Syracuse fires Fine

[Vowelguy]

And so did the Syracuse Post-Standard. If you read the transcript of the tape, it's pretty damning.

Yeah, which makes it all the more bizarre that no one did anything then. Be very curious to hear Post-Standard and ESPN's explanation for that.

 

[upstater]

Yeah, which makes it all the more bizarre that no one did anything then. Be very curious to hear Post-Standard and ESPN's explanation for that.

What could they do? It was reported to the police (with a police chief that was an ex-Syracuse basketball player) and DA (very connected with Cuse bigwigs).

What do you expect them to do when the authorities brush it off?

It's apparent from his wife's words that Fine thought he was protected, a bigshot. Not only that, he apparently choked Davis in front of many witnesses at Manley Field House, and Davis threatened that he was going to let the cat out of the bag. Fine said, "Go ahead. Do what you gotta do."

Ms. Fine was one of the witnesses who called Davis a liar during the 2005 investigation by Syracuse University. You have to wonder what the investigators were thinking when they interviewed her and asked her those questions. I also have to wonder if Davis ever offered them the videotape. The school claims Davis never provided it, but who knows if he offered it and it might have been rejected.

A few years ago, when Graham Spanier at PSU was offered a tape of a conversation between a man who had been molested by a professor at PSU when he was a child, responded that he didn't want to hear the tape. Seems as though this is standard procedure in such situations, that people in charge do not want to see evidence. If you have evidence, go to the authorities... otherwise... see ya.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

What was the cause of Fine's termination? Leads me to believe someone found something?

 

[Vowelguy]

What could they do? It was reported to the police (with a police chief that was an ex-Syracuse basketball player) and DA (very connected with Cuse bigwigs).

What do you expect them to do when the authorities brush it off?

Uhhh .... they could report it.

Isn't that their job? To be a check on government, and powerful institutions?

 

[The Funster]

What could they do? It was reported to the police (with a police chief that was an ex-Syracuse basketball player) and DA (very connected with Cuse bigwigs).

What do you expect them to do when the authorities brush it off?

ESPN should have done what they did recently: make it public. My God, the only reason they made it public now was because after the Penn State scandal broke coaches-as-sexual-molesters stories are red hot. The Post-Standard probably didn't want to break it because they were convinced not to. ESPN probably didn't go public because they figured the story wouldn't have enough legs.

If the authorities brush it off, it's almost imperative that you break it yourself.

 

[upstater]

ESPN should have done what they did recently: make it public. My God, the only reason they made it public now was because after the Penn State scandal broke coaches-as-sexual-molesters stories are red hot. The Post-Standard probably didn't want to break it because they were convinced not to. ESPN probably didn't go public because they figured the story wouldn't have enough legs.

If the authorities brush it off, it's almost imperative that you break it yourself.

Good points.

 

[upstater]

What was the cause of Fine's termination? Leads me to believe someone found something?

The tape.

 

[ctchamps]

ESPN should have done what they did recently: make it public. My God, the only reason they made it public now was because after the Penn State scandal broke coaches-as-sexual-molesters stories are red hot. The Post-Standard probably didn't want to break it because they were convinced not to. ESPN probably didn't go public because they figured the story wouldn't have enough legs.

If the authorities brush it off, it's almost imperative that you break it yourself.

My wife and I agree with you. ESPN, in our opinion had a moral obligation to do more and didn't. I expect that other media outlets will latch onto this and the public outcry will be significant.

 

[RS9999X]

The Post Standard released a detailed account of the 2002 investigation. Corroboration was a big problem. They invested some serious time and money trying to get the facts straight.

Worth reading if you think the Post-Standard covered it up. If charges were filed they could run with that. Without charges and without corroboration they had nothing except doubt that the story was true.

http://blog.syracuse.com/opinion//print.html

 

[RS9999X]

If Laurie Fine had come out at the time and said "Yeah we were both sleeping with the guy. It was kink heaven!" then this would have gone public 8 years ago. Her denial didn't help advance the investigation and one of the others who denied in 2002 was Mike Lang the second accuser this time around

.>> Two Post-Standard reporters attempted to interview Laurie Fine at her home Feb. 10, 2003 about the taped conversation. She acknowledged she had the phone conversation with Davis. She confirmed portions of the tape are accurate, but denied saying other statements on the tape.

