Still at the Top, or Just Below

[Surly1]

After watching Georgia pummel TCU for the national championship in football, the narrative quickly shifted to Georgia superseding Alabama as the number 1 program in football after consecutive titles. A few years earlier, it was Clemson ascending to the top of the throne.

I started to think what is the current narrative of women's basketball. Do most people think that SC under Dawn has assumed the mantle of the top women's basketball program, and if so, where does it place UConn. Gene has set an unattainable record and although UConn has not won a title since Breanna Stewart graduated, they have compiled an even more unfathomable record of reaching the Final Four for 14 years in a row.

I would argue that UConn is till the pre-eminent program in women's basketball still, despite SC's success and Stanford's run for the last 5 years. Before UConn reached the top, they had to topple Pat Summit's Tennessee teams. The crown was passed, begrudgingly I might add, and UConn has held its perch for the last 20 years. Before SC's current run, ND gave UConn all it could handle, but never replaced UConn at the top.

SC is clearly in the conversation as the top program in the country. If they add another title this year, they have a convincing argument as having supplanted UConn. However, I think a better metric to use rather than winning a title is recruiting. The top teams will always attract the best players. Dawn has done a fantastic job assembling talent and Stanford always seems to have a plethora of talent. We can acknowledge that the UConn coffers were a little lean for a couple of years, but Geno and the staff got the memo and have been beefing up the pipeline. Were it not for bad luck and a spate of injuries last season, this post might sound a bit different. In spite of the rash of injuries this season, UConn has been able to withstand the losses and with a change of fortune, has a more than realistic shot of reaching #12 this season. And, if it doesn't happen this year, UConn will be the prohibitive favorite and will counterpunch any argument that it has been displaced.

Lastly, they better give Caitlin Clark the POY to her this season because next year, a certain someone will be back and gunning for her second POY. And, if it isn't her, her partner riding shotgun will accept.

 

[Tonyc]

UConn is the standard that all WCBB aspire too.

 

[VA Huskie]

Did a little research to put some data to your question. I looked at the past 6 seasons (to include SC’s 1st NC). Didn’t include this year. Remember that there was no NC in the 2019-20 season.

SC: 178-25 (2 NC, 3 FF, 1 Elite 8, 1 Sweet 16)
UConn: 194-16 (0 NC, 5 FF)
Stanford: 177-34 (1NC, 3 FF, 1 Elite 8, 1 Sweet 16)

Depends on how one defines “still at the top”. Overall record, clearly we’re most dominant. SC and Stanford lost more games in 2 of those years than we lost in all 6. They’ve been to the FF in 3 of the 5 possible years. We’ve been there every year. But in the most important stat, SC has 2 NC’s, Stanford 1, UConn 0.

For me, I’d rather have the Gamecocks past 6 seasons than ours, ‘cause it’s all about the Championships. But on a day in day out… year to year basis - we’ve been the most consistent and most dominant team!

 

[Centerstream]

Did a little research to put some data to your question. I looked at the past 6 seasons (to include SC’s 1st NC). Didn’t include this year. Remember that there was no NC in the 2019-20 season.

SC: 178-25 (2 NC, 3 FF, 1 Elite 8, 1 Sweet 16)
UConn: 194-16 (0 NC, 5 FF)
Stanford: 177-34 (1NC, 3 FF, 1 Elite 8, 1 Sweet 16)

Depends on how one defines “still at the top”. Overall record, clearly we’re most dominant. SC and Stanford lost more games in 2 of those years than we lost in all 6. They’ve been to the FF in 3 of the 5 possible years. We’ve been there every year. But in the most important stat, SC has 2 NC’s, Stanford 1, UConn 0.

For me, I’d rather have the Gamecocks past 6 seasons than ours, ‘cause it’s all about the Championships. But on a day in day out… year to year basis - we’ve been the most consistent and most dominant team!

But we belonged to "weaker" conferences. Factor that into the conversation.
(Sarcasm.)

 

[Phil]

Yeah just check out the number of teams in the top 25.


