Talk to me about replacing windows...

[husky429]

I need to replace a bunch of windows in the house I'm renovating with inserts. I'll do the installation myself and probably put in new trim inside and out while I'm at it. Energy-efficiency is a must even if it means more $. Not afraid to spend some money since we'll be living here for 30 years or more.

Window guys are like used car salesman, so I'm coming to the yard.

Any advice? Brands? Wood vs Aluminum clad vs vinyl clad?

 

[HuskyHawk]

Are new windows really worth it for energy savings? From some quick research it looks like new windows only save $300-500 bucks a year, so the payback period is really long.

I have original single pane windows from 1979. Approximately 30 windows x $1,000, it would easily cost $30k-$40k to get new windows. I guess my thinking is I’ll just pay the extra $500 in energy costs per year and deal with the old window aesthetics.

I guess newer windows would be more appealing if I were to sell and could recoup some of the cost in the sales price. However, it just doesn’t seem like the cost of new windows is worth it if the goal is to simply reduce your energy bills.

No. Just like you don't save money trading in your car for a more efficient one. But eventually you need a new car anyway. If you have wood sills, those are going to rot. They may stop moving properly and swell at certain times. That's why we did the front first (gets all the rain and we had some window rot) and the back a few years later.

 

[GlastonTim]

Double hung or casements?

 

[husky429]

Double hung or casements?

Double-hung

 

[GlastonTim]

Would stay away from vinyl and go with fiberglass.

 

[TheShot1990]

I replaced all of the sashes with solid wood ones years ago. They were called tilt-packs from Marvin but looks like they're discontinued.

But, looks like other companies do this such as:

All-Wood Sash Kit - Trimline Custom Wood Windows

Wood Interior / Wood Exterior Jambliners cut at specific sill angles (0 to 14 degrees) E-Z Tilt sash release latches 11/16″ insulated glass with EnerEDGE® warm-edge spacer Width: 14″ – 48″ Height: 26″ – 84″ United Inches: 120″ Products SKW200 (Heritage) All-Wood • Sash Replacement Kit •...

www.trimlinewindows.com

and

https://www.jeld-wen.com/en-us/products/windows/siteline-clad-wood/double-hung-sash-pack

If you are just gonna replace the sashes, order pre-finished white (or primed) on the exterior. This way you only have to stain/varnish the interior side.

 

[Northbound]

I have a client that owns a bunch of retail lumber in home centers Marvin would be the way to go. If I recall correctly, Marvin signature line are fiberglass and outperform wood or aluminum or anything like that but they are pricey and they look great.

 

[Umami Zen]

Not my lane but we went Pella. Installed by Pella. Fiberglass. 15+yrs ago. Still just like new. Major impact on energy savings. Warm in winter. Cool with AC in summer. BTW..If your home has a deck. They have a great assortment of sliding door configurations to choose from. As you probably already know- Not your cheapest choice but definitely helps resale value of home if interested.

 

[itsasport]

I am a painting contractor and was a juror in a lawsuit where the installation of the windows was at issue- Some of them leaked because they had not been installed and caulked properly. They had to be reinstalled. Because it was done by a contractor, we voted to reimburse the plaintiff for replacement and repair of the water damage.

So, I you install yourself, make certain that you do it exactly according to the manufacturer's specifications. Specifications, especially in construction, are there for a reason.

Also. you have to remove and dispose of your present windows. I live in California where labor is not cheap but decided to hire the window company's staff to replace some windows. I think that the labor per window was about $250.00 - for removal and disposal of the old windows, prepping the frames for the new windows, installation, putting the window frames back on and caulking.

Because it was only two windows, the cost per window was more than if I had installed more, but for the two workers it was a full day. I was too far away for them to get to another job.

The Yarders who said all that was easy to do properly- I don't know.

Have you ever done it before? Do you have a single- or two-story house?

The caulking is really important. Use a paintable silicon caulk and do not draw it across the crack.

Put the tip of the caulking gun over the space and pump the caulk into the crack until you can see it coming out ahead of the nozzle. Keep pushing forward that way, always having a little wave of caulk visible ahead of the nozzle.

Do not push hard on the caulk back into the space. Let it extend a little outside the crack.

If you do not do all that, the entire inner space will not be filled. The caulk will contract and harden and result in water damage that can rot out the sills from the inside.

Paintable silicon caulk is a little hard to find. It is at Home Depot in California.

Also, prime and paint all the surfaces of the window frames. This will prevent rot if water gets past the caulk.

 

[husky429]

I am a painting contractor and was a juror in a lawsuit where the installation of the windows was at issue- Some of them leaked because they had not been installed and caulked properly. They had to be reinstalled. Because it was done by a contractor, we voted to reimburse the plaintiff for replacement and repair of the water damage.

So, I you install yourself, make certain that you do it exactly according to the manufacturer's specifications. Specifications, especially in construction, are there for a reason.

Also. you have to remove and dispose of your present windows. I live in California where labor is not cheap but decided to hire the window company's staff to replace some windows. I think that the labor per window was about $250.00 - for removal and disposal of the old windows, prepping the frames for the new windows, installation, putting the window frames back on and caulking.

