Tennessee @ Mississippi St (6) - 2/10/19

[oldude]

Watching the LV’s yesterday, I had two thoughts. My first was, they have some really talented young players on the team. My second was, those players will likely never reach their potential.

Assuming that HW is back next season, and TN is not hit hard by the transfer bug, the LV’s will have the most talented team in the SEC imo. But if past is prologue, they will underachieve, and while they may get back to the Big Dance, somewhere along the way they will be knocked off by a tougher, better coached team.

Stop me if you’ve heard this one before.....

 

[DefenseBB]

Watching the LV’s yesterday, I had two thoughts. My first was, they have some really talented young players on the team. My second was, those players will likely never reach their potential.

Assuming that HW is back next season, and TN is not hit hard by the transfer bug, the LV’s will have the most talented team in the SEC imo. But if past is prologue, they will underachieve, and while they may get back to the Big Dance, somewhere along the way they will be knocked off by a tougher, better coached team.

Stop me if you’ve heard this one before.....

Ok, STOP! I mean you did ask.

 

[mbr33ct]

Ok, STOP! I mean you did ask.

You noticed oldude put that line at very end...to get there we have to read what came before it.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Watching the LV’s yesterday, I had two thoughts. My first was, they have some really talented young players on the team. My second was, those players will likely never reach their potential.

Assuming that HW is back next season, and TN is not hit hard by the transfer bug, the LV’s will have the most talented team in the SEC imo. But if past is prologue, they will underachieve, and while they may get back to the Big Dance, somewhere along the way they will be knocked off by a tougher, better coached team.

Stop me if you’ve heard this one before.....

A lot of raw talent has passed through the Tenn program and all but disappeared or just flat out disappeared during the last 8 years. That is unfortunate for WCBB and I feel for those kids. None of them had anything to do with the bad blood history of our two programs.

 

[Gamecockfan77]

A lot of raw talent has passed through the Tenn program and all but disappeared or just flat out disappeared during the last 8 years. That is unfortunate for WCBB and I feel for those kids. None of them had anything to do with the bad blood history of our two programs.

Westbrook, Rennia Davis, Horston, Green, Massengill, etc. is quite the backcourt.

Can never quite write them off because of the talent.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Westbrook, Rennia Davis, Horston, Green, Massengill, etc. is quite the backcourt.

Can never quite write them off because of the talent.

When have more than 2 of them had a very good performance in a game. I'd like to see Rennia somewhere else where she won't become dispirited. That's a talent.

 

[Gamecockfan77]

When have more than 2 of them had a very good performance in a game. I'd like to see Rennia somewhere else where she won't become dispirited. That's a talent.

There is that. Watching Tennessee, you see moments of brilliance when they are engaged and on all cylinders. And then an adjustment happens, or something goes wrong, and all of a sudden they look like an average team that feels bad about itself.

But sometimes talent that complements itself can thrive without much help from the coach.

 

[oldude]

But sometimes talent that complements itself can thrive without much help from the coach.

I agree with everything you say except the last part. In my view, talent without the guidance of an effective coach will usually unravel under pressure.

Case in point. TN held together pretty well for 3 qtrs yesterday, but completely fell apart in the 4th qtr when they felt the pressure of trying to close on the road against a tough, well coached opponent.

 

[IWearShoes]

Mississippi State dominates Tennessee to make big statement

 

[RockyMTblue2]

There is that. Watching Tennessee, you see moments of brilliance when they are engaged and on all cylinders. And then an adjustment happens, or something goes wrong, and all of a sudden they look like an average team that feels bad about itself.

But sometimes talent that complements itself can thrive without much help from the coach.

Team you recall like that? Now Geno has said he took the year off in Stewie's senior year, but a lot of coaching went into that team along the way. Your theory has has been the Tenn fans hopes for years and years under Holly. Whether offense or defense, to consistently have a chance against top, well coached teams on either end of the floor the 5 talented people have to coordinate. Occassionally Tenn does something really good, usually at home - like beating ND at home a couple of years ago, but that did not make them a final 4 team that year.

 

[Gamecockfan77]

Team you recall like that? Now Geno has said he took the year off in Stewie's senior year, but a lot of coaching went into that team along the way. Your theory has has been the Tenn fans hopes for years and years under Holly. Whether offense or defense, to consistently have a chance against top, well coached teams on either end of the floor the 5 talented people have to coordinate. Occassionally Tenn does something really good, usually at home - like beating ND at home a couple of years ago, but that did not make them a final 4 team that year.