The Big East only has two teams in the top 25,

while the SEC has, let's check, TWO teams in the top 25.

 

[Bald Husky]

UConn will always be the standard, with 11 NC and 14 straight . Those records, along with the 70, 90, and 111 game winning streaks will never be seen again by any program, including UConn. As some coaches have described our team, UConn is UConn. Period.

 

[Bone Dog]

This is just vague opinions, so feel free to disagree.

I think Tara has an easier time recruiting because a Stanford degree is a shinier bauble to dangle in front of hs kids and their parents. Dawn has been a terrific recruiter these past 10 years.

Geno has recruited well, too, but he has a tougher sell than Tara since it's only the program he can offer them. Beyond that, the University is not significantly different from any other state school. This means getting kids from outside the region is just not as easy.

This means Geno has to be seen to be the better coach in order to succeed, and I think there's also reason to think he really is. Dawn faces the same problem, and she seems to have solved it, as her recruiting record suggests. That is, USCar is not Stanford, which means it's the program and her coaching she's selling.

All that said, I think Geno is the better practice and in-game coach, among these three elites. I think more of his players leave more improved, more pro-ready, and with more resolve and self-confidence than happens with any other school.

 

[HopJim]

Good question to start a conversation but suggest a different phrasing. Relative to the top "program," UConn's record the past 10-20 years speaks for itself. No other school's accomplishments come close. If you asked who had the better team the past 2 years, South Carolina wins. With UConn's recruits coming in, coupled with our injured players healing, would like to ask again in 3+ years.

 

[Next 12]

UCONN will always be the No.1 team in Women's basketball irregardless of what UCONN's record is. 3 things make it so. Any player who plays for Geno 2,3,4 years is always a better basketball player and if the player is interested, more ready for the WNBA. Second, according to what Iv'e read, 100% of UCONN's scholarship players graduate. Third, With Geno and CD, Recruiting is an exact science to get the best players to fit in UCONN's complicated and stressful system and with the overseas recruits that has been on the team this year and next year, we will continue UCONN's legacy. Two recruits coming in next year have said they did not want to go to any other college, only UCONN was their choice. UCONN also still has the record of no two losses in a row which the last I heard was at 1069 . A record that keeps growing with every win. According to Google, over 10,000 days. GO HUSKIES!!!

 

[cabbie191]

This is just vague opinions, so feel free to disagree.

I think Tara has an easier time recruiting because a Stanford degree is a shinier bauble to dangle in front of hs kids and their parents. Dawn has been a terrific recruiter these past 10 years.

Geno has recruited well, too, but he has a tougher sell than Tara since it's only the program he can offer them. Beyond that, the University is not significantly different from any other state school. This means getting kids from outside the region is just not as easy.

FWIW: I know that there has been pushback recently in so far as US News & World Report’s college rankings go, but UConn is rated pretty highly. Out of 1,859 national schools, UConn ranks 67. Stanford is 3rd.

Out of 227 public universities, Connecticut is 26th. Six of the top 10 are in California.

 

[Bone Dog]

FWIW: I know that there has been pushback recently in so far as US News & World Report’s college rankings go, but UConn is rated pretty highly. Out of 1,859 national schools, UConn ranks 67. Stanford is 3rd.

Out of 227 public universities, Connecticut is 26th. Six of the top 10 are in California.

As an academic, I never look at rankings. It’s almost like an allergy. But it doesn’t surprise me that the main campus of the Connecticut university system should be ranked so highly. 26 is a really good number, especially given that some states have several top flight schools.

 

[Brewski]

@Surly1 I enjoy your posts. I wish you'd post more often.

Coach Geno has said many times that it always comes down to recruiting and he does it the hard way. With Geno, it's not just physical talent, you've got to always have the right (UConn) character as well. He's done the absolute best job of that style of recruiting over his career, and you'll see it on display next season after we get over these injury issues. In the meantime, let's go ahead and win #12 this season when we don't have Paige.

