Someone calls out the SEC perception machine

[Santini35]

http://www.thepostgame.com/commenta...sto-southern-secession-chuck-thompson-sec-bcs

 

[Carl Spackler]

That article should be required reading assignment for every fan, of every college football program in the country. There will be a quiz here on Friday for all boneyard regulars. So read up.

BTW: Roy Kramer, was a major contributor to the feasiblity report that was commissioned by the UConn BOT for the 1-A football upgrade - in 1996. One of Kramer's conlusions, 15 years ago, was that UConn was very similar to the SEC athletic programs, very much just like and SEC school when it came to athletics support and competition level, and that the only concern about upgrading, was going to be our affiliation with a conference who's parochial interests would supercede and at the same time, undermine our own. That was 1996, and the report was read by the UConn BOT, prior to the offcial vote passing in 1997.

Nice find.

ESPN really took a turn for the worse coming under Disney management. College sports, are not just entertainment, and can't be manipulated as entertainment industry does with scripted production, movies, and television production, and shows, etc. Live sports are unscripted, and unlike professional sports,entire communities all over the county are invested in their collegiate sports,and fans don't like their sports programs to get dumped on, so that Disney world can squeeze every cent out of their investments for profit.

 

[huskymedic]

... fans don't like their sports programs to get dumped on, so that Disney world can squeeze every cent out of their investments for profit.

...except when Disney is part of the fans retirement 401K or pension plans .

 

[Adios]

One of Kramer's conlusions, 15 years ago, was that UConn was very similar to the SEC athletic programs, very much just like and SEC school when it came to athletics support and competition level, and that the only concern about upgrading, was going to be our affiliation with a conference who's parochial interests would supercede and at the same time, undermine our own. That was 1996, and the report was read by the UConn BOT, prior to the offcial vote passing in 1997.

B1G, here we come!

 

[ZooCougar]

I think I want to order that book. I'm not gonna lie though. SEC football is a great spectacle in person.

 

[freescooter]

SEC football is a great spectacle, but it isn't great football. I've been arguing for years that it is far from "the best." There are a handful of teams that are very good, and the media types who have a vote in the polls absolutely vote for SEC teams. Not to say there aren't very good teams, but say what you want, Alabama =-LSU game 1 was awful...almost pitiful football. The point on the rankings is right on too. A Big East team loses and it drops 10 or more spots in the rankings. An SEC team loses and it drops maybe 3 worst case.

As a side note, why do people celebrate Robert E Lee and all those southerner generals like they were heroes? They lost and they were traitors to boot...how come nobody gets that? In most parts of the world they would have been hanged at best.

 

[uconnfan68]

As a side note, why do people celebrate Robert E Lee and all those southerner generals like they were heroes? They lost and they were traitors to boot...how come nobody gets that? In most parts of the world they would have been hanged at best.

because the war never ended for some of them...

 

[Waquoit]

Best stat:

Witness the record since the start of the BCS era in 1998:
SEC vs. Big East bowl game: 3-8

 

[UConnDan97]

To be fair, I think the SEC is overrated, but not by much. The one thing that boosts their perception more than any tv trick is the fact that they have won the big game on the big stage.

I'm not referring to last year, which was a farce (It should have been Okla St. in that game). But every time they go up against an Ohio State, etc., for the championship, they win the game in impressive fashion. The bottom part of their league is much weaker than people wish to talk about, but as we in the Big East know, parity will get you nowhere.

The one big thing I took from the article is not how overrated the SEC is, but how underrated the Big East is!! How many people would have guessed a Big East winning record against the SEC, including some of our own fans? And that is the issue that we have to solve...

 

[Chin Diesel]

Until teams start beating SEC teams for the national championship and in BCS games, they get to brag.

Don't like it? Other conferences have to start winning the high level bowl games and BCS games.

Plus, no other conference can match the game day atmospheres across the board. Ole Miss sucks almost every year and they still draw almost 60K every game and have some of the best tailgating anywhere in the country.

 

[uc1974]

The passage is spot on and it's nice to see someone gets it. I won't try to explain why Robert E. Lee is well thought because many of you won't get it. I will say that my great great grandfather enlisted in the 6th Va. Cavalry (with his own horse) the day Va. seceded in April 1861 and he was at Appomattox four years later. It was his duty and he did what he felt was the right thing. I will simply posit the following: joining the US seems to be like the Hotel California. Apparently, once you're in you don't get to leave, even if the majority don't want to stay. It's OK to grab other territory (see Kingdom of Hawai'i) by overthrowing its lawful government. It's OK to support secession elsewhere (South Sudan) but we're just special. Just sayin'.

 

[Husky1964]

Been to 5 Husky bowl games!!! But that THRASHING in Birmingham of the Gamecocks was extra special. Taking a knee to not further embarrass them at game's end was the Bomb!!!!!!!!!! So we own one of the 3 wins over the SEC. What are the other 2??

 

[CL82]

SEC football is a great spectacle, but it isn't great football. I've been arguing for years that it is far from "the best." There are a handful of teams that are very good, and the media types who have a vote in the polls absolutely vote for SEC teams. Not to say there aren't very good teams, but say what you want, Alabama =-LSU game 1 was awful...almost pitiful football. The point on the rankings is right on too. A Big East team loses and it drops 10 or more spots in the rankings. An SEC team loses and it drops maybe 3 worst case.

As a side note, why do people celebrate Robert E Lee and all those southerner generals like they were heroes? They lost and they were traitors to boot...how come nobody gets that? In most parts of the world they would have been hanged at best.

Actually, people celebrate Robert E. Lee and some southern generals because they won, at least early on, against a theoretically superior opponent. Lee was a good tactician, at least until he overplayed his hand at Gettysburg. You can argue, however, that some of that success was equally due to timid Union generals. Once Grant came aboard in the east, things changed as he recognized that the south couldn't sustain a war of attrition as long as the north could. Lee, and Davis, weren't hanged because Lincoln wisely realized that making martyrs of them weren't in the best