Talent trumps coaching but when combined...you get 12 National Titles

[hoophuskee]

2013 was stacked. They had 6 players who'd earn All American honors in college, 8 future WNBA players and the roster was loaded in terms of HS rankings.

In terms of college- Baylor was stacked in 2013 Griner may have been considered at the time the most dominant player ever in college at the time. And Sims was considered an off-the-charts pg. In fact Sims was considered so great that they put her on the 2014 World Cup team despite it being very doubtful she was that good vs the other pros. I believe she was put on, along with Stewart was that she was considered to take the mantle from Bird at a future date. Sims was considered that great.

And Brooklyn Pope coming out of h/s then had some college expereince was very highly regarded in terms of talent.

Baylor was a prior champion led by their superstars. The 8th best player on UCONN would have a hard time impacting Baylor’s 2 super players. In college it's about superstars with quality being better than qty. . Heck, quite a few UCONN fans on here still don’t believe if UCONN played Baylor that UCONN would have won. Baylor was considered a huge favorite to repeat. Do they think so because of Baylor’s bench?

Looking at Tennessee after 1985, the 5 titles Tennessee won they were led by 2 of the greatest college players ever. And looking at UCONN with Maya Moore, who would think that there was a better recruiting class that they would have traded with Maya and Lorin Dixon that year? The point is when you have a super player like Maya likewise when Baylor had a super player like Griner and add in Sims, that team’s talent because you could only play 5 players, was superior to UCONN for that year.

 

[Gael]

Kerry Bascom

Of Epping High School, is the only NH high school basketball player, female or male, who has scored 2,000 points in both high school and college.

 

[BobbyJ]

I'll defer to you and puppylove. I was thinking that Jen and kara were not "most talented" but more grit players that won POY honor not as much for being "most talented." The teams were just so good. . In part they didn't win the next 2 yaers vs the talented Tennessee. Might it have been forr example that Tenn was more talanted the 2 yaers they won? Though Kara's sr year the Shea Ralph iinjury was a killer. You'vee seen them more than I have. I yield. 😀

I agree with you on this part. Rizzotti was a good, talented player but not a Maya Moore level talent (who is?). What put her over the top was that she was a competitive maniac with no fear of anything. As for Wolters, I coached a couple of games against her Central Mass. AAU team in HS (Carla Berube was also on that team) and she could barely get up and down the floor and she was not very talented. But she was 6-7. Wolter's career and success was all made possible by the work she did and the physical transformation she went through at UConn. All credit to her.

 

[FanSince17]

Wicks and Rowe were 2 years post Alcindor and certainly not small ball. Wicks was 6'8" and Rowe was 6'7". Steve Patterson was the 6'9" center on the 1971 team. As for the Goodrich-Hazard backcourt and their 2-2-1 full court zone press- very small ball and maybe the best pressing team ever.

I was referring to the Wicks and Rowe team as being a team of Wooden's that arguably was not the most talented. Looking back, maybe it was just a weak year. I was a Notre Dame fan- Austin Carr was my favorite player. 3 best players from DC- Carr- Mackin, Catlett- DeMatha, Collis Jones- St. John's. They famously beat UCLA earlier in the season.

 

[SVCBeercats]

Just curious how highly rated was Kerry Bascom coning out of high school

In 1987 Kerry was selected as a Parade High School All-American. Bascom was Geno's first blue-chip recruit.

 

[BBallF]

I was referring to the Wicks and Rowe team as being a team of Wooden's that arguably was not the most talented. Looking back, maybe it was just a weak year. I was a Notre Dame fan- Austin Carr was my favorite player. 3 best players from DC- Carr- Mackin, Catlett- DeMatha, Collis Jones- St. John's. They famously beat UCLA earlier in the season.

Ok but even though I appreciate the reference it is not an untalented team. Wicks went #2 overall, Rowe went #11 and Patterson went #18 to the NBA. Henry Bibby became a NBA star so no I can't agree on that. I think you would be hard pressed to find a team that is comparable to the Diana 2003 and 2004 years.