Because it was only two windows, the cost per window was more than if I had installed more, but for the two workers it was a full day. I was too far away for them to get to another job.

The Yarders who said all that was easy to do properly- I don't know.

Have you ever done it before? Do you have a single- or two-story house?

The caulking is really important. Use a paintable silicon caulk and do not draw it across the crack.

Put the tip of the caulking gun over the space and pump the caulk into the crack until you can see it coming out ahead of the nozzle. Keep pushing forward that way, always having a little wave of caulk visible ahead of the nozzle.

Do not push hard on the caulk back into the space. Let it extend a little outside the crack.

If you do not do all that, the entire inner space will not be filled. The caulk will contract and harden and result in water damage that can rot out the sills from the inside.

Paintable silicon caulk is a little hard to find. It is at Home Depot in California.

Also, prime and paint all the surfaces of the window frames. This will prevent rot if water gets past the caulk.

I'll attempt to answer all the parts of this... thank you for the thorough response.

1) Yes, I've installed more windows than I can remember. I never opted to get licensed as an apprentice carpenter or take the classes, but I worked for my uncle's finish carpentry and home improvement business all told probably 3 years worth of full-time hours.

2) I don't think windows are that difficult assuming the framing doesn't need replacement or new flashing or anything. Doors are much more annoying to shim and level IMO. I suppose I've never been a painter, so I've never had to clean up my own shoddy job though, lol.

3) Disposal is no issue since we're doing so much on this renovation. I'm just collecting all the trash in the garage or outside and renting a dumpster for a day every once in a while.

4) IIRC I always used acrylic latex for the interior and polyeurethane for the exterior. But I'm not 100% sure. Regardless, I know that not all caulks are created equal (lol) and to get the right one for the job.

 

[NJHusky]

sounds like you’ve done more of these than anyone here.

my dad was in the biz and I’ve done a lot of home repairs, but not windows. My contractor wanted new construction windows, not replacement. Which r u doing?

 

[husky429]

sounds like you’ve done more of these than anyone here.

my dad was in the biz and I’ve done a lot of home repairs, but not windows. My contractor wanted new construction windows, not replacement. Which r u doing?

Replacement inserts, most likely. The frames aren't in bad shape at all. I'd need to do a bit more research on full-frames... flashing, nail flanges and such isn't something I've done in probably 15 years. Doable if I need to.

I'm not an expert or close to it in anything, believe me. I watch a whole lotta Youtube.

 

[hookshot]

A lot of Contractors like Marvin but there not cheap. I have them

 

[NJHusky]

Replacement inserts, most likely. The frames aren't in bad shape at all. I'd need to do a bit more research on full-frames... flashing, nail flanges and such isn't something I've done in probably 15 years. Doable if I need to.

I'm not an expert or close to it in anything, believe me. I watch a whole lotta Youtube.

Spoke to 2 diff contractors and both wanted to do new construction with flanges. Never asked why just went along.

Replacements seem much easier.

 

[huskiesNhoos]

Low e windows, just make sure u don't mind the color...they can get bluish green tint

Don't fall for the gas fill w xenon or argon. It's all gone eventually no matter how good the seal and honestly doesn't do anything.

 

[Pistolpete]

I need to replace a bunch of windows in the house I'm renovating with inserts. I'll do the installation myself and probably put in new trim inside and out while I'm at it. Energy-efficiency is a must even if it means more $. Not afraid to spend some money since we'll be living here for 30 years or more.

Window guys are like used car salesman, so I'm coming to the yard.

Any advice? Brands? Wood vs Aluminum clad vs vinyl clad?

Google Window E Store

I need to replace a bunch of windows in the house I'm renovating with inserts. I'll do the installation myself and probably put in new trim inside and out while I'm at it. Energy-efficiency is a must even if it means more $. Not afraid to spend some money since we'll be living here for 30 years or more.

Window guys are like used car salesman, so I'm coming to the yard.

Any advice? Brands? Wood vs Aluminum clad vs vinyl clad?

Google Window E Store out of Texas. I found out about them several years ago and have now used them on two houses. They have a joint venture going on with Simonton Windows and make everything to order delivered in 14 days. Great quality and prices delivered to your door, no ct sales tax. I just did a river room all glass with 8 foot sliders that they helped me design
Very happy with them. Check their website out

 

[husky429]

Spoke to 2 diff contractors and both wanted to do new construction with flanges. Never asked why just went along.

Replacements seem much easier.

The difference in price isn't really that much for parts--they make a ton on the labor. Which makes me wonder if I should just suck it up, take a while longer, and do the full windows over time.

 

[Conndog]

I agree with your thinking. I don't think you will ever recoup the money back with energy savings. For us to do our whole house of 30 windows it was more because the older casement windows had broken knobs that couldn't replace and the windows wouldn't open. It has made a world of difference for us.

Another reason to put in new windows is they may be easier to clean like the tilt-in ones. Insulation improvement may be both reducing heat loss and reducing noise if you are close to traffic noise.

 

[tdrink]

I,m a restoration contractor. Have done dozens of whole house window replacement jobs. Usually either Marvin or Andersen inserts.

