The absurdity of our circumstance | The Boneyard

The absurdity of our circumstance

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Fishy

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UConn will play for two titles this week - titles they've won three times and eight times in the decade and a half or so. And then a bunch of schmucks from supposed power conferences will explain how their athletes face "different challenges" and therefore will require special rules that apply only to them.

Those special rules, couched as being for the benefit of the student, are really aimed at allowing the now insanely wealthy conferences the ability to spend that money towards gaining a competitive advantage.

The president of the committee, comically, is from Wake Forest. Is he really pretending that Wake exists in some special orbit? We have Rutgers and Virginia fans here - do they think they operate in some special orbit? They can rent out space in their trophy cases to the local high schools for all the use they've made of them.

It's a joke.
 
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Need a win tonight. Then we'll say more.
Before these title games, isn't the time to say anything, but we need to reply to that bullspit. I know some will say winning the titles will do the t rick, but enough of the horsesheet, this is a friggin cartel operation like Fishy said, trying to gain a competitive advantage over those outside the cartel by making the rules up. We are currently outside the cartel, kicking ass and taking names, and it must not sit well with them.
 
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The OP is dead on imo. I will take it one step farther. It spells a potential death nail for many of the very important things that differentiate college athletics. We run the distinct possibility of waking up in ten years and having 45 to 60 college athletic programs serving as minor leagues for pro football and basketball - and that's all. Regional interests, tradition and the student athlete will have been completely ignored. And if that happens, many college sport fans like myself will simply watch our football on Sundays. I don't like light beer and I seriously doubt I will like NFL or NBA light.

What is going on is enormously shortsighted....
 
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UConn will play for two titles this week - titles they've won three times and eight times in the decade and a half or so. And then a bunch of schmucks from supposed power conferences will explain how their athletes face "different challenges" and therefore will require special rules that apply only to them.

Those special rules, couched as being for the benefit of the student, are really aimed at allowing the now insanely wealthy conferences the ability to spend that money towards gaining a competitive advantage.

The president of the committee, comically, is from Wake Forest. Is he really pretending that Wake exists in some special orbit? We have Rutgers and Virginia fans here - do they think they operate in some special orbit? They can rent out space in their trophy cases to the local high schools for all the use they've made of them.

It's a joke.

As a former student athlete, and the parent of a son who is about to become a D1 student athlete, there are tremendous additional burdens placed upon athletes in P5 conferences. To claim otherwise is just plain dumb.

Athletes in so-called "major" athletic programs have many more press conferences taking up their time, much more expected (and unofficial) weight room training, time in the gym/on the field practicing "unofficially" with your teammates, etc. In addition, the travel schedule for athletes in the P5 conferences is much different from smaller D1 programs. Do you think travel is comparable in the Big South conference vs. the American Athletic Conference?

All of these things add up to give the athletes in P5 conference much less time for work, social, and academic pursuits.

These schools are making a tremendous amount of money off of these athletes, and the system should be updated to reflect the additional burdens/expectations that have been placed on these kids. BTW, these are burdens that didn't exist years ago. The fact that scholarships are one year deals is total BS. Scholarships should be 4-5 years guaranteed, no matter what. A former athlete should have the opportunity to finish his/her education after their eligibility has been exhausted, at no charge. There should be excellent (not just basic) medical coverage, as well as expanded disability insurance. Athletes should receive a fair monthly stipend ($500 or so) so they can afford basic college necessities.

This is not a slippery slope. You can still enforce the rules, and it doesn't pit the package from school A against the package from school B any more than it does now.
 
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The OP is dead on imo. I will take it one step farther. It spells a potential death nail for many of the very important things that differentiate college athletics. We run the distinct possibility of waking up in ten years and having 45 to 60 college athletic programs serving as minor leagues for pro football and basketball - and that's all. Regional interests, tradition and the student athlete will have been completely ignored. And if that happens, many college sport fans like myself will simply watch our football on Sundays. I don't like light beer and I seriously doubt I will like NFL or NBA light.

What is going on is enormously shortsighted....

The big problem we have is that SEC fans don't care. They are perfectly happy drinking swill.
 
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As a former student athlete, and the parent of a son who is about to become a D1 student athlete, there are tremendous additional burdens placed upon athletes in P5 conferences. To claim otherwise is just plain dumb.