 

[bballnut90]

In terms of college- Baylor was stacked in 2013 Griner may have been considered at the time the most dominant player ever in college at the time. And Sims was considered an off-the-charts pg. In fact Sims was considered so great that they put her on the 2014 World Cup team despite it being very doubtful she was that good vs the other pros. I believe she was put on, along with Stewart was that she was considered to take the mantle from Bird at a future date. Sims was considered that great.

And Brooklyn Pope coming out of h/s then had some college expereince was very highly regarded in terms of talent.

Baylor was a prior champion led by their superstars. The 8th best player on UCONN would have a hard time impacting Baylor’s 2 super players. In college it's about superstars with quality being better than qty. . Heck, quite a few UCONN fans on here still don’t believe if UCONN played Baylor that UCONN would have won. Baylor was considered a huge favorite to repeat. Do they think so because of Baylor’s bench?

Looking at Tennessee after 1985, the 5 titles Tennessee won they were led by 2 of the greatest college players ever. And looking at UCONN with Maya Moore, who would think that there was a better recruiting class that they would have traded with Maya and Lorin Dixon that year? The point is when you have a super player like Maya likewise when Baylor had a super player like Griner and add in Sims, that team’s talent because you could only play 5 players, was superior to UCONN for that year.

Baylor was stacked as well, fair observation considering how dominant Griner was. And yes, Sims was elite too in college. They were the only notable players who earned All American honors in college or had WNBA careers though.

At the time Baylor seemed like the more talented team, but looking back in hindsight I don't think that was the case, especially since we saw how good Stewart would become and how good she was in the post season. UCONN basically had the same roster as the undefeated 2014 team plus Kelly Faris who was fantastic as a senior in 2013. They didn't have the honors yet that Baylor/Griner/Sims had in 2013 but talent wise I'd consider them just as stacked, especially when you factor in how good Breanna Stewart was.


In regards to the last statement about super star players, I agree that great players are worth a lot when looking at team talent and are very important to create championship teams. Almost all of Pat/Geno's titles were led by all time great players. Coaching is immensely important but I think recruiting trumps all in women's college basketball.

 

[hoophuskee]

Baylor was stacked as well, fair observation considering how dominant Griner was. And yes, Sims was elite too in college. They were the only notable players who earned All American honors in college or had WNBA careers though.

At the time Baylor seemed like the more talented team, but looking back in hindsight I don't think that was the case, especially since we saw how good Stewart would become and how good she was in the post season. UCONN basically had the same roster as the undefeated 2014 team plus Kelly Faris who was fantastic as a senior in 2013. They didn't have the honors yet that Baylor/Griner/Sims had in 2013 but talent wise I'd consider them just as stacked, especially when you factor in how good Breanna Stewart was.


In regards to the last statement about super star players, I agree that great players are worth a lot when looking at team talent and are very important to create championship teams. Almost all of Pat/Geno's titles were led by all time great players. Coaching is immensely important but I think recruiting trumps all in women's college basketball.

Yeah I guess it's how we interpret 1 of the initial questions from the poster fansince17 said - "When did anyone win when they didn't have the best talent?"

You had mentioned from above "especially since we saw how good Stewart would become and how good she was in the post season. " I interpreted this differently in that talent is subjective as a comparison and sometimes it's not fully realized until after-the-fact; then a declaration is made.

Stewie was so far down the totem pole that she wasn't even BE Frosh of the year. She wasn't even Honorable Mention A/A. She only started one-third of her games her frosh year. The way she was performing that season before the game vs ND, there was no way many, many people would say she was so much more talented than Diggins whom was not only a super recruit 4 years earlier and regarded as superstar her sr year, that Stewie would outplay her so decisively.

In fact Stewart was thought of so little in that we can hear during the FF game vs ND when score was 39-30 that Holly mentioned that she spoke with Muffett, Muffett said the key to the game defending KML and then Holly said that Muffett felt that Stewart would now be held in check because Braker had foul trouble in 1st half and would now contain her in the 2nd half. We need to let that sink in that even the super coach Muffett was thinking; that Ariel Braker containing Stewart while Stewart was playing really well and more worried of KML. Ariel Braker. . . That’s how low Stewart was thought. So, while you mention that the next year UCONN was even stronger, I’m looking back at the prior year when Baylor was a champion in which their superstars should have been even much better. In addition to Stewart couldn’t even win FOY in her own conference along with this very season ND beat 3 times in which Diggins was a superstar.