Laurie Fine suggested in that interview that Davis had taped her on multiple occasions and edited the recordings to create a phony tape. <<

Thne there was Davis' Mother : >> Cathy Pitts, said Thursday she didn't know about any of the allegations until he did an interview with ESPN in 2003. "I was very upset," she said of learning of the allegations then. "I wished I knew when he was little. I would have done something then. There was nothing I could do after the fact. <<

 

[freescooter]

Seems to me that the newspaper and ESPN were in a pretty difficult position. You can't just go with unsubstantiated rumors. Adn since this matter had been reported to the police who should have acted and the University which at least made some attempt to act, and nobody was able to get anyone to coroberate the accusations, they really couldn't do too much. You can't ruin a guy's life on the basis of what was little more than a rumor. If you suspect there might be something to the story, you just keep at it. To me the police are the ones who screwed this up, not ESPN, not the Post-dispatch, and not even Syracuse University. None of those other entities have the ability to condut the types of investigations that the Syracuse PD can and should have conducted.

 

[The Funster]

But when you have a legally taped, incriminating phone conversation, that's news. How ESPN didn't make that tape public is incomprehensible, IMO.

 

[upstater]

But when you have a legally taped, incriminating phone conversation, that's news. How ESPN didn't make that tape public is incomprehensible, IMO.

There's more to come.

Cuse fans are saying police and the DA knew not only about the tape but about cases against Fine.

 

[Vowelguy]

None of those other entities have the ability to condut the types of investigations that the Syracuse PD can and should have conducted.

True.
But one of the news business's jobs is to make sure public institutions do their jobs.

 

[The Funster]

There's more to come.

Cuse fans are saying police and the DA knew not only about the tape but about cases against Fine.

Wow. Then the next question would be if the police/DA pressured ESPN to sit on the recording and why ESPN would acquiesce.

 

[upstater]

Wow. Then the next question would be if the police/DA pressured ESPN to sit on the recording and why ESPN would acquiesce.

That's what I'm wondering.

ESPN not only exposes itself to lawsuits but also trouble with the authorities.

That doesn't absolve them however, but if they don't back Davis 90%, if they themselves have doubts, they may hold back.

 

[bpear1600]

I'm beginning to wonder how commonplace this type of perverted behavior in sports actually is. I've never had any personal experiences but two coaches from my youth were later found to have abused kids and I can think of a couple of other suspects. That's just in one town of 50,000 people.

 

[Deadrody]

True.
But one of the news business's jobs is to make sure public institutions do their jobs.

Ha! As if. Not sure when that stopped being their mission, but it was a long, long time ago. Especially if you think part of that mission is to be objective and not worry yourself over WHO is going to be impacted by your reports. Worse yet ? Actually trying to drive public opinion. The media is probably as corrupt or moreso than any other aspect of government-public interaction.

 

[SouthTampaBill]

When Devendorf and Melo aren't assaulting their girlfriends and Paul Harris isn't beating the crap out of women, here's ...... ................Bernie!!!!!

Syracuse fans you can burn in hell

 

[bmayuc]

When Devendorf and Melo aren't assaulting their girlfriends and Paul Harris isn't beating the crap out of women, here's ...... ................Bernie!!!!!

Syracuse fans you can burn in hell

Well, this may be a bit much...

 

[The Funster]

Francesa just had a guy on from the Post-Dispatch. He said that both the P-D and ESPN sat on the tape is because they had no corroboration and if they went with the tape it would have exposed them to a lawsuit. Evidently, since Laurie Fine never witnessed any abuse, anything she said would have been classified as hearsay. If Lang had corroborated Davis story, they could have run with the tape but Davis denied it up until Penn State broke.

