Stanford-Tenn today

[doggydaddy]

thanks, we are playing good help D. Are you talking this yr (re: us using 6 players) or other years?

So far this year.

Other years rotations don't impact this year.

 

[Scotter]

I have never thought a short rotation itself was ever a significant problem for UConn. The majority of the national championships were won playing 7 or fewer players, and I prefer short rotations particularly in college basketball. The cure is often worst than the disease when it comes to short rotations. You may feel differently, although it does seem a little strange to criticize a team for something that has been true for many national champions let alone other top teams. Not being talented enough within that short rotation is a far bigger problem for Stanford than the short rotation itself.

I was speaking from experience. Never said UConn didn't have a short rotation. Not sure why you brought Uconn into it. They don't have that problem this year.

Baylor plays a short rotation too.

 

[cardfan]

So far this year.

Other years rotations don't impact this year.

really? Doh. You said big games, but didn't quantify. We are using fewer people so this year due to some injuries and youth. It will be more spread out as the season goes on.

 

[doggydaddy]

I have never thought a short rotation itself was ever a significant problem for UConn. The majority of the national championships were won playing 7 or fewer players, and I prefer short rotations particularly in college basketball. The cure is often worst than the disease when it comes to short rotations. You may feel differently, although it does seem a little strange to criticize a team for something that has been true for many national champions let alone other top teams. Not being talented enough within that short rotation is a far bigger problem for Stanford than the short rotation itself.

I was just looking at the back to back games of 40 minutes for Ogwimike and then noted all the high minutes for a few other players.

I do think that fatigue can be an issue.

 

[Vowelguy]

After the game, the Tenn coach questioned her team's effort.

Hmm, where have I heard that before?


http://www.gostanford.com/sports/w-baskbl/recaps/122212aaa.html

 

[CompSci87]

It's true that only 6 players had more than 10 minutes this game. Against Baylor, 7 players did -- Taylor Greenfield had 29 minutes that game. I think Taylor may still be somewhat affected by the hard fall she took onto her chin two games ago. She had to be helped to the locker room and did not return that game, though she was able to play some against South Carolina as well as a few minutes against Tennessee.

Camp hopefully will get more minutes as the year goes on and she continues to round back into form after her injury that caused her to miss most of last season. You might remember she played a lot in last year's Stanford at UConn game (21 minutes, 14 points).

 

[doggydaddy]

It's true that only 6 players had more than 10 minutes this game. Against Baylor, 7 players did -- Taylor Greenfield had 29 minutes that game. I think Taylor may still be somewhat affected by the hard fall she took onto her chin two games ago. She had to be helped to the locker room and did not return that game, though she was able to play some against South Carolina as well as a few minutes against Tennessee.

Camp hopefully will get more minutes as the year goes on and she continues to round back into form after her injury that caused her to miss most of last season. You might remember she played a lot in last year's Stanford at UConn game (21 minutes, 14 points).

I do remember Camp. She had a great game against UConn last year. Glad she is coming back from her injury.

 

[choochoo]

After the game, the Tenn coach questioned her team's effort.

Hmm, where have I heard that before?


http://www.gostanford.com/sports/w-baskbl/recaps/122212aaa.html

This article is very telling that the mindset of Pat has been embraced by Holly. Put the ball on the rim ,Offensive rebound score and win. Never mind learning how to run half court sets. Superior athletes and rebounding wins games. Well holly the playing field is leveling out because other programs are offering the same package that only an elite few could offer a few years ago. Buckle your seat belts Lady Vols the ride could be very rough. You are no longer the it Team. You would think the couple of beat downs by Uconn would have changed this mentality, especially when we had our all American point guard Maria Conlon and her slow friends taking it to the house against the mighty Vols.

 

[choochoo]

Box score says it all ,8 assists on 26 made shots!!!!

 

[choochoo]

17 offensive rebounds on 32% shooting and 37 rebounds overall= Stamford 37 rebounds. Result , Tenn loses

 

[Bestiarius]

This article is very telling that the mindset of Pat has been embraced by Holly. Put the ball on the rim ,Offensive rebound score and win. Never mind learning how to run half court sets. Superior athletes and rebounding wins games. Well holly the playing field is leveling out because other programs are offering the same package that only an elite few could offer a few years ago. Buckle your seat belts Lady Vols the ride could be very rough. You are no longer the it Team. You would think the couple of beat downs by Uconn would have changed this mentality, especially when we had our all American point guard Maria Conlon and her slow friends taking it to the house against the mighty Vols.

Holly may have Pat's mindset, but she doesn't seem to have much of an influence on her players. One example is her inability to get Simmons to stop being the Wild Child. Her game management is also not up to par. She's struggling.

I think it's unrealistic to expect anyone to come in and pick up where Pat left off. There just aren't that many people with the skills of Pat or Geno. No doubt Holly is an okay coach, but that doesn't cut it on rocky top.