Athletes in so-called "major" athletic programs have many more press conferences taking up their time, much more expected (and unofficial) weight room training, time in the gym/on the field practicing "unofficially" with your teammates, etc. In addition, the travel schedule for athletes in the P5 conferences is much different from smaller D1 programs. Do you think travel is comparable in the Big South conference vs. the American Athletic Conference?

All of these things add up to give the athletes in P5 conference much less time for work, social, and academic pursuits.

These schools are making a tremendous amount of money off of these athletes, and the system should be updated to reflect the additional burdens/expectations that have been placed on these kids. BTW, these are burdens that didn't exist years ago. The fact that scholarships are one year deals is total BS. Scholarships should be 4-5 years guaranteed, no matter what. A former athlete should have the opportunity to finish his/her education after their eligibility has been exhausted, at no charge. There should be excellent (not just basic) medical coverage, as well as expanded disability insurance. Athletes should receive a fair monthly stipend ($500 or so) so they can afford basic college necessities.

This is not a slippery slope. You can still enforce the rules, and it doesn't pit the package from school A against the package from school B any more than it does now.

Other than the coaches, no one at the schools is making money off athletes.

I agree with you that the pressures on athletes are absurd, and it makes education a farce. I don't see how you can differentiate the P5 from the AAC and MWC and similar conferences.
 
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upstater said:
Other than the coaches, no one at the schools is making money off athletes.

I agree with you that the pressures on athletes are absurd, and it makes education a farce. I don't see how you can differentiate the P5 from the AAC and MWC and similar conferences.

Well ADs maybe should be added, like that one that got a bonus for the athlete from his school winning that wrestling championship
 
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Well ADs maybe should be added, like that one that got a bonus for the athlete from his school winning that wrestling championship

yes, should have noted that some of these ADs are now making an absurd amount. Note: it is not uncommon for the top administrators on campuses to make $200k. But if you're in/above the $300k range, you are essentially profiting off free labor.
 
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Do you think travel is comparable in the Big South conference vs. the American Athletic Conference?

The American Athletic Conference is not a P5 conference. That is the irony of this whole thing.
 
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Mavblues, part of the problem is that the American Athletic Conference is being lumped in with the Big South Conference as being the same. By whom you ask? By the commissioners of the ACC, SEC, Big Ten, Pac12, and Big12, who locked themselves in a room, emerged and declared themselves the overlords of college athletics, and stated "from here on forth, you will refer to us as "The Power5". It is stupid, and arbitrary. In full disclosure mode, I will admit that I feel this way because UConn has been arbitrarily excluded from this cartel.
 
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The big problem we have is that SEC fans don't care. They are perfectly happy drinking swill.

Sure, there the poster children, but they are not alone. You have a small contingent of UCONN fans that would sell the institutional soul of the place for championships. The whole thing is really in a bad place and it could go terribly wrong.
 
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Other than the coaches, no one at the schools is making money off athletes.

I agree with you that the pressures on athletes are absurd, and it makes education a farce. I don't see how you can differentiate the P5 from the AAC and MWC and similar conferences.

He can because he loves BC
 
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As a former student athlete, and the parent of a son who is about to become a D1 student athlete, there are tremendous additional burdens placed upon athletes in P5 conferences. To claim otherwise is just plain dumb.

Athletes in so-called "major" athletic programs have many more press conferences taking up their time, much more expected (and unofficial) weight room training, time in the gym/on the field practicing "unofficially" with your teammates, etc. In addition, the travel schedule for athletes in the P5 conferences is much different from smaller D1 programs. Do you think travel is comparable in the Big South conference vs. the American Athletic Conference?

All of these things add up to give the athletes in P5 conference much less time for work, social, and academic pursuits.

These schools are making a tremendous amount of money off of these athletes, and the system should be updated to reflect the additional burdens/expectations that have been placed on these kids. BTW, these are burdens that didn't exist years ago. The fact that scholarships are one year deals is total BS. Scholarships should be 4-5 years guaranteed, no matter what. A former athlete should have the opportunity to finish his/her education after their eligibility has been exhausted, at no charge. There should be excellent (not just basic) medical coverage, as well as expanded disability insurance. Athletes should receive a fair monthly stipend ($500 or so) so they can afford basic college necessities.

This is not a slippery slope. You can still enforce the rules, and it doesn't pit the package from school A against the package from school B any more than it does now.

