Still No Bad Losses

[Palatine]

I get the frustration from last night's piss poor effort but the fact remains that we still haven't suffered a crippling loss to our resume at this juncture.

As long as we steer clear of the Yales and Houstons from a year ago we should be in a comfortable position (albeit not as high a seed as we were hoping) come Selection Sunday.

Not sure why some people are belittling Temple's team. They went on the road and took care of business vs us and Cincy and they will continue to be a tough team throughout conference play as per usual.

Losing to them at our place wasn't ideal but it is something that we can easily learn from and move on. Let's step off the ledge people - although I will join you on the ledge if we drop a 2nd home game vs Memphis this weekend

Any loss outside the RPI top 50 is a really bad loss for us. Temple is a terrible loss especially at home.

 

[tzznandrew]

I do agree with this, the post was more to the people who insanely say Temple is a season killing loss and we have no good wins at this point. Both are patently incorrect.

I know, which is why I wasn't responding to your post. Your point is generally correct.

 

[intlzncster]

You're making a huge mistake in caring about the RPI at this point in the season. It will start to matter only in mid to late February.

I wish we could have a moratorium on RPI posts until mid Feb. Nothing is more inconsequential at this point. No idea how it's going to shake out.

 

[Husky-AutoBot]

Husky AutoBot Automated Reply:
In the face of this Bad loss (yes Temple at home as 10 plus point favorite is a bad loss) we recommend that you watch a "good win"

 

[David 76]

I don't think the OP is saying that losing to Temple is not a bad loss. He is saying it is not like losing to Houston or Yale last year or other wtf losses we've had.
It hurt. It didn't cripple us. We have better wins and not as bad losses as last year.
What concerns me is, not that our season is over. but the lack of defense and the inconsistency of this team. We need everyone to play better defense, get Hamilton out of this funk and get Brimah back and that will be a significant improvement. Not as good as I thought we would be, but competitive.

 

[intlzncster]

We are in better shape than last year, that's for sure. The thing that concerns me is IMO Rodney is the only player who has had a big improvement from last years team. Dham has better numbers but it's because his usage is alot higher. His rebounding is the same, still great, passing about the same, as well as scoring, just not a reliable shot maker at this time. Facey seems the same, shown flashes but fouls too much and panics with the ball. Brimah, though he's injured, has improved his rebounding, but scoring and defense has stayed the same.

Gibbs seems to have regressed slightly, although I can't say I watched much of him last year. Can't really say about Miller because of the disparity of conferences, but his numbers now would probably equate to around the same he put up last year. We're not even halfway through the season so there's definitely time for improvement and im sure KO is gonna get the best out of these guys, hopefully it comes soon.

IMO, this doesn't make much sense Cardiac. The first three guys you mentioned improvement (Purvis/Facey/Brimah), but because they didn't do it completely, it doesn't count as improvement? I'l leave Brimah out of this as he's not a factor right now; and god forbid we start another Brimah thread.

Facey has absolutely improved in several facets, but because he didn't play much last year, he hasn't learned how to stay on the floor for extended periods yet. He's also being forced into a role, due to Brimah's absence, that requires even further adjustment on his part. Unfortunately, this takes time.

Hamilton has the ball more, and is playing PG on offense, there's no Boat to fall back on. Again, he hasn't quite adjusted yet. He needs to learn when to hold back, pass, or force the issue. This is something that has to come with experience, but he's new to the role this year.

I'm not sure you can claim anything about Gibbs if you barely watched him last year. He's playing a totally different/unfamiliar role with totally different (read more talented) players, so the numbers aren't going to be remotely the same. It's apples and oranges.

Miller is playing quite well, given the massive upgrade in competition. If anything, he's underutilized, but as a post, that's hardly his fault. There is zero way to compare his play this year to last year, given his role, his new teammates, and relative competition. Again, apples and oranges.

You seem to be making these points to fit your narrative, not crafting your narrative out of objective observation. Guys still have holes in their respective games, to be sure, and you'd wish they improved in some important areas (defense), but objectively, it's not as you say.

 

[cohenzone]

I've been traveling. I'm getting the impression from the BY that I have a certain basketball game I should erase from my DVR immediately.