 

[doggydaddy]

Holly may have Pat's mindset, but she doesn't seem to have much of an influence on her players. One example is her inability to get Simmons to stop being the Wild Child. Her game management is also not up to par. She's struggling.

I think it's unrealistic to expect anyone to come in and pick up where Pat left off. There just aren't that many people with the skills of Pat or Geno. No doubt Holly is an okay coach, but that doesn't cut it on rocky top.

For many Tennessee fans, they were truly hopeful that it was more about the institution than Pat Summit. They were hoping that the same "defense and rebounding" type team could be successful.

What Tennessee showed the last 4 years is that this type of team can only go so far without a dominating player. And now with an unproven head coach and an inexperienced team, I can see them struggling against several SEC teams.

 

[cferraro04]

Holly may have Pat's mindset, but she doesn't seem to have much of an influence on her players. One example is her inability to get Simmons to stop being the Wild Child. Her game management is also not up to par. She's struggling.

I think it's unrealistic to expect anyone to come in and pick up where Pat left off. There just aren't that many people with the skills of Pat or Geno. No doubt Holly is an okay coach, but that doesn't cut it on rocky top.

Holly may have Pat's mindset, but she doesn't seem to have much of an influence on her players. One example is her inability to get Simmons to stop being the Wild Child. Her game management is also not up to par. She's struggling.

I think it's unrealistic to expect anyone to come in and pick up where Pat left off. There just aren't that many people with the skills of Pat or Geno. No doubt Holly is an okay coach, but that doesn't cut it on rocky top.

Why doesn't it cut it on Rocky Top? If what you say is true and there aren't that many people with the skills of Pat or Geno...then that would mean that Holly is like the other 363 Division one coaches not as good as Pat and Geno...but, arguably better than most given her years of experience on the bench with one of the best. Additionally, it isn't like TN has been to the final four in recent years...

 

[Vowelguy]

After the game, the Tenn coach questioned her team's effort.

Hmm, where have I heard that before?


http://www.gostanford.com/sports/w-baskbl/recaps/122212aaa.html

Wow, it gets worse.

Warlick: "… The whole game I was in disbelief."

"If we can compete against North Carolina, why can't we compete against Stanford? It makes entirely no sense to me."

Seriously? I try to give folks the benefit of the doubt, but that really seems like an odd statement. UNC and Stanford are not on the same planet.


http://www.govolsxtra.com/news/2012/dec/22/no-1-stanford-tops-lady-vols-73-60/?partner=RSS

 

[Icebear]

Because UNC is not that hard to compete against right now. Pretty simple.

 

[pinotbear]

..because, there really is something in the water in Knoxville. Call it koolaid, call it whatever, but, if a head coach of a prominent program can say with a straight face..

"If we can compete against North Carolina, why can't we compete against Stanford? It makes entirely no sense to me."
..then, they're either a gifted BS artist or clueless.

 

[Bestiarius]

Why doesn't it cut it on Rocky Top? If what you say is true and there aren't that many people with the skills of Pat or Geno...then that would mean that Holly is like the other 363 Division one coaches not as good as Pat and Geno...but, arguably better than most given her years of experience on the bench with one of the best. Additionally, it isn't like TN has been to the final four in recent years...

What I'm trying to say is Tennessee's reputation has made it easier to get top recruits, making Holly's job easier. There are many coaches who would love to be able to attract TN's level of talent, and would thrive in that environment. These coaches get more out of their less skilled players than Holly has accomplished with her highly ranked personnel. I'm also including Pat's waning years, where Holly was taking a larger percentage of the responsibility. I'd say she has the remainder of this year plus next year to show significant improvement. If it doesn't happen, I doubt if she'll survive.

So far, I'd say she is an average coach at best, perhaps below average factoring in her many years of experience. She's slow to react to game situations. Her interview comments are puzzling in that she expresses low expectations at times (we're working on the basics) and is highly critical of her players at others. It's confusing. She seems at a loss for what to do. The only smart thing she's done is to not speak of resuming play vs. Uconn.

 

[UConnCat]

Wow, it gets worse.

Warlick: "… The whole game I was in disbelief."

"If we can compete against North Carolina, why can't we compete against Stanford? It makes entirely no sense to me."

Seriously? I try to give folks the benefit of the doubt, but that really seems like an odd statement. UNC and Stanford are not on the same planet.


http://www.govolsxtra.com/news/2012/dec/22/no-1-stanford-tops-lady-vols-73-60/?partner=RSS

In fairness, I think Holly used the word "compete" to mean playing with intensity and effort which she believed were lacking yesterday. She obviously recognizes that UNC and Stanford are vastly different opponents, but effort and intensity are things players can control and she's questioning why they weren't there yesterday. It's a fair question. There were certainly reasons why the effort and intensity should have been greater against Stanford, high among them Stanford's #1 ranking.