 

[upstater]

Francesa just had a guy on from the Post-Dispatch. He said that both the P-D and ESPN sat on the tape is because they had no corroboration and if they went with the tape it would have exposed them to a lawsuit. Evidently, since Laurie Fine never witnessed any abuse, anything she said would have been classified as hearsay. If Lang had corroborated Davis story, they could have run with the tape but Davis denied it up until Penn State broke.

Never witnessed abuse? The tape has Fine witnessing abuse.

 

[huskyharry]

Wow. Then the next question would be if the police/DA pressured ESPN to sit on the recording and why ESPN would acquiesce.

Comes back to JB, though...if the police, DA & likely some higher ranking officials at SU were in collusion to cover it up then it would be extremely unlikely that JB would not know about it and even more damning to JB that he 100% took Fine's side over Davis's, not just recently with the inflammatory statements but more importantly when he concluded in 2002 that the allegations were crap and he left Fine in a position where othervchildren & young men were at risk for the following 9 years

 

[UConn5]

Francesa just had a guy on from the Post-Dispatch. He said that both the P-D and ESPN sat on the tape is because they had no corroboration and if they went with the tape it would have exposed them to a lawsuit. Evidently, since Laurie Fine never witnessed any abuse, anything she said would have been classified as hearsay. If Lang had corroborated Davis story, they could have run with the tape but Davis denied it up until Penn State broke.

That is laughable. ESPN wouldn't have been exposed to any lawsuit if they turned over a tape to the police. I would agree that if ESPN ran with the story based on a tape that suggested incidents that could not be corroborated by anything more than the statement of the accusers then they may be subject to a lawsuit...but explain to me how that is any different from the current situation??????? The Penn State scandal does not legitimize another person's accusations against someone else. Let me be clear, I am not questioning whether Fine did it or not, I am simply saying ESPN is full of bullshit. Nothing has changed factually since they first got the tape other than the Sandusky scandal.

 

[Edward Sargent]

I noticed in all of ESPNs stupid talking head shows (PTI etc) the Fine issue and their posible complicity were not discussed. It is very odd that ESPN sat on the tape and also that the DA and the SU police are in court over "data". Feds have now taken over the case.

 

[The Funster]

That is laughable. ESPN wouldn't have been exposed to any lawsuit if they turned over a tape to the police. I would agree that if ESPN ran with the story based on a tape that suggested incidents that could not be corroborated by anything more than the statement of the accusers then they may be subject to a lawsuit...but explain to me how that is any different from the current situation??????? The Penn State scandal does not legitimize another person's accusations against someone else. Let me be clear, I am not questioning whether Fine did it or not, I am simply saying ESPN is full of bullshit. Nothing has changed factually since they first got the tape other than the Sandusky scandal.

I agree, for the most part. However, one thing has changed. Because of the Sandusky scandal, Lang recanted his denials and had now corroborated Davis accusations. Supposedly, that corroboration gave ESPN enough to release the tape. I'm no lawyer but it still doesn't smell right to me. You still have an accuser and the accused's wife discussing the accusations. How did ESPN know that Laurie Fine never witnessed the abuse, making any comment of hers hearsay? Also the conversation also reveals that Davis and Laurie Fine had a sexual relationship. That fact alone makes the tape newsworthy. Couldn't they have just released those bits of the tape? Wouldn't that have forced national attention and thus, a more thorough investigation?

ESPN handled this pretty timidly, IMO. I can see why the lack of corroboration would have made them hesitate but I still think they should have found a way to make this tape public when they first received it.

 

[upstater]

That is laughable. ESPN wouldn't have been exposed to any lawsuit if they turned over a tape to the police. I would agree that if ESPN ran with the story based on a tape that suggested incidents that could not be corroborated by anything more than the statement of the accusers then they may be subject to a lawsuit...but explain to me how that is any different from the current situation??????? The Penn State scandal does not legitimize another person's accusations against someone else. Let me be clear, I am not questioning whether Fine did it or not, I am simply saying ESPN is full of bullshit. Nothing has changed factually since they first got the tape other than the Sandusky scandal.

