW and CDIII are more than break em down players and would flourish in any offensive system. Geno will skillfully and selectively use his break em down players. Geno has had break em down players before. Geno's history (perhaps preference) though is a broader comprehensive offensive that more reliant on proper spacing & ball movement as opposed to dribbling the basketball. Geno's Olympic team were filled with non-UCONN break em down players Catch, Seimone, Angel, & CP. Geno's preference has always come back to ball movement and spacing over dribbling.

 

[oldude]

Good point. My eyes tell me that I disagree with @bbballfan23 when he stated that UCONN has two players that can do that on this year's team. My eyes tell me UCONN has 3 such players CW, CDIII, and KLS. Now that KLS has more stable ankles has been breaking defenders ankles. In crunch time at ND KLS twice twisted up Turner and hit momentum changing or sustaining shots.
That's all goodness but I don't want people to get carried away that UCONN "suddenly" has break em down players and that is all we were missing or even the corollary to that which some are claiming makes this year's team better than last. CW and CDIII are more than break em down players and would flourish in any offensive system. Geno will skillfully and selectively use his break em down players. Geno has had break em down players before. Geno's history (perhaps preference) though is a broader comprehensive offensive that more reliant on proper spacing & ball movement as opposed to dribbling the basketball. Geno's Olympic team were filled with non-UCONN break em down players Catch, Seimone, Angel,
CP but his preference has always come back to ball movement and spacing over dribbling.

Spacing and ball movement will always be keys to UConn’s offense, but clearly there is a subtle difference in this year’s team when it comes to having the green light to create off the dribble.

I don’t want to get bogged down in numbers, but I do think it’s significant that after scoring 80 & 79 in regulation during 2 games vs ND last season, UConn put up 89 at South Bend on a night when Lou & Crystal did not shoot the ball particularly well.

 

[Papa33]

Great analysis. I watch every game as well, as I have for the past 6 seasons. People won’t like to hear it but this team is better.

Lou & Pheesa are better than they were (both by quite a bit in my opinion from last season).

We didn’t have anyone that could create their own shot (Crystal was hurt). Now we have 2 that can beat anyone off the dribble. Add that with our 2 NPOY Candidates that can score 20 in their sleep. This offense is light years ahead of our offense the last two seasons.
People forget a lot of our offense last couple years was created by steals for wide open layups. Against a team with good guards that could handle the ball (FF caliber teams) we couldn’t do that.

I won't get into comparative analysis, but one thing I did see and applauded during the ND game: UConn's half-court offense looked darned good against a ND defensive scheme that has given us problems in the past. ND weakness, perhaps. But the UConn half-court offense took full advantage of ND's zones. Geno had complained that we had been forcing things, rushing, not moving the ball (and the defense) side to side. In Sunday's game, they were passing quickly and patiently, creating open spaces to cut through or dribble and pass to for open shots. I've not seen that kind of savy, heads-up movement of players and the ball and sensible, opportunistic dribble-drives to the basket or foul lane for easy baskets. For this early in the year, they are playing very smart team basketball.

 

[shiverz45]

From an outsiders view: Collier, Lou, Dangerfield are better since they are a year older. Gabby, Kia, and Azura are much better than the combination of C. Williams, Walker and Ono. Can't predict the future but as of right now it is not even close. Williams had a monster game but it is only one game.

 

[huskyd]

This is fun, but maybe we should give it more than 8 games before we do an end zone dance.

 

[Sluconn Husky]

but individually, this team has a lot more playmakers than it did a year ago which should help in the event that a game gets tight late and it comes down to executing on a few final possessions.

Who are all these additional playmakers? They lost three and replaced them with one. Even if you include an improving Walker into the equation they still have fewer.

I get the feeling people are using "playmakers" as a stand-in for players who take their defenders off the dribble. But there are other ways to make plays.

 

[CocoHusky]

Who are all these additional playmakers? They lost three and replaced them with one. Even if you include an improving Walker into the equation they still have fewer. I get the feeling people are using "playmakers" as a stand-in for players who take their defenders off the dribble. But there are other ways to make plays.

Yea Slu this mantra started a while ago saying UCONN doesn't have players that can go one and one and win the game like Arike or Itty Bitty did. Nothing could be further from the truth! This has been bothering me for a while now. Neither of those plays were isolation, one on one type plays because they both started with high ball screens.

 

[jonson]

Well stated as usual Cocoa. What do your eyes tell you about the ability of this team to put the ball on the floor, break down defenders and get their own shot, something we appeared to be on the receiving end of in each of the past two national semis?

This seems to me the most important difference between this year and last. The UCONN offense is the most efficient (and beautiful) in WBB, but it's also very finely tuned (like some German pumps I used to have in a salt water reef tank) and so can bog down when things aren't going quite right. Having players who can put the ball on the floor--and, just as important, don't hesitate in doing so--is a major plus. It's the "win the game for us" option that Geno used with Crystal against Baylor and then mostly disappeared. Had that option been present last year I believe that there would be another banner in Storrs.

 

[bballnut90]

Who are all these additional playmakers? They lost three and replaced them with one. Even if you include an improving Walker into the equation they still have fewer.