 

[cardfan]

This article is very telling that the mindset of Pat has been embraced by Holly. Put the ball on the rim ,Offensive rebound score and win. Never mind learning how to run half court sets. Superior athletes and rebounding wins games. Well holly the playing field is leveling out because other programs are offering the same package that only an elite few could offer a few years ago. Buckle your seat belts Lady Vols the ride could be very rough. You are no longer the it Team. You would think the couple of beat downs by Uconn would have changed this mentality, especially when we had our all American point guard Maria Conlon and her slow friends taking it to the house against the mighty Vols.

Excellent points. The Vols will continue to struggle until they run an offense. Holly said they were never in it yesterday. I thought the Vols' pace and energy was bad in the first half and didn't pick it up until 8 min left in the game. Even after slow starts, Pat's teams came out on fire after halftime. They took too long to adjust or respond yesterday, which is on the coaching staff.

They haven't been "the" or "a" it Team since Parker graduated. Even when Parker was there, they beat teams with defense (stealing the ball by climbing and grabbing players), fast breaks, and rebounding. They don't have a game changer type of player, so the sum of their parts do not equal a good team because they don't run an offense.

 

[Husky68]

In fairness, I think Holly used the word "compete" to mean playing with intensity and effort which she believed were lacking yesterday. She obviously recognizes that UNC and Stanford are vastly different opponents, but effort and intensity are things players can control and she's questioning why they weren't there yesterday. It's a fair question. There were certainly reasons why the effort and intensity should have been greater against Stanford, high among them Stanford's #1 ranking.

Poor performance isn't always "lack of effort and intensity", this sounds like coaching excuses. Tenn had 17 offensive rebounds vs. Trees 26 defensive - so Tenn seems like they were pretty intense rebounding. Standord shot 47% which is good, but they are a good shoting team. Tenn had ten more shots with same number of FF's. These are all indications that didn't lose TO battle (were about the same) which indicates effort to me.

Losing teams blame intensity. Winning teams play smart/well and are good enough to win. Tenn has two problems - don't play smart and are not good enough (for Stanfore/Baylor type teams); has nothing to do with intensity. Will soon see if good enough vs. next rung of teams (Georgia - USCe), if not then Tenn could approach their Ball State year.

When was last time you heard player say "we didn't lose 'cause of lack of intensity; we lost 'cause: coach plays wrong players, coach has wrong scheme, we aren't as good as other team, Sally takes stupid shots, etc."; it's always "intensity".

 

[arty155]

...sounds like coaching excuses... Losing teams blame intensity... don't play smart and are not good enough (for Stanfore/Baylor type teams); has nothing to do with intensity...

Since the most fundamental responsibilities of a leader are to ‘lead, teach, correct, care for, and motivate’ every day…

…Hearing “lack of motivation” is any organization’s problem is OK initially when the leadership is assessing it’s way forward. But the same leaders complaining repeatedly about a lack of effort is a red flag… a red flag either of the leadership’s failure to deal with its most fundamental responsibility of ‘motivation,’ or their denial/inability to understand other true reasons for failure.



“There are no bad regiments, only bad colonels" – Napoleon

 

[Vowelguy]

In fairness, I think Holly used the word "compete" to mean playing with intensity and effort which she believed were lacking yesterday. She obviously recognizes that UNC and Stanford are vastly different opponents, but effort and intensity are things players can control and she's questioning why they weren't there yesterday. It's a fair question. There were certainly reasons why the effort and intensity should have been greater against Stanford, high among them Stanford's #1 ranking.

I didn't see the game, and I've heard no specific examples of how TN lacked "intensity." It just seems the explanation every time TN loses, to the point that it almost appears synonymous with "performance". And I argue that neither are unrelated to the opponent.

 

[msf22b]

-I didn't see the game, but in recent games, UTenn was running more plays and had a semblance of an offensive.

-I thinks its unfair and unwarranted for the 'yard' to be all over Holly's coaching, seems to me she's doing a pretty good job.
Not ready for prime-time; perhaps...having trouble beating Stanford or Baylor? I'll be a lot more smug after we accomplish that feat. I'd say (especially after the opening disaster) that they're doing as well or better than expected to date.

 

[doggydaddy]

-I didn't see the game, but in recent games, UTenn was running more plays and had a semblance of an offensive.

I haven't seen any of this. I am beginning to think it's just propaganda put out there by Tennessee fans and picked up by others as fact.

-I thinks its unfair and unwarranted for the 'yard' to be all over Holly's coaching, seems to me she's doing a pretty good job.

Based on what? And they also lost to Chattanooga. They are a poor shooting poor passing team. Is all of that on the players? Or does the coach get some blame?

Not ready for prime-time; perhaps...having trouble beating Stanford or Baylor? I'll be a lot more smug after we accomplish that feat.