 

[intlzncster]

I've been traveling. I'm getting the impression from the BY that I have a certain basketball game I should erase from my DVR immediately.

Yeah, don't bother. Unless you are feeling particularly masochistic. Just was the upcoming Memphis game and proceed from there.

 

[Connecticut34]

Yeah the RPI # stings a bit, but looking at our ranking by KenPom (#34) and ESPN's BPI (#40) I'm still a bit optimistic. A lot of basketball left to be played and we can turn this around.

Good post. I think the KenPom and BPI are better indicators; also 32 in Sagarin for USA Ttoday. people should be moving away from RPI.

 

[intlzncster]

Any loss outside the RPI top 50 is a really bad loss for us. Temple is a terrible loss especially at home.

What is the end of the season Top 50 RPI? Can you tell us? Because that's the only thing that matters.

 

[David 76]

Last year we lacked talent.
This year we lack defense and chemistry

 

[intlzncster]

Last year we lacked talent.
This year we lack defense and chemistry

We really need one less hole on defense. It's so tough having Gibbs and Hamilton on the defensive end at the same time. And we need Brimah back, despite protestations to the contrary. He can mitigate one of those holes.

It's no surprise to me they go on runs when Adams/Purvis are in the lineup, but not because of offense. To me, it starts on the defensive end, and those two clear up one of those holes I mentioned previously.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

IMO, this doesn't make much sense Cardiac. The first three guys you mentioned improvement (Purvis/Facey/Brimah), but because they didn't do it completely, it doesn't count as improvement? I'l leave Brimah out of this as he's not a factor right now; and god forbid we start another Brimah thread.

Facey has absolutely improved in several facets, but because he didn't play much last year, he hasn't learned how to stay on the floor for extended periods yet. He's also being forced into a role, due to Brimah's absence, that requires even further adjustment on his part. Unfortunately, this takes time.

Hamilton has the ball more, and is playing PG on offense, there's no Boat to fall back on. Again, he hasn't quite adjusted yet. He needs to learn when to hold back, pass, or force the issue. This is something that has to come with experience, but he's new to the role this year.

I'm not sure you can claim anything about Gibbs if you barely watched him last year. He's playing a totally different/unfamiliar role with totally different (read more talented) players, so the numbers aren't going to be remotely the same. It's apples and oranges.

Miller is playing quite well, given the massive upgrade in competition. If anything, he's underutilized, but as a post, that's hardly his fault. There is zero way to compare his play this year to last year, given his role, his new teammates, and relative competition. Again, apples and oranges.

You seem to be making these points to fit your narrative, not crafting your narrative out of objective observation. Guys still have holes in their respective games, to be sure, and you'd wish they improved in some important areas (defense), but objectively, it's not as you say.

I'm not trying to be negative I was just making an observation. On your point on Facey, yes he's been thrust into a bigger role but IMO he hasn't improved or weakened, just stayed the same. He's averaging about 4 pts 4.5 rebs this year, last year averaged 4 and 5. Also, on Gibbs, he was first team big east which is a better conference than our, obviously we have just scratched the conference schedule so it's premature, but I think it's fair to say at this point in time last year he was probably better. I do get what your are saying with Dham, he has improved, the only thing that worries me is his shooting, not sure if he'll ever be a high percentage shooter, but he has been better in most categories

 

[intlzncster]

I'm not trying to be negative I was just making an observation. On your point on Facey, yes he's been thrust into a bigger role but IMO he hasn't improved or weakened, just stayed the same. He's averaging about 4 pts 4.5 rebs this year, last year averaged 4 and 5. Also, on Gibbs, he was first team big east which is a better conference than our, obviously we have just scratched the conference schedule so it's premature, but I think it's fair to say at this point in time last year he was probably better. I do get what your are saying with Dham, he has improved, the only thing that worries me is his shooting, not sure if he'll ever be a high percentage shooter, but he has been better in most categories

Just a correction: Gibbs was 2nd team Big East, and some (a lot?) of that was because he was the entire offense at SH.

His brother Ashton was formerly 1st team.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

Just a correction: Gibbs was 2nd team Big East, and some (a lot?) of that was because he was the entire offense at SH.

His brother Ashton was formerly 1st team.