There is plenty of money out there to fund things like stipends for division 1A athletes. It's a myth that it can't be done - total myth The problem, is that the system structure that controls the most money - around college football - does not disperse the money evenly, or in any manner which makes sense and there is a huge divide in revenue streams within division 1A - never mind the other divisions.

Now trust me, I am as free-market, capitalism, limited governing control as can be - when it comes to real world economics. Academia - is not real world economics though. Intercollegiate athletics, IMNSHO, should have the mission of being an integral part of education. Athletic and academics - it goes hand in hand for me. I think all students at any higher education institution should be involved in organized athletic competition of some sort as well as academic school work. Maybe I'm in the minority thinking that - I doubt it.

So - what needs to happen, is that a governing body for intercollegiate football, needs to somehow get control of all the revenue again, so that it can be distributed fairly across the board so that athletes, at schools like Grambling for instance, have some sort of revenue stream to survive, while places like Wake Forest are collecting millions upon millions yearly.

I used to think that there were a couple of different ways that could happen, but the reality - I believe is that the only movement or force that could bring it to fruition, would be the creation of true college football post season consisting of division 1A conference champions, of which the NCAA controlled the revenue streams and distribution.

It would be slow change - and the remaining independants would need to join a conference, and confernces would have to completely re-align again all around the country - but hopefully at that point into 12 division 1A conferences, that make sense geographically and demographically. And then it would all be over.

Whatever.

I want our doggies to feast on the Colonel's chicken tonight. Pee a little bit in all the corners of the spaceship size stadium in Texas - mark it as UCONN territory.
 
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The American Athletic Conference is not a P5 conference. That is the irony of this whole thing.

Agreed, but the schools in the AAC aspire to be, so the expectations on the athletes is basically the same.
 
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Mavblues, part of the problem is that the American Athletic Conference is being lumped in with the Big South Conference as being the same. By whom you ask? By the commissioners of the ACC, SEC, Big Ten, Pac12, and Big12, who locked themselves in a room, emerged and declared themselves the overlords of college athletics, and stated "from here on forth, you will refer to us as "The Power5". It is stupid, and arbitrary. In full disclosure mode, I will admit that I feel this way because UConn has been arbitrarily excluded from this cartel.

Also agreed. I used the AAC because I am a UConn alum, and I used the Big South because one of the schools that offered my son is in that conference. Just personal preference.

My overall point is that there is obviously a big difference in the expectations/commitments required at smaller D1 programs than there is at P5 schools. And yes, I'm including schools in the AAC in that category (P5).
 
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Also agreed. I used the AAC because I am a UConn alum, and I used the Big South because one of the schools that offered my son is in that conference. Just personal preference.

My overall point is that there is obviously a big difference in the expectations/commitments required at smaller D1 programs than there is at P5 schools. And yes, I'm including schools in the AAC in that category (P5).
I get it. Problem is, the P5 schools are not.
 
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Also agreed. I used the AAC because I am a UConn alum, and I used the Big South because one of the schools that offered my son is in that conference. Just personal preference.

My overall point is that there is obviously a big difference in the expectations/commitments required at smaller D1 programs than there is at P5 schools. And yes, I'm including schools in the AAC in that category (P5).

I understand and agree with your point. Totally. I also think that it's not going to change, with the higher levels of competition, comes greater commitment to preparation to effectively compete. That's not going to change.

I think that there should be some kind of stipend (I do not like the word 'compensation') - because compensation indicates a one-way situation. There should be, in theory, a two way street. The university definitely benefits from athletic competition, but the athlete - although - should be - SHOULD BE - getting an education.
 
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If there is to be a "breakaway" into a professional model (I doubt it happens) I would prefer UCONN not be part of it anyway. If they breakaway and go minor league they will destroy themselves, they should just call that new division the confederacy.
 
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Husky25

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As a former student athlete, and the parent of a son who is about to become a D1 student athlete, there are tremendous additional burdens placed upon athletes in P5 conferences. To claim otherwise is just plain dumb.

Athletes in so-called "major" athletic programs have many more press conferences taking up their time, much more expected (and unofficial) weight room training, time in the gym/on the field practicing "unofficially" with your teammates, etc. In addition, the travel schedule for athletes in the P5 conferences is much different from smaller D1 programs. Do you think travel is comparable in the Big South conference vs. the American Athletic Conference?

