Team Conditioning...UConn and ND

[Bigpetunia]

We Husky fans, quite justifiably, hate it when people around the country talk about how bad UConn's level of success is for WCBB. What makes the reality of this kind of shallow thinking so fundamentally annoying is the simple truth that "the UConn way," if I can use that term, is undeniably better than what other programs have to offer their players. Other programs can do better, but they either elect not to or the players decline to buy in as they do here. To cite just one example, if you check out the current Geno show, lots of it is focused on the staff's lofty expectations of the players' conditioning, as in "What? You're puffing hard after only ninety minutes?" Azura talks about how different those particular expectations are at UConn in comparison to "other programs." I guess we know at least one program to which she refers!

I could not help but be starkly reminded of this subject when watching the ND/Tenn game last night. In the fourth quarter, both teams, and especially ND, with a deeper bench than UConn, were downright gassed, so much so that Doris had to call it to attention. I remember, I guess it was after a UConn pasting of ND last year, when Stewie, in a post-game, on-court interview commented, "We didn't think they'd want to run with us!" I think that's a pretty damning indictment of what other programs try to get accomplished, which makes the whining about how bad UConn is for the game particularly insulting. Do folks want this to be nice, dainty girls' basketball or women's athletics at the highest level? I realize that every school doesn't have the opportunity to recruit players that display the kind of willingness to "buy in" that Geno does, but enough do to transform the landscape of WCBB to a more level playing field than it is...so, please, step it up or shut up!

 

[CocoHusky]

Don't walk when you can run.
Don't jog when you can sprint.
I (Geno) ,not you, gets to decide when you are going hard enough.

 

[Orangutan]

I could not help but be starkly reminded of this subject when watching the ND/Tenn game last night. In the fourth quarter, both teams, and especially ND, with a deeper bench than UConn

When push comes to shove, both teams are only going 7 deep. The only bench players that got appreciable minutes last night for ND were Young and Nelson. Boley played 3 min, Johnson 2.

I guess you could say that's part of the problem that ND has two high school All-Americans on the bench that the coach doesn't trust (Patberg & Boley).

For what it's worth, I had the game on mute and I didn't notice the players being tired (though many here did so I may just have missed telltale signs). Though they did have trouble with Tennessee beating them to loose balls, I think it was the mental mistakes that really doomed them.

 

[JordyG]

Geno: "l'm trying to get you guys to understand the pace of play. That when you jog you become very good at jogging. Then you become the best jogging team in America. Then you're watching the NCAA's at home".

 

[johnnyc]

To cite just one example, if you check out the current Geno show, lots of it is focused on the staff's lofty expectations of the players' conditioning, as in "What? You're puffing hard after only ninety minutes?" Azura talks about how different those particular expectations are at UConn in comparison to "other programs." I guess we know at least one program to which she refers!

Well Geno made sure we know lol

Azura spent two years at Duke, then she gets here and we're trying to get her to sprint and it's 'makes huffing and puffing sounds'

 

[trb123]

Does Muffet invite other coaches to watch ND practice?

 

[bags27]

Boy, Bigpetunia, this is something that has kept going through my mind since watching ND last night. There are aspects of what I'm thinking that may not belong on a public board, because it has to do with body type, which goes to self-image, etc. But the short version is that some of the ND players do not look really fit and it was an inescapable impression in the last minutes of the 3rd Q. I do think this has to with the ND coaching and how much the head coach and her ass'ts want to push them and demand that they get into the most competitive possible shape. Pat Summit and Geno (and CD who leads by example) went all East German on WCBB (without the drugs), determining that practices be so hard that games became easy.

 

[JordyG]

Geno once said, "Don't tell me how far you can go. Or else what do you need me for? I'll tell you how far you can go".

 

[HopJim]

We Husky fans, quite justifiably, hate it when people around the country talk about how bad UConn's level of success is for WCBB. What makes the reality of this kind of shallow thinking so fundamentally annoying is the simple truth that "the UConn way," if I can use that term, is undeniably better than what other programs have to offer their players. Other programs can do better, but they either elect not to or the players decline to buy in as they do here. To cite just one example, if you check out the current Geno show, lots of it is focused on the staff's lofty expectations of the players' conditioning, as in "What? You're puffing hard after only ninety minutes?" Azura talks about how different those particular expectations are at UConn in comparison to "other programs." I guess we know at least one program to which she refers!

I could not help but be starkly reminded of this subject when watching the ND/Tenn game last night. In the fourth quarter, both teams, and especially ND, with a deeper bench than UConn, were downright gassed, so much so that Doris had to call it to attention. I remember, I guess it was after a UConn pasting of ND last year, when Stewie, in a post-game, on-court interview commented, "We didn't think they'd want to run with us!" I think that's a pretty damning indictment of what other programs try to get accomplished, which makes the whining about how bad UConn is for the game particularly insulting. Do folks want this to be nice, dainty girls' basketball or women's athletics at the highest level? I realize that every school doesn't have the opportunity to recruit players that display the kind of willingness to "buy in" that Geno does, but enough do to transform the landscape of WCBB to a more level playing field than it is...so, please, step it up or shut up!