For me – looking after the fact- yes sure. But at that moment in FF and overall looking at the season counting the start or even half-way, imo UCONN was not more talented if Stewart couldn’t even show she was better/more talented than the freshman, Lloyd, never mind the other teams superstars.

 

[FanSince17]

Yeah I guess it's how we interpret 1 of the initial questions from the poster fansince17 said - "When did anyone win when they didn't have the best talent?"

You had mentioned from above "especially since we saw how good Stewart would become and how good she was in the post season. " I interpreted this differently in that talent is subjective as a comparison and sometimes it's not fully realized until after-the-fact; then a declaration is made.

Stewie was so far down the totem pole that she wasn't even BE Frosh of the year. She wasn't even Honorable Mention A/A. She only started one-third of her games her frosh year. The way she was performing that season before the game vs ND, there was no way many, many people would say she was so much more talented than Diggins whom was not only a super recruit 4 years earlier and regarded as superstar her sr year, that Stewie would outplay her so decisively.

In fact Stewart was thought of so little in that we can hear during the FF game vs ND when score was 39-30 that Holly mentioned that she spoke with Muffett, Muffett said the key to the game defending KML and then Holly said that Muffett felt that Stewart would now be held in check because Braker had foul trouble in 1st half and would now contain her in the 2nd half. We need to let that sink in that even the super coach Muffett was thinking; that Ariel Braker containing Stewart while Stewart was playing really well and more worried of KML. Ariel Braker. . . That’s how low Stewart was thought. So, while you mention that the next year UCONN was even stronger, I’m looking back at the prior year when Baylor was a champion in which their superstars should have been even much better. In addition to Stewart couldn’t even win FOY in her own conference along with this very season ND beat 3 times in which Diggins was a superstar.

For me – looking after the fact- yes sure. But at that moment in FF and overall looking at the season counting the start or even half-way, imo UCONN was not more talented if Stewart couldn’t even show she was better/more talented than the freshman, Lloyd, never mind the other teams superstars.

I appreciate that the term talent is subjective. How about thinking about really good players. I would argue that Stewie is the definition of what talent is. He busted her butt because he wanted her to be an all-time great. As soon as she had a toe on campus, everyone knew about Stewie. How about when you got your pickup squad and you look around and you say we're gunna hold the court all-day. Do you want Jen Rizzotti next to you in the foxhole? That's talent. You know you're gunna win because of who your teammates are. Paige could settle the team down.

 

[hoophuskee]

I appreciate that the term talent is subjective. How about thinking about really good players. I would argue that Stewie is the definition of what talent is. He busted her butt because he wanted her to be an all-time great. As soon as she had a toe on campus, everyone knew about Stewie. How about when you got your pickup squad and you look around and you say we're gunna hold the court all-day. Do you want Jen Rizzotti next to you in the foxhole? That's talent. You know you're gunna win because of who your teammates are. Paige could settle the team down.

Are we arguing? If so, what’s our argument? After UCONN won in 1995, wouldn’t Tennessee fans say that players in 1996-1998 were foxhole players, and “know they were going to win,” especially with Holdsclaw? She was the #1 recruit just like Stewie.

Same with Griner, - she was regarded as change-the-game since she stepped on campus. And Diggins was just behind her as #2 in that class I believe. And leading up to that FF game, Diggins led Notre Dame to an unprecedented record of 6-1 vs UCONN of which 2 were in NCAA's I believe and injuries weren’t a factor.

So, my point was you can look at Tenn, Baylor and even Notre Dame, in which Tenn won 3 straight and Baylor was a former champ while Notre Dame was actually beating UCONN 6-1 in last 7 ,and they had to know that their superstars (and teamates) from early on were foxhole players/going to win too.