Both of those companies products have issues. The alternatives I have looked at have issues as well.

The sales pitches of the big replacement companies are disgusting. I have seen some of their crews and have not been impressed.

I am all for people doing their own work. It’s hard to find anyone who cares about your home the way you do.

But if you are unsure about whether to use inserts or new construction windows, you should probably consult with someone who has more experience. The difference in the installation process is night and day.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Replacement inserts, most likely. The frames aren't in bad shape at all. I'd need to do a bit more research on full-frames... flashing, nail flanges and such isn't something I've done in probably 15 years. Doable if I need to.

I'm not an expert or close to it in anything, believe me. I watch a whole lotta Youtube.

This is why I suggested looking at the glass surface area. The old replacements you lost a lot of glass compared to full frames. Now they make replacements with comparable glass surface area.

 

[HuskyCLT]

Definitely make sure you’re looking at warranties, and check to make sure it doesn’t void if you install yourself. Some require certain particularly licensed contractors install to keep the warranty. Argon gas in the window does help improve the U-Value of the window, and helps insulate. But I live in NC so U-Value may be more important down here with the hot sun. If the seal does break and you see any fog between the panes, that should be covered in the warranty for a free sash replacement for most quality windows.

Companies like Pella or Anderson do make excellent windows, but also offer builder grade window lines (such as at Lowe’s or Home Depot) and leverage their brand names, so beware if you’re going that route.

I had a period being one of those pushy salesmen as my first sales job. Hated it more than anything and couldn’t wait to move on - always felt like a scumbag. Most of those jobs are 100% commission and a one-call close so those people generally will be pushy. If any of you do to go that route, the company I worked for’s margins were built in to haggle down to a little under 40% off the original list price. We used SoftLite windows who were bought by Harvey - definitely quality and would recommend checking out. Just read Harvey was recently bought out too.

Good luck!

 

[husky429]

But if you are unsure about whether to use inserts or new construction windows, you should probably consult with someone who has more experience. The difference in the installation process is night and day.

That's the plan. My uncle ( carpenter and HIC) is comong over on Friday.

Overwhelming likelihood is we'll be doing new construction. If we're going to renovate as much as we are, it's probably worth it to get new frames, flashing etc. instead of putting lipstick on the pig. Plus I'm redoing all the casing inside and a few exterior anyways.

Frames are pretty old. Only a matter of time before there's water damage, and there probably is somewhere I can't se.

 

[NJHusky]

That's the plan. My uncle ( carpenter and HIC) is comong over on Friday.

Overwhelming likelihood is we'll be doing new construction. If we're going to renovate as much as we are, it's probably worth it to get new frames, flashing etc. instead of putting lipstick on the pig. Plus I'm redoing all the casing inside and a few exterior anyways.

Frames are pretty old. Only a matter of time before there's water damage, and there probably is somewhere I can't se.

Sounds like a sound plan. Do it once and do it right. We recently did an unplanned kitchen remodel because of a water leak while on vacation. The ‘might as well’ do this now since we r redoing it part of the remodel was almost as much as the repairs. Lol

Also taught me a valuable lesson about turning off water when u leave the house for even short trips.

 

[Kitaman]

I have to do the basement windows and am considering the whole house if I replace those. Weird how my windows are my most used items in my house but the most neglected/forgotten. I appreciate this thread.

Its been a while, but what makes a good window? Or are we basically talking installation and frames?

 

[husky429]

Definitely make sure you’re looking at warranties, and check to make sure it doesn’t void if you install yourself. Some require certain particularly licensed contractors install to keep the warranty. Argon gas in the window does help improve the U-Value of the window, and helps insulate. But I live in NC so U-Value may be more important down here with the hot sun. If the seal does break and you see any fog between the panes, that should be covered in the warranty for a free sash replacement for most quality windows.

Companies like Pella or Anderson do make excellent windows, but also offer builder grade window lines (such as at Lowe’s or Home Depot) and leverage their brand names, so beware if you’re going that route.

I had a period being one of those pushy salesmen as my first sales job. Hated it more than anything and couldn’t wait to move on - always felt like a scumbag. Most of those jobs are 100% commission and a one-call close so those people generally will be pushy. If any of you do to go that route, the company I worked for’s margins were built in to haggle down to a little under 40% off the original list price. We used SoftLite windows who were bought by Harvey - definitely quality and would recommend checking out. Just read Harvey was recently bought out too.

Good luck!

This is super helpful--40% is more than I would have expected.

I've heard that about the Andersen/Pella etc. at Home Depot. I'm looking to avoid and ideally use a local company even if it's a bit more expensive.

 

[alphasigko]

I need to replace a bunch of windows in the house I'm renovating with inserts. I'll do the installation myself and probably put in new trim inside and out while I'm at it. Energy-efficiency is a must even if it means more $. Not afraid to spend some money since we'll be living here for 30 years or more.

Window guys are like used car salesman, so I'm coming to the yard.

Any advice? Brands? Wood vs Aluminum clad vs vinyl clad?

Renewal by Anderson... A bit pricey, but they are pros, they get it done quickly and neatly, and the windows are great.