Interesting! Have gone to SMU game the past two years and shared your thoughts each year. Two years ago, most of the SMU guards were the same height as UConn's but 20 lbs heavier. Became a layup drill after one quarter with Huskies beating SMU down floor every play. This year, probably based on their new coach, SMU kept up better but subbed frequently. Still gave up many fast break lay ups. Have received most games this year on cable and see this in 90% of the games. Not sure how he does it, but Geno always has the best conditioned team in US.

 

[BobbyJ]

When push comes to shove, both teams are only going 7 deep. The only bench players that got appreciable minutes last night for ND were Young and Nelson. Boley played 3 min, Johnson 2.

I guess you could say that's part of the problem that ND has two high school All-Americans on the bench that the coach doesn't trust (Patberg & Boley).

For what it's worth, I had the game on mute and I didn't notice the players being tired (though many here did so I may just have missed telltale signs). Though they did have trouble with Tennessee beating them to loose balls, I think it was the mental mistakes that really doomed them.

A question about Boley for you. In HS she looked like a mobile, physically strong, and good shooting forward to me. Do you have any insight on why McGraw doesn't trust her and what has slowed her development?

 

[bizarro aj]

The difference between a great player and a good player is, "great players never get tired and when the good players get tired the great player kicks their ass"

 

[Orangutan]

A question about Boley for you. In HS she looked like a mobile, physically strong, and good shooting forward to me. Do you have any insight on why McGraw doesn't trust her and what has slowed her development?

I haven't heard anything from the coaches on her. To my eye, she looks like she has yet to adjust to the pace and complexity of the college game. You can almost see her thinking about what she is supposed to be doing on each play instead of knowing what she is supposed to be doing and reacting. That tends to make her a step slow, especially on defense. Also, her HS team played zone exclusively so she could be having trouble adjusting to playing man defense.

 

[iamcbs]

When push comes to shove, both teams are only going 7 deep. The only bench players that got appreciable minutes last night for ND were Young and Nelson. Boley played 3 min, Johnson 2.

I guess you could say that's part of the problem that ND has two high school All-Americans on the bench that the coach doesn't trust (Patberg & Boley).

For what it's worth, I had the game on mute and I didn't notice the players being tired (though many here did so I may just have missed telltale signs). Though they did have trouble with Tennessee beating them to loose balls, I think it was the mental mistakes that really doomed them.

I agree, I didn't notice fatigue on either side though that's the excuse narrative that Doris tried to perpetuate. TN just wanted it more and Mercedes Russell showed us once again why the Brianna Turner hype is just that, man if they could get DeShields to play at a high level all of the time, TN could be special....

 

[Millenial23]

ok, but I don't know about that 'dainty girls basketball' comment. I bet the boy's teams are similarly conditioned to the rest of the field - it's just less noticeable because of whatever style they play, and probably because I'd bet they all play that way, and maybe to some extent their physical abilities (faster, stronger, etc). I bet a boy's team would have just as much trouble in one Geno's and CD's practices as one of the other women's teams. Just throwin' that out there...

 

[Buckaroobanzai]

We Husky fans, quite justifiably, hate it when people around the country talk about how bad UConn's level of success is for WCBB. What makes the reality of this kind of shallow thinking so fundamentally annoying is the simple truth that "the UConn way," if I can use that term, is undeniably better than what other programs have to offer their players. Other programs can do better, but they either elect not to or the players decline to buy in as they do here. To cite just one example, if you check out the current Geno show, lots of it is focused on the staff's lofty expectations of the players' conditioning, as in "What? You're puffing hard after only ninety minutes?" Azura talks about how different those particular expectations are at UConn in comparison to "other programs." I guess we know at least one program to which she refers!

I could not help but be starkly reminded of this subject when watching the ND/Tenn game last night. In the fourth quarter, both teams, and especially ND, with a deeper bench than UConn, were downright gassed, so much so that Doris had to call it to attention. I remember, I guess it was after a UConn pasting of ND last year, when Stewie, in a post-game, on-court interview commented, "We didn't think they'd want to run with us!" I think that's a pretty damning indictment of what other programs try to get accomplished, which makes the whining about how bad UConn is for the game particularly insulting. Do folks want this to be nice, dainty girls' basketball or women's athletics at the highest level? I realize that every school doesn't have the opportunity to recruit players that display the kind of willingness to "buy in" that Geno does, but enough do to transform the landscape of WCBB to a more level playing field than it is...so, please, step it up or shut up!