Not necessarily talking about them returning to the Final Four as much as them returning to where they were in Warlick's first few seasons. A conference and Elite 8 contender.

There are plenty of examples on the men and women's side of coaches who recruit very well but aren't necessarily viewed as being great bench coaches who have a certain degree of success with the right groups of players.

In recent years, they've played so far below their talent level it is somewhat astounding.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Not necessarily talking about them returning to the Final Four as much as them returning to where they were in Warlick's first few seasons. A conference and Elite 8 contender.

There are plenty of examples on the men and women's side of coaches who recruit very well but aren't necessarily viewed as being great bench coaches who have a certain degree of success with the right groups of players.

In recent years, they've played so far below their talent level it is somewhat astounding.

The men! You can't use them. The don't defend or play much of any offensive scheme either.

 

[Bigpetunia]

I know that Tennessee hatred runs deep on our forum, and that’s fine. Personally, I do not subscribe…it’s all too rooted in ancient grievances for my taste. Besides, when you’ve got such better candidates for your disdain around (like Notre Dame) why bother? But I wonder if my friends here are nevertheless sorry to see such a once-proud and legendary program sink so low, if, at least, for no other reason than what its descent might signal for the future of other once-proud programs.

It appears that, barring a minor miracle, the Lady Vols will not even make the BIG dance this season, the capitalization of BIG just to serve as a reminder that we’re talking about sixty-four (!!) teams here, not a handful. How did this happen? Anyone who is tasked with the unenviable job of replacing a legendary coach is in a very tough spot, and, in the case of Holly, well, to put it charitably, she’s clearly in over her head. But, still, the day, alas, when the legendary coach of our favorite team steps down looms on the hopefully distant horizon. As a Husky fan, I’m not going anywhere, but what can we reasonably expect down the road? With a financially-strapped athletic program facing the inevitable demands, will the resources continue to be committed to any women’s athletic program, irrespective of its extraordinarily proud history? I don’t know the answer, but I’m certainly skeptical. I am pleased with the prospect that increasing levels of parity are bringing to WCBB. But for a program with the history of the Lady Vols to sink this low, that’s not just as a result of other programs getting better. This, to me, is just sad. Thoughts?

 

[donalddoowop]

Would agree with kudos for his coaching....although I'll reserve any superlatives like "amazing" or "great" until I see a bit more without 6'7" McCowan in the middle. As we continue to learn, "time will tell." As many on the Boneyard are starting to admit, height is, in many cases, an equalizer.

I say amazing because he has done it with only one high school AA and has continued to do it after losing four starters last season. They have only one loss this season. Texas had height with Imani and how good did they do over her career? No other coach has taken his or her team to the championship NCAA tournament game two consecutive years with the level of talent he has in recent years. Baylor had Griner and went to the championship game only once and they had height. UConn has not had much height the past two seasons and lost on last second shots to taller teams. If what Schaefer is doing is not amazing, then it is a very, very, very good job he is doing. After losing four starters from last season, I did not think MSST would be even a good team this season.

 

[Undercovervol]

Like you said, Holly is in way over her head. The only success she had was mostly tied to players that had a year or two of coaching under Summit. When she finally had all of her own players and assistants, she started to fail miserably, even with WNBA talent (Deshields, Nared, Russell, Burdick, Graves). This year is no exception, and she can't fall back on any of the other excuses she's used in the past: our team isn't that young, we have talent, and we have experience. We don't have coaching (or assistant coaching--Lockwood and others are partly to blame.) Warlick can recruit because she can easily build rapport with her players, but when it comes to in game coaching, she just doesn't have it, probably because she played from 1980-1984, when the game was much different (and yet Mulkey can still coach and adapt). A good comparison is Aston at Texas, though Aston is probably a bit better (it is my great fear that Aston will try and come to UTenn).
Part of the problem is also some of our fans, who continue to show up and support Warlick (no matter what happens) because Warlick has been a "Vol for Life." These fans support mediocrity.
Another part of the problem is the local and national media, who are way too nice to Warlick (a men's coach would be absolutely publicly bashed). The media writes soft ball articles and asks soft ball questions after games. If Warlick were truly confronted with hard questions, she would look even more inept--because she has no answers. Maria Cornelius is a truly dishonest reporter that pushes Warlick propaganda.
I'm hoping for a firing at the end of the season, because I think Warlick is too proud or clueless to step down. If she's here next year, I will not watch a single LV game, even the UConn game.