I get the feeling people are using "playmakers" as a stand-in for players who take their defenders off the dribble. But there are other ways to make plays.

KLS looks more comfortable going off the bounce than she did a year ago. Collier too looks to be in attack mode more where she deferred last year. Plus Williams, and Walker looks smooth as a scorer.

Playmaker a lot of times is synonymous with taking your defender off the dribble to get a look for yourself or a teammate.

Last year Gabby was a great passer and attacked the basket but lacked midrange or perimeter shooting. Nurse scored almost exclusively on uncontested layups and wide open catch and shoot jumpers. She rarely penetrated or dribbled inside the arc. Stevens was inconsistent beyond 12 feet and did most of her damage in the paint. The roster now has 5 three point threats, and 5 players who can score off the dribble.

 

[Sluconn Husky]

KLS looks more comfortable going off the bounce than she did a year ago. Collier too looks to be in attack mode more where she deferred last year. Plus Williams, and Walker looks smooth as a scorer.

Playmaker a lot of times is synonymous with taking your defender off the dribble to get a look for yourself or a teammate.

Last year Gabby was a great passer and attacked the basket but lacked midrange or perimeter shooting. Nurse scored almost exclusively on uncontested layups and wide open catch and shoot jumpers. She rarely penetrated or dribbled inside the arc. Stevens was inconsistent beyond 12 feet and did most of her damage in the paint. The roster now has 5 three point threats, and 5 players who can score off the dribble.

I'd suggest Collier and Samuelson aren't all that different but are being forced to be more assertive since there isn't as much quality depth anymore. Also, until Walker consistently shows otherwise, I'd say UConn has three 3-point shooters. Collier's outside shot--and her free throw shot--are broken due to that ridiculous hitch.

I also disagree about Gabby who hit many midrange jumpers her last two years. She just wasn't a 3-point threat.

 

[bballnut90]

I'd suggest Collier and Samuelson aren't all that different but are being forced to be more assertive since there isn't as much quality depth anymore. Also, until Walker consistently shows otherwise, I'd say UConn has three 3-point shooters. Collier's outside shot--and her free throw shot--are broken due to that ridiculous hitch.

I also disagree about Gabby who hit many midrange jumpers her last two years. She just wasn't a 3-point threat.

You've probably seen more of UCONN this year than I have, but in the 3 games I've seen KLS looks more aggressive off the dribble. Geno didn't go to KLS down the stretch last year against ND for a reason...I think that has 100% changed if they are in a similar situation again this year.

Collier looks much more comfortable than she did most of last year IMO...we can agree to disagree there. Collier's 3 pt shot hasn't looked as good so far this year, so maybe 4 long range shooters--unless you're going to discredit Walker who is 8/20 so far from 7 games--but overall I think this team has great potential offensively than last year's squad. Defense is a different story, but offensively this team could be really good.

 

[oldude]

I'd suggest Collier and Samuelson aren't all that different but are being forced to be more assertive since there isn't as much quality depth anymore. Also, until Walker consistently shows otherwise, I'd say UConn has three 3-point shooters. Collier's outside shot--and her free throw shot--are broken due to that ridiculous hitch.

I also disagree about Gabby who hit many midrange jumpers her last two years. She just wasn't a 3-point threat.

Walker is currently at 40% from 3 (8/20). I will take that any day.

 

[Sluconn Husky]

Walker has no history of shooting 3's well so I wanna see more than 20 attempts before being convinced she's good at it. So far her form looks much better which is most important.

I'd point out one other thing. Recent teams, with the slight exception of two years ago, have given plenty of time to the back of the bench and even walkons. That to some extent has distorted their statistics. This year due to a really short bench and injuries the main five are cumulatively averaging 30+ minutes a game. In other words, their best players are all playing much longer than the best players of past teams. In fact, some of the Stewart teams got outscored for 10-15 minutes stretches in second halves after building enormous leads. Something to keep in mind when comparing this team with others.

 

[oldude]

Walker has no history of shooting 3's well so I wanna see more than 20 attempts before being convinced she's good at it. So far her form looks much better which is most important.

I'd point out one other thing. Recent teams, with the slight exception of two years ago, have given plenty of time to the back of the bench and even walkons. That to some extent has distorted their statistics. This year due to a really short bench and injuries the main five are cumulatively averaging 30+ minutes a game. In other words, their best players are all playing much longer than the best players of past teams. In fact, some of the Stewart teams got outscored for 10-15 minutes stretches in second halves after building enormous leads. Something to keep in mind when comparing this team with others.

Last year Megan shot 37% from 3 in limited action (13/35). She was a decent 3 pt shooter throughout HS. At what point will you accept that Megan is a good 3-pt shooter?

 

[Sluconn Husky]

Last year Megan shot 37% from 3 in limited action (13/35). She was a decent 3 pt shooter throughout HS. At what point will you accept that Megan is a good 3-pt shooter?

Walker shot 30% in her high school career. That's below average and certainly not good enough to be put alongside CW, KLS, or Crystal Dangerfield.

