That flag, USCar, and NCAA hosting

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DobbsRover2

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While searching for any clue why the WCBB selection committee would blow off the "no having 1-4 seeds from the same conference in the same region rule" for the seemingly less important geography rule (couldn't find any NCAA statement that supports Creme's contention for the 2014 tourney), I ran across the big NCAA rule change concerning the Confederate flag and the relaxation of the rule that formerly prevented South Carolina and Mississippi teams from hosting tourney games because their capital's statehouse flies the Rebel flag. The rule change is only in effect for the women's tourney, not the men's. Link

This is a big change, and obviously USCar is relieved now that they don't have to worry so much that Dawn Staley will get frustrated that her team can't host tourney games and leave for less Dixie pastures. The NCAA did not consult the NAACP about the change beforehand, and in its usual double-talking ways stated that it has not changed any rules or its views that "the flag is a symbol of oppression," it has just "altered the format of the women's basketball tournament" and allowed basically South Carolina to host subregionals starting next year. Since the men's tournament requires bids for the subregionals and the NCAA still won't consider a bid from a Confederate flag waving state, no SC or MS schools can host a men's tourney game.

I could not find any announcement of the "alteration" on the NCAA site for some reason. The South Carolina NAACP opposes the change, but business is business for the NCAA. It has been noted that the SEC and ACC have ignored the rule for conference championships for "minor sports" like baseball and women's basketball, but the new "alteration" concerns a national event. And on some occasions, the ACC has bowed to public pressure and changed the original tourney host site in SC.

So the women get to lead the way into the brave new world that ignores that inconvenient flag flying down at the statehouse. But at least the geography rule is respected since the Gamecocks can now make some frosty mornin' March stands at home in Dixie.
 
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UcMiami

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Very interesting. And surprising this did not garner more national attention! Maybe a few letters to ESPN and others should be forthcoming.
 
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Very interesting. And surprising this did not garner more national attention! Maybe a few letters to ESPN and others should be forthcoming.

I would start with the OP. It could not have been elucidated much better.
 

DobbsRover2

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Very interesting. And surprising this did not garner more national attention! Maybe a few letters to ESPN and others should be forthcoming.
Oh it gained a lot of attention in the SC papers, but that's kind of like out-of-sight out-of-mind to everyone else. And everybody is focusing on 2014, and this ruling isn't in effect until 2015.
 

cockhrnleghrn

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My understanding is that the women's tournament will be handled the same way as the baseball tournament and how the women's tournament was until about 10 years ago. That $%#$#$ flag is a continual embarrassment in South Carolina, but the gerrymandering in state house and senate districts mean that rural areas have excessive power in the State House. The City of Columbia has tried suing the state for removal of the flag from the State House grounds, to no avail. As much as I want the flag gone, the players and fans shouldn't have to suffer because of the idiots in the State House.
 

KnightBridgeAZ

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I'm with our South Carolina friend on this. I have no problem with pressuring schools over mascots, nicknames and the like (although it offends me that some are deemed acceptable and some unacceptable (are the Notre Dame teams so made up of Irish folk to merit a "fighting Irish" nickname and do Irish folks really fight so much?):confused:

That said, pressure the non-state schools in SC to not fly the state flag or use it in any way. Don't think you can do much about a state school showing the flag. And while it is perfectly appropriate to try and pressure the state, penalizing the State U WBB team is not likely to have much effect.:(

Incidentally, I have done tourism in SC, and I know a lot of folks who go there to golf, etc. Heck, my in-laws live there (warm climate in their old age, the NJ weather didn't do it). Don't think keeping tourists out is likely to pressure the state, either.
 

DobbsRover2

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It's hard to say what the best steps to take with the Confederate flag situation are, but I'd bow to the NAACP's beliefs and wishes on the question. They believe keeping the issue alive and making it an inconvenience to state businesses and schools and keeps up the pressure for needed change.

There was a situation in Arizona recently over a law that I know some on the BY favored, but whether you were a fan or a critic, it's clear that threatened boycotts by businesses like the NFL brought about a veto of the measure. Here the NCAA has chosen a route to accommodate it's own convenience in a way that is in stark contrast to its rules for men's basketball. SC schools are not allowed to bid for host sites, but they can kind of fall into having them if the NCAA is not too publicly seen as receiving cash from the transaction.

And yes I know that there also many other thorny issues with nicknames like the Red Men, Red Raiders, Red Devils, and various tribal names being used for college mascots that are deplored by at least some Native American groups, plus various ethnic groups like the Irish and Scots that unofficially have fighting adjectives thrown in to improve their reputation on the gridiron, and a number of religious references in nicknames that offend some people, but the Confederate flag issue is different in that it points directly at state legislatures and their continuing reverence for past injustices that are not too far in the past.
 

UcMiami

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I do think it is a worth while endeavor to use outside pressure to bring about social change, so I am all for continued pressure even if it 'hurts' some people who are 'innocent'. We have some wacky state houses passing some silly laws and one way to address it is for national organizations to refuse to support states that do x,y,or z. A number of golf courses and country clubs changed their membership rules when the PGA finally took a stand and refused to consider them for tournament venues based on racist membership policies.
 

cockhrnleghrn

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I support the NCAA on not allowing neutral tournament sites in states that fly that flag, but in WBB, teams play on home courts. If they didn't play on home courts during the tournament, then it would be fine. I've helped organize MLK Day marches in Columbia and have participated in many others to move the flag to a museum. I also supported the city's position when we sued the State of SC to remove the flag. I just don't think it's right to penalize the WBB team for something that has nothing to do with them. If we could give away Upstate SC to another state, this would be a non-issue, as the flag would be gone.
 

DobbsRover2

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The fact is, whether the USCar women can host NCAA national tournament games is not going to have any impact on whether the Confederate flag still waves high in Columbia. Some might even argue that certain crimson necked types might be happy to stick it to women's sports. But still in the realm of the NCAA, this is just another of those unequal type of situations that violate principles simply because it deals with the "minor" sports. If the top football teams hosted bowl games and the Gamecocks were prevented from being a host due to the flag, there would be immense local pressure and far more national attention paid to the issue. As it is, it's "just the women" or "just baseball," and I'm sure that ESPN won't even mention the issue on their broadcast of the games or the difference in NCAA rules there. Maybe in another generation the Civil War and segregation era will be far enough in the past that the specter of the flag will no longer be hanging over any games.
 
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