 

[CL82]

I don't think AD really cares about the LV's and their tradition and (past) success. Tennessee is a football school and men's BB is doing well. If the LV's were doing well fine, but I don't think the AD is losing a whole lot of sleep over them. LV fans, correct me if I am wrong here.

 

[Bigpetunia]

Just for the record, when I made reference to financially-strapped athletic programs, ‘twas UConn’s I was talking about.

 

[Jim R]

I say amazing because he has done it with only one high school AA and has continued to do it after losing four starters last season. They have only one loss this season. Texas had height with Imani and how good did they do over her career? No other coach has taken his or her team to the championship NCAA tournament game two consecutive years with the level of talent he has in recent years. Baylor had Griner and went to the championship game only once and they had height. UConn has not had much height the past two seasons and lost on last second shots to taller teams. If what Schaefer is doing is not amazing, then it is a very, very, very good job he is doing. After losing four starters from last season, I did not think MSST would be even a good team this season.

God ooints - don't necessarily disagree...would just like a bit more evidence before saying he is "great"...as far as this year, it doesn't hurt to have Howard. Hey, Vic's getting loads out of what he has, there's no denying that. Although they've got 11 championships to prove their formula works...I wonder what a little "tweak" might do to UCONN's hight school player selection...there's a whole lot of talent (and some with great attitiudes) out there ending up at other places.

 

[SECbbfan24]

I am guessing next season Taylor Promise starts, Carter will see a lot of time in the post. Knowing Vic, Grad transfers would still not be out of the possibility.

Vic's two star recruits were Vivans and McCowan. Vivans was always a big time player but I originally thought McCowan was a bit of a project who was very raw. Her development from what she was as a freshman to now is simply incredible. Size goes a long way but how she used it and polished her offensive game and footwork has been great.

I think he has done a great job building a great supporting cast and having a system that allow them to thrive with their style of play. Morgan Williams, Schafer, Holmes, Richardson, Chapel were all 3 star recruits who didn't get recruited by many schools.

I'll be honest, after what they loss last season I am really surprised at how strong they are this year. Losing all those senior starters isn't easy to replace.

But it does seem now the recruiting is opening up and more talented kids are on their way to Starkville. Grabbing rickea Jackson was big time for them

 

[Jmsdawg]

Big T was Vic's last sub with about one minute to play. Most of the bench came in with 4 minutes to play.
BTW, AEH didn't play in the second half until the last four minutes. I believe she started in the first half. I don't know if she was totally responsible for Rennia Davis' 18 points in the first half, but her defense could have been an issue.

Rennia Davis was responsible for her 18 points in the first half! She had one of those games were the ball was just going in no matter were or how she shot the ball.

 

[CocoHusky]

As a UCONN fan I have a hard time generating any level of sympathy for the Lady Vols mainly because I view the lame attempt to destroy the UCONN program as unforgivable. That attempt tried to accomplish what the Lady Vols could not do on the court & hurt many innocent people some of who still post here on the BY. What makes it unforgivable is that many of the people involved are still representing the Lady Vols program today-Yes I do mean Holly.

Having said that I don't think it will take a minor miracle for TN to make the big dance. The 2015-16 version of the Lady Vols finished the season 22 and 14 7th in the SEC at 8 and 8 and still made the tournament.
The current team sits at 15 and 8 and 4 and 6 in the SEC. TN has enough talent to 4 and 2 in the remaining 6 SEC games. TN also has enough ineptness to go 2 and 4 in those 6 games. Neither outcome would be a miracle.
Lastly and most confounding, the Lady vols continue to accumulate talent which makes a eulogy for the program at least premature. Give any competent coach the Lady talent and Lady Vols fans may actually get those glory days they been longing for.

 

[Jmsdawg]

I know that Tennessee hatred runs deep on our forum, and that’s fine. Personally, I do not subscribe…it’s all too rooted in ancient grievances for my taste. Besides, when you’ve got such better candidates for your disdain around (like Notre Dame) why bother? But I wonder if my friends here are nevertheless sorry to see such a once-proud and legendary program sink so low, if, at least, for no other reason than what its descent might signal for the future of other once-proud programs.