The other answer is simple. I wanna see more of a sample size. If she goes 5 for her next 20 she's down to 33%. But, again, I think her form has looked much better so I'm hopeful.

 

[oldude]

Walker shot 30% in her high school career. That's below average and certainly not good enough to be put alongside CW, KLS, or Crystal Dangerfield.

The other answer is simple. I wanna see more of a sample size. If she goes 5 for her next 20 she's down to 33%. But, again, I think her form has looked much better so I'm hopeful.

I watched Walker play several times in HS and she was very much a streak shooter from the arc. Her shooting mechanics and consistency have improved dramatically at UConn, which you might expect. I see Megan’s ability to hit 3’s on a similar trajectory as Mo, who was not a particularly great 3-pt shooter when she came to UConn. But she improved every year until she was one of the best. That’s where Megan is headed.

 

[Charliebball]

When you lose 3 top ten draft picks to the WNBA off a team without a lot of depth to start with, it’s difficult to imagine that the team you put on the court the following year could be better than either of the 36-1 teams that made it to OT in the last two national semifinal games. But watching this year’s version of the UConn Huskies closely over their first 8 games, and particularly in their convincing win in South Bend over the previous #1 team in the nation, it occurred to me that this may be the best UConn WBB team since the graduation of the Big 3. Here is my analysis of the top 6 players on this year’s team, and why I believe it could be better than either of the past two teams.

But if UConn finds a way to win in Waco and Louisville, they should once again be the #1 overall seed at the Big Dance, coming out of the friendly confines of the TUC in Albany, NY to make their 12th straight FF, and from there………

I don't think so.................they are weaker defensively and on the boards but if they win the NC I'll gladly admit my poor judgement

 

[oldude]

I don't think so.......they are weaker defensively and on the boards but if they win the NC I'll gladly admit my poor judgement

I’ll hold you to that.

 

[warbler1055]

My head is spinning with all the reasons which UConn team is better with statistics from each player supporting either case. To my simple mind, UConn lost to ND in the FF last year because they had Arike Ogunbowale at the buzzer. This year team has Christyn Williams and we won at ND by a fairly good score. So it seems to me that this year team is much different with the 2 freshmen. But although we won, the first 3 quarters of the ND game were close and could have gone either way. In addition, St John gave us a pretty good and close game. So it all depends on how this team improves over the next few months. Last year team was a wonderful team and I love them but injuries might have played a big role although nobody would use that as an excuse for losing.

 

[Lynx23]

You looked out the airplane's window and saw Gabby and Kia on the wings.

Seems to me UCONN could have used Kia on the floor when Crystal was getting tossed around.
None of it might have happened. BTW, 13 points/game and NDPOY, not too shabby. Some short memories on the board.

 

[Los24]

I agree that UConn does not have the two shut down defenders in Gabby and Kia, defense is very much a team effort, and as a team, so far, this team is leading the nation in defense.

I completely agree that this team will not have anywhere near as many assists as either of the past two, but one of the criticisms of both of those teams is that they didn't have anyone to take the ball and score in key situations when the shot clock was running down, like either Morgan William or Arike Ogunbawle in each of the last two national semifinal games. This year, Geno is building that ability by letting every single starter "hunt their shot." Just think back to last year's game vs ND. UConn had a chance to win it in regulation. Wouldn't it have been great to have Christyn on the floor with the ball in her hands?

So I have not posted much this year but have to jump in here. Just so I don't seem like I am over reacting to the ND game, I said we have the talent to beat anyone and called out that CW was going to have a breakout game (I will point to comment if doubted.) I said this because it seemed that she was holding back to fit in and feel her way with the rest of the high caliber players on the team. CW is what people refer to in baseball terms as "The Natural." I wrote a big reply (ok this is not short either) with all kinds of details but deleted because the next sentence I think captures the most critical component beyond any numbers......

The eye test tells me this is a better team for one simple reason.... CONFIDENCE! They had so much that I felt it during the game, I was normally on edge with every position in the games we lost and even some others we won over the past 2 years. In this years ND and St Johns games I felt like they felt they were going to win. The truth is, we were outplayed in the two FF OT games we lost. We were lucky to be in OT not the other way around. It felt like we were trying to not lose in those games, this year it just seems different. Time will tell but I agree this team can be better than the past two before the ND game. Important to note that "it can be," no one can definitively state after 8 games. That said, every game is different, but this team did just beat last years squad that is supposed to be even better plus it was on their home court.

Side note: Ono is the wild card and admittedly I did not have a fix on how she was going to play. I think she can help close the gap (along with MW) regarding some of the things that Gabby offered the team but obviously in a different way. To me CW is already better than Kia, and that is not a slight on Kia who was a great teammate/player but not a shot creator and much of her "scoring" came on uncontested wide open 3s and fast break layups. Yes I know defense matters but regardless of what some stated CW did not seem like a freshman on defense either. She did not look lost or confused and leads the team in steals. CW is not a lock-down defender but does not need to be, Kia had much more help from team defense than some wanted to admit.

Regardless of who agrees or not, Go Huskies!