My bad haha, that's right, the amazing player that is Ryan Arcidiacono was firat team

 

[Silk31]

I don't think the OP is saying that losing to Temple is not a bad loss. He is saying it is not like losing to Houston or Yale last year or other wtf losses we've had.
It hurt. It didn't cripple us. We have better wins and not as bad losses as last year.
What concerns me is, not that our season is over. but the lack of defense and the inconsistency of this team. We need everyone to play better defense, get Hamilton out of this funk and get Brimah back and that will be a significant improvement. Not as good as I thought we would be, but competitive.

Precisely - people are missing the point. I was just as pissed and as dumbfounded with how that game played out as the rest of us were. It's not a crippling loss by any stretch of the imagination.

Losing to Yale last year was like "Oh duck we are in serious trouble." The when we lost to Houston it was like "Wow now we have no shot at an at large bid"

This loss is neither of those but couple it with other "bad" losses and that won't be good either. We need to take out some frustrations on Memphis this weekend. I'll be there for it - here's to hoping I'm not leaving Gampel thinking to myself "Oh duck we are in serious trouble."

 

[tzznandrew]

Precisely - people are missing the point. I was just as pissed and as dumbfounded with how that game played out as the rest of us were. It's not a crippling loss by any stretch of the imagination.

Losing to Yale last year was like "Oh we are in serious trouble." The when we lost to Houston it was like "Wow now we have no shot at an at large bid"

The crazy part was that, in theory, neither the Houston nor the Yale loss ended the season either. If they could have beaten Memphis and Temple to end the regular season, they would have been 22-12 (12-6) with some solid enough wins and an RPI in the mid-30s, and 8-2 in their last 10. They would have had a puncher's chance.

Instead they crapped those two games up and never had a shot.

 

[Silk31]

The crazy part was that, in theory, neither the Houston nor the Yale loss ended the season either. If they could have beaten Memphis and Temple to end the regular season, they would have been 22-12 (12-6) with some solid enough wins and an RPI in the mid-30s, and 8-2 in their last 10. They would have had a puncher's chance.

Instead they crapped those two games up and never had a shot.

Very true - so basically Temple ended our at large bid hopes last season in early March and now this year in January!...I kid, I kid

 

[Kitaman]

Any home lost in conference is a bad loss, especially to an unranked team. If we can't take care of our home against teams like Temple (not saying they are bad) we deserve the bubble talk come March.

 

[Woof 101]

Wow Temple loss is a crippling loss nowadays man this board is fun. If we made the tourney last year that would have been in spite of the Houston and Yale losses, if we make the tourney this year it won't be because we skated by on this loss.

If this ends up being the worst loss of our season then I say that's pretty good in terms of damage control. Do you see what other bad losses have occurred on the national level?...that hasn't happened to us just yet despite what you may think of Temple

Not sure of what you have seen this season so far but we were border line tourney eligible before this game due to the strength of the conference. This was a loss to a 10.5 point underdog and a very lack luster performance as a team and staff at home. No spitting match but something here that many others see is going over your head. Again just an opinion no malice meant. This was a very bad loss....

 

[dpross]

You need a strong dose of reality if you think a ranked team losing at home to .500 Temple (who just previously got crushed by Houston) won't be considered a "bad loss." Did it cripple and effectively end the team's shot at the tournament? Of course not. But if our guys do make it in, it will absolutely be in spite of this loss.

Yes,but remember, reality (as seen through our eyes)isn't the same as those spot on computer systems. Clearly you're wrong....not.

 

[David 76]

Not sure of what you have seen this season so far but we were border line tourney eligible before this game due to the strength of the conference. This was a loss to a 10.5 point underdog and a very lack luster performance as a team and staff at home. No spitting match but something here that many others see is going over your head. Again just an opinion no malice meant. This was a very bad loss....

Ranked #23 and a bubble team before this game? We have a lot to worry about. No need for hyperbole.

 

[Stainmaster]

Not sure of what you have seen this season so far but we were border line tourney eligible before this game due to the strength of the conference. This was a loss to a 10.5 point underdog and a very lack luster performance as a team and staff at home. No spitting match but something here that many others see is going over your head. Again just an opinion no malice meant. This was a very bad loss....

You cannot make any judgements about "tourney eligibility" at the beginning of January.