All of these things add up to give the athletes in P5 conference much less time for work, social, and academic pursuits.

These schools are making a tremendous amount of money off of these athletes, and the system should be updated to reflect the additional burdens/expectations that have been placed on these kids. BTW, these are burdens that didn't exist years ago. The fact that scholarships are one year deals is total BS. Scholarships should be 4-5 years guaranteed, no matter what. A former athlete should have the opportunity to finish his/her education after their eligibility has been exhausted, at no charge. There should be excellent (not just basic) medical coverage, as well as expanded disability insurance. Athletes should receive a fair monthly stipend ($500 or so) so they can afford basic college necessities.

This is not a slippery slope. You can still enforce the rules, and it doesn't pit the package from school A against the package from school B any more than it does now.

That is simply not true. The P5 only exists in football and it begins this upcoming year (i.e. you cannot draw conclusions from historical data, because there is no historical data.). The G5 are Division 1 as well. If you want to make a distinction between pressures on athletes at the FBS and FCS levels, you may have a valid point. If you want to make a distinction between Division 1 and Division 2, you may have a valid point, but to say that student-athletes at all schools in P5 have more pressure than all other student athletes is simply untrue.
 
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My overall point is that there is obviously a big difference in the expectations/commitments required at smaller D1 programs than there is at P5 schools. And yes, I'm including schools in the AAC in that category (P5).

Except that no one else is, and that is the crux of the problem.
 
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That is simply not true. The P5 only exists in football and it begins this upcoming year (i.e. you cannot draw conclusions from historical data, because there is no historical data.). The G5 are Division 1 as well. If you want to make a distinction between pressures on athletes at the FBS and FCS levels, you may have a valid point. If you want to make a distinction between Division 1 and Division 2, you may have a valid point, but to say that student-athletes at all schools in P5 have more pressure than all other student athletes is simply untrue.

Untrue? LOL

Just like everything else on the Boneyard, we have a bunch of people with little or no experience in the matter telling others what is true and untrue. OK, have it your way: athletes at the P5 conferences do not have any additional burdens placed upon them than those at the smaller conferences.

UConn, and several other schools, are currently not technically P5 (for now), but they certainly are considered P5 as it relates to this issue by virtue of how their AD's are setup. And whether or not you call it "P5", "Majors" vs. "Mid-Majors", or "Haves" vs "Have-nots", the issue is the same. Those programs competing at the highest level do face increased expectations, press coverage, practice/training expectations, offseason programs/workouts, etc. P5 is simply this month's broad definition of the "Have's" for football, and it's going to change.

Hell, my son is already facing this issue because he's a nationally ranked player (in another sport) and he's still a year and a half from college. People are watching his stats, checking his background, going to his games, performing scouting reports, making scholarship offers, etc. Guess where most of the aggressive following is coming from. (Hint: it ain't the small schools.) Because he has a 4.1 GPA, he has schools all over the gamut recruiting him, from Ivies to big public, to small private. On visits, coaches even acknowledge the different expectations of the various types of programs, and spin it to their advantage. Lesser programs will tell you that "you can still have a regular college student experience here", etc.

If you play at the "P5", "majors", or "have" level (whatever you want to call it), you are playing regularly against other programs of that caliber, and you are also (by default) traveling more. You are facing increased scrutiny whether it's from coaching staffs, fans/opposing fans, on internet message boards, or press coverage from what we affectionately refer to at UConn as "the Horde". You are training more, practicing more, and you have a well defined plan for your summer (summer leagues, national team tryouts, scout days, etc.) At the bigtime programs, coaches are constantly overcommitting their scholarship allotment, so they need to turn over the roster - if you're not a starter and you're not performing you're gone. No pressure there. Simply put, you cannot even begin to compare the two environments from a student athlete's perspective.

BTW, this is also not solely relegated to football, or even basketball anymore. In those sports it's just more noticeable to the average fan.

As far as expanded benefits for players, the fact of the matter is that nobody knows what's going to happen. I just had a conversation a few days ago with a college coach, and to quote him "nothing's been decided yet, and nobody has any idea how this is going to play out". He was speaking of athletes in other (non-football) sports and whether those athletes would be included in any expanded benefits.

Sorry to be so adamant, but I do know what I'm talking about on this issue.

And just for the record, I am against "pay for play". I am simply stating that the current system needs fundamental, and drastic change. The status quo does not work.
 
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