It appears that, barring a minor miracle, the Lady Vols will not even make the BIG dance this season, the capitalization of BIG just to serve as a reminder that we’re talking about sixty-four (!!) teams here, not a handful. How did this happen? Anyone who is tasked with the unenviable job of replacing a legendary coach is in a very tough spot, and, in the case of Holly, well, to put it charitably, she’s clearly in over her head. But, still, the day, alas, when the legendary coach of our favorite team steps down looms on the hopefully distant horizon. As a Husky fan, I’m not going anywhere, but what can we reasonably expect down the road? With a financially-strapped athletic program facing the inevitable demands, will the resources continue to be committed to any women’s athletic program, irrespective of its extraordinarily proud history? I don’t know the answer, but I’m certainly skeptical. I am pleased with the prospect that increasing levels of parity are bringing to WCBB. But for a program with the history of the Lady Vols to sink this low, that’s not just as a result of other programs getting better. This, to me, is just sad. Thoughts?

I agree with everything you said. As a Mississippi State fan we are suppose to hate any team that always beat us and I certainly enjoyed the blowout win but I hope UT can fight the ship.

 

[Jmsdawg]

Like you said, Holly is in way over her head. The only success she had was mostly tied to players that had a year or two of coaching under Summit. When she finally had all of her own players and assistants, she started to fail miserably, even with WNBA talent (Deshields, Nared, Russell, Burdick, Graves). This year is no exception, and she can't fall back on any of the other excuses she's used in the past: our team isn't that young, we have talent, and we have experience. We don't have coaching (or assistant coaching--Lockwood and others are partly to blame.) Warlick can recruit because she can easily build rapport with her players, but when it comes to in game coaching, she just doesn't have it, probably because she played from 1980-1984, when the game was much different (and yet Mulkey can still coach and adapt). A good comparison is Aston at Texas, though Aston is probably a bit better (it is my great fear that Aston will try and come to UTenn).
Part of the problem is also some of our fans, who continue to show up and support Warlick (no matter what happens) because Warlick has been a "Vol for Life." These fans support mediocrity.
Another part of the problem is the local and national media, who are way too nice to Warlick (a men's coach would be absolutely publicly bashed). The media writes soft ball articles and asks soft ball questions after games. If Warlick were truly confronted with hard questions, she would look even more inept--because she has no answers. Maria Cornelius is a truly dishonest reporter that pushes Warlick propaganda.
I'm hoping for a firing at the end of the season, because I think Warlick is too proud or clueless to step down. If she's here next year, I will not watch a single LV game, even the UConn game.

Is Holly the problem or are fans like you the problem?

 

[BroadwayVa]

As a UCONN fan I have a hard time generating any level of sympathy for the Lady Vols mainly because I view the lame attempt to destroy the UCONN program as unforgivable. That attempt tried to accomplish what the Lady Vols could not do on the court & hurt many innocent people some of who still post here on the BY. What makes it unforgivable is that many of the people involved are still representing the Lady Vols program today-Yes I do mean Holly.

Having said that I don't think it will take a minor miracle for TN to make the big dance. The 2015-16 version of the Lady Vols finished the season 22 and 14 7th in the SEC at 8 and 8 and still made the tournament.
The current team sits at 15 and 8 and 4 and 6 in the SEC. TN has enough talent to 4 and 2 in the remaining 6 SEC games. TN also has enough ineptness to go 2 and 4 in those 6 games. Neither outcome would be a miracle.
Lastly and most confounding, the Lady vols continue to accumulate talent which makes a eulogy for the program at least premature. Give any competent coach the Lady talent and Lady Vols fans may actually get those glory days they been longing for.

Of the less than many on the By I truly like, I hold you in particular esteem, that is why I find it difficult to disagree with anything you post. I give you this: Each of us are entitled to like or dislike any one anyplace any team. However, Pat had the start of her disease many years before she died of that. I won't go into the horrors of that disease because most likely you know of them. The Administration of the LV's cannot claim the same. They, I hold responsible.
But I do not hold Holly or the kids that play for the LV's responsible for anything. That as was stated is old ancient history. We as decent people, and most on the By are just that--decent people, must move on and accept that which is within our hearts to accept and ignore the rest.
I to vote for the dismissal of Holly. Not that I dislike Tenn but because I truly hate to see a once great program, the ones that led Uconn to greatness, devolve into this.
No Disrespect sir, just by your comments to me on this board--you honor me. Thank you.

 

[Bayareahusky]

I just keep thinking after seeing the LV faithful applaud for staying close through the middle of the 3rd quarter....

If you are in a distance race..... say the mile run.... and you stay close for the first 3 quarters of the race, only to lose steam and lose race by a lot.... is there ANY reason to claim victory..... of any kind?