To conclude that either ND or Tenn players were "gassed" in the second half of the game is difficult, particularly since we are watching the game on television. There is, however, no question in my mind that the speed of the game diminished in the second half and that ND had no-one to step up and consistently take the crucial shot as Tenn fought back from a 15 point deficit. Turner for ND missed at least five "bunnies" in the second half - perhaps she was tired from defending Mercedes Russell. In any event, in the many years I have watched ND (principally against Uconn), I have never seen it cave so completely.

 

[Kibitzer]

Does Muffet invite other coaches to watch ND practice?

Why would she ever do that? Who would accept? Why?

 

[Kibitzer]

Not sure how he does it, but Geno always has the best conditioned team in US.

Whoo-Hoo! I know, I know!

 

[Monte]

Does Muffet invite other coaches to watch ND practice?

Only the ND men's coach!

 

[UcMiami]

I think one of the telltales of a tired team is mental mistakes - the mind goes before the body on an athlete that is not conditioned to 'push through.' ND certainly had enough mental mistakes in the second half.

One thing I found really really strange - there was a play where Russell lost her shoe - a whistle stopped play for an out of bounds or a foul, and the camera showed her just sliding her foot into the shoe again and getting into her playing position - no attempt to tighten the shoe or anything. It might explain her moving on the court like she is wearing slippers most of the time?!

 

[trb123]

Does Muffet invite other coaches to watch ND practice?

Why would she ever do that? Who would accept? Why?

Muffet was complaining about a lack of respect for ND some time ago.
When other coaches attend your practices, you have earned it.

 

[Geew1992]

When push comes to shove, both teams are only going 7 deep. The only bench players that got appreciable minutes last night for ND were Young and Nelson. Boley played 3 min, Johnson 2.

I guess you could say that's part of the problem that ND has two high school All-Americans on the bench that the coach doesn't trust (Patberg & Boley).

For what it's worth, I had the game on mute and I didn't notice the players being tired (though many here did so I may just have missed telltale signs). Though they did have trouble with Tennessee beating them to loose balls, I think it was the mental mistakes that really doomed them.

Mabrey came off the bench too

 

[hardcorehusky]

I am not sure it was physical fatigue. To me it was mental fatigue- it is a combination of younger players who have hit the wall or are not used to concentrating for 40 minutes as well as a team a little shock that things weren't coming easy to them. Mentally it snowballed and then players had that little bit of tentativeness and started getting beat to rebounds and loose balls. Most teams get discouraged when the ball doesn't go in the basket. It takes special concentration not to let that affect the rest of their game. ND couldn't overcome that. Conversely, Tennessee had all the momentum and built on it.

 

[Huskie78]

I agree, I didn't notice fatigue on either side though that's the excuse narrative that Doris tried to perpetuate. TN just wanted it more and Mercedes Russell showed us once again why the Brianna Turner hype is just that, man if they could get DeShields to play at a high level all of the time, TN could be special....

And on hype alone she will make some AA team.
I'll take the Lawrence Taylor of WCBB EVERY DAY OF THE WEEK over the hype... and it's not even close.

 

[Patty Bailey]

I think one of the telltales of a tired team is mental mistakes - the mind goes before the body on an athlete that is not conditioned to 'push through.' ND certainly had enough mental mistakes in the second half.

One thing I found really really strange - there was a play where Russell lost her shoe - a whistle stopped play for an out of bounds or a foul, and the camera showed her just sliding her foot into the shoe again and getting into her playing position - no attempt to tighten the shoe or anything. It might explain her moving on the court like she is wearing slippers most of the time?!

I commented on the same thing to my husband. If her shoe was tied properly there would be no way she could just jam her foot back in without untying it and retying it.

 

[Matty722]

I am from Kentucky and I watched Erin Boley play in high school - I was very impressed with her even when she was only in the 8th grade - I knew she'd be a phenomenal player one day. With that being said, here are my personal observations:

1) I have noticed that the top Kentucky Girls High School players over the last 12 years (even national top 100 players) is that their level of speed is vastly slower when compared to other top players around the country - they may look fast when playing against other girls in-state, but when they get to college they are much slower compared to other players.

2) Boley was in "good shape" while at E'Town High School, but like all kids when they get to college, they realize their level is far lower than what is required to compete at the highest level at a school like Notre Dame.

3) As Orangutan mentioned above, E'Town did play mostly zone defense (short bench, masking individual defensive deficiencies, coach preference/comfort) - going from mostly zone to any period of man to man is difficult even for the quickest/fittest players at the D1 level.

4) She does seem to overthink when she plays - she is a VERY intelligent young woman, and she seemed to me that she was a perfectionist in high school - we know that sometimes players like that overthink (Maya Moore as an example - when she just played she was great, but when she overthought the game, she made mistakes) - part of it is getting acclimated to the college game and I have no doubt that she will do just fine.

5) To wrap this up, I believe she will improve physically and mentally - she will be an outstanding player for the Irish one day and they are going to love seeing her develop. I just hope she doesn't torch UConn one day!