You are comparing UConn to Tennessee? You're kidding, right?

I'd say (especially after the opening disaster) that they're doing as well or better than expected to date.

They have as good a roster of HS AA's as anyone. Not sure how they are doing better than expected now.

 

[msf22b]

Doggy commented on my post (his is in bold)
Doggy commented on my post
-I thinks its unfair and unwarranted for the 'yard' to be all over Holly's coaching, seems to me she's doing a pretty good job.

Based on what? And they also lost to Chattanooga. They are a poor shooting poor passing team. Is all of that on the players? Or does the coach get some blame?​

After the Chattanooga disaster, Holly won seven in a row including two to top-twenty teams as of this week and a Miami team that received votes. I would characterize that as doing a pretty good job.
Not ready for prime-time; perhaps...having trouble beating Stanford or Baylor? I'll be a lot more smug after we accomplish that feat.

You are comparing UConn to Tennessee? You're kidding, right?​

I am certainly not comparing UConn to Tennessee but we are yet to play Stanford and Baylor and it is not outside the relm of possibility that we lose both games (as unlikely as that is). Would that put us on the Tennessee level ? No, but we'd be relegated to a lower group until we proved ourselves by defeating Notre Dame, the 2-3 or 4 times we played them and beating the top teams in the NCAA's​

The point I am making is that we have a small group of superior teams and a bunch of good ones, we killed Purdue and since then they've thrived​

I'd say (especially after the opening disaster) that they're doing as well or better than expected to date.​

 

[Coler]

I'm interested to see how Tennessee plays against Rutgers. Our scoring defense is 19th in the nation by only allowing 49 points a game, where Tennessee is 2nd in PPG.

Our defense has improved greatly these past few weeks, and hopefully we can buy enough shots to outscore them.

 

[Bestiarius]

I'm interested to see how Tennessee plays against Rutgers. Our scoring defense is 19th in the nation by only allowing 49 points a game, where Tennessee is 2nd in PPG.

Our defense has improved greatly these past few weeks, and hopefully we can buy enough shots to outscore them.

Tennessee is now 3rd in PPG, Uconn having just passed them. Hope Rutgers continues the trend for TN.

 

[Husky68]

I'm interested to see how Tennessee plays against Rutgers. Our scoring defense is 19th in the nation by only allowing 49 points a game, where Tennessee is 2nd in PPG.

Our defense has improved greatly these past few weeks, and hopefully we can buy enough shots to outscore them.

Think the #2 in scoring was before Baylor and Stanford. With Rutgers and USCe soon to come, expect scoring will be down quite a bit.

 

[dtbtbtb]

I'm interested to see how Tennessee plays against Rutgers. Our scoring defense is 19th in the nation by only allowing 49 points a game, where Tennessee is 2nd in PPG.

Our defense has improved greatly these past few weeks, and hopefully we can buy enough shots to outscore them.

Unfortunately in the past C Viv had no idea how to beat Pat coached TN. Hopefully she'll do better against Holly. I'm tired to root for RU whenever they play TN only to see them loss time and time again

 

[doggydaddy]

Doggy commented on my post (his is in bold)​

Doggy commented on my post​

-I thinks its unfair and unwarranted for the 'yard' to be all over Holly's coaching, seems to me she's doing a pretty good job.​

​

Based on what? And they also lost to Chattanooga. They are a poor shooting poor passing team. Is all of that on the players? Or does the coach get some blame?​

After the Chattanooga disaster, Holly won seven in a row including two to top-twenty teams as of this week and a Miami team that received votes. I would characterize that as doing a pretty good job.​

Not ready for prime-time; perhaps...having trouble beating Stanford or Baylor? I'll be a lot more smug after we accomplish that feat. ​

​

You are comparing UConn to Tennessee? You're kidding, right?​

I am certainly not comparing UConn to Tennessee but we are yet to play Stanford and Baylor and it is not outside the relm of possibility that we lose both games (as unlikely as that is). Would that put us on the Tennessee level ? No, but we'd be relegated to a lower group until we proved ourselves by defeating Notre Dame, the 2-3 or 4 times we played them and beating the top teams in the NCAA's​

The point I am making is that we have a small group of superior teams and a bunch of good ones, we killed Purdue and since then they've thrived​

​

I'd say (especially after the opening disaster) that they're doing as well or better than expected to date.​

Considering their roster of McD's and highly ranked HS players, beating UNC, GTech, Miami and Texas was expected. Losing to Chattanooga? Not expected. And how they lost to Baylor and then Stanford? Not good. I don't see a cohesive team. That is on Warlick. I'm not impressed. Just read her comments about her team.

I think that fans have a right to comment on the Stanford and Baylor games even if their team hasn't played them yet. It's not about being smug. It's about discussing how Tennessee did.