 

[LwrcasefaN]

All of those consecutive Final Fours places the program as arguably the best. Currently, SC is at the top, but I think they will be challenged sooner than later. UCONN is rapidly retooling.

 

[hoophuskee]

Do most people think that SC under Dawn has assumed the mantle of the top women's basketball program,

I would argue that UConn is till the pre-eminent program in women's basketball still, despite SC's success and Stanford's run for the last 5 years.

SC is clearly in the conversation as the top program in the country. If they add another title this year, they have a convincing argument as having supplanted UConn.

, UConn has been able to withstand the losses and with a change of fortune, has a more than realistic shot of reaching #12 this season. And, if it doesn't happen this year, UConn will be the prohibitive favorite and will counterpunch any argument that it has been displaced.

I don't think they have supplanted UCONN. As of this moment if you are going to count their 17-18 title team then you can’t dismiss their 24-10 S16 team of 18-19 that got completely wiped out by Baylor by 25 points.

Secondly, GA has won 2 titles in a row and will be favored number 1 next year. SC has won 1 in a row and this year isn't over yet. And next year it is extremely doubtful they will be pre-number 1.

Third, let' see what happens when they lose Boston. But even if they win this year they do NOT have a convincing argument because as mentioned unlike GA they probably won't be favored to win it all next year. So how can they be crowned "preeminent" when the very next year they aren't favored to win it all?

 

[Rb335]

It’s worth noting that even though Uconn is currently experiencing a title drought, they’ve made the final four each season. That consistency keeps us relevant even when we don’t win it all. A lot of other programs have risen up to snag one championship, then struggled through years that were somewhat pedestrian.

I think that’s what’s most impressive to me. Even in our down years, it’s never that bad. I do think the hunger for another championship is at an all time high though. Choosing Uconn is no longer a guaranteed championship.

 

[sun]

UConn has certainly benefitted from the transfer portal this year.
UConn is also a brand which is a lot like the good old US of A being a brand in the global market place.
They're both the strongest systems in the world but they've both somewhat weakened in stature because of detractors and the widespread distribution of wealth whether it's money or basketball talent.

It wasn't very long ago that UConn fans acknowledged that parity was good for the game and that its progress would not be able to be stopped.
Prior to that it started to become widely believed that UConn's monopoly of winning NC's was bad for the game.

And now we've come to the NIL stage where top players can receive money by selecting certain schools which can alter the future recruiting landscape.
Maybe in part that's why Geno has gone with more international recruiting where the players aren't as susceptible to the NIL influences.
That doesn't mean that international players will always make UConn a better team, and it won't be long before other schools follow the UConn pattern of international recruiting.

UConn can always glorify its history of accomplishment just like the Yankees, the Packers. the Patriots, the Lakers, the Celtics in other sports.
But dynasties always tend to eventually evoke an evil empire mentality, as something that fans root for to be defeated.

Coach Geno and the prestigious UConn alumi have always acted as fantastic ambassadors for the UConn WBB program which has always helped with the recruiting pipeline.
Success does breed more success.
Geno himself has developed somewhat of a cult of personality & mystique around the UConn program.
It remains to be seen what will happen when Geno eventually decides to retire whenever that might be.
In the meantime he and the players always battle hard to maintain UConn's status of being the gold standard of WCBB.
And there's so many schools and players that can challenge UConn for the national title in any given year.

I suppose that with the right transfer of authority from Geno to a new coach that his aura can somehow be transferred to keep UConn at the forefront of WCBB for many decades to come.
At this point it seems to be mostly like the big 3 US auto makers with GM, Ford and Chrysler being the main players.
But you know that there will always be others that are up & comers that will challenge the status quo, just like Honda in Indy car racing or Toyota in NASCAR.

What will happen in the future is anyone's guess.
I suspect that UConn's success will continue to live on but perhaps with slightly less intensity.
But not to the extent of the UCLA men under Wooden because the men's side is different than the women.

And I didn't intend to equate UConn WCBB with the greatness of the United States of America.
No power under God will ever supplant the glory of the United States of America, so help us God.