This is wrong on several counts.

The ESPN explanations are totally plausible.

What's changed?

1. More accusers.
2. An investigation of Fine began a couple weeks ago PRIOR to the initial ESPN report.
3. The Syracue Post-Standard started reporting on this independent of ESPN. In fact, the PS reports have contained a lot more incriminating information than what you'll get on ESPN. For instance, ESPN claims there's never been a witness to the acts, yet PS has been reporting that Fine's wife witnessed him molesting Davis.

 

[upstater]

From what I've already heard, I think Boeheim has already sunk himself. He shivved his own legacy. In this respect, he's like Paterno (I'm not saying Paterno = Boeheim) but for me, the words and actions of both men are deplorable.

It's not necessarily Boeheim's cries of liar that get me, but how in the world does he never confront or ask Fine about the allegations? The university conducts a full-scale 4-month investigation. They interview Boeheim, and never once does he talk to Fine about it to gauge whether he has a possible abuser on staff? That's negligent.

This is how these things work. I have a strong feeling that people like Boeheim are advised to break the communication between them and their subordinates. They try to create plausible deniability, and that precisely is the reason Boeheim (supposedly) never talked to Fine about the allegations. You see this same thing when Graham Spanier, PSU's Prez, was offered a tape by a victim of abuse (not a Sandusky victim). He told the man to keep the tape, he didn't want to see it. The thing these people are most concerned with is not involving themselves legally in any mess which puts them in the position of sticking up for victim's rights or potentially violating an employee's labor rights. I realize that's a tough position to be in, but when the S hits , you end up losing your job.

Boeheim isn't at that point yet, BUT if it's found that Fine has been abusing other children, then not only does Boeheim have to resign but upper level administrators should as well, including possibly the President (though she wasn't around apparently during the 2005 investigation, she was no doubt aware of it).

"I didn't know" is not a defense in this day and age when you are a superior in charge of an employee who has been accused of something like this. It's your responsibility then not to sweep it under the rug, not to establish plausible deniability, but to try as best you can to ask all the questions, even if it means you're put in a tough spot, or if you ruffle some feathers, or if you find nothing at all.

I relate this back to Paterno only because I imagine him sitting in his office when McQueary comes in, and Paterno throwing up his palms, and telling McQueary, "Say no more. Stop right there. I'm going to report this to the head of campus police, and you'll tell him what you saw and heard."

 

[The Funster]

I agree upstater. Long time coaches at major programs wield a lot of influence and know everything they want to know when it comes to what happens within their program. I find it hard to believe that someone like a Paterno or a Boeheim or a Calhoun wouldn't know that something is going on unless they knowingly distance themselves from a particular situation. Plausible deniability just doesn't fly in those situations because it goes against the grain of the standard the coach has set for all other areas.

 

[upstater]

http://www.cnycentral.com/news/story.aspx?id=691743#.TtUP-0pOJ2o

The current police chief says the police were never informed of a tape.

But his timeline is open to questions.

1. According to the victim, his conversation with the cop lasted less than 5 minutes. He was told no investigation could be launched.
2. The DA at the time said they had procedures in place that required all sex abuse be investigated whether it was beyond the statute of limitations or not.
3. The current chief is washing his hands of what protocols and procedures were back then. Either he doesn't know or is keeping it hidden.
4. Between the time that the victim's friend called police with Fine's name and the victim's call, a month had elapsed. In that month, Duval, the police chief and an ex-Cuse bball player, had been informed about the accusations.
5. This begs the question: did the officer ignore the police procedures the DA said were definitely in place OR was his quick dismissal due to an order from his superior?

When you combine this story with the Feds moving in because the DA and Police went to war, and you combine that with the fact that this is an incestuous mess (the DA is buds with Boeheim and serves on boards together), and then you realize that when Cuse conducted an investigation, Boeheim never even asked Fine if the allegations were true, you see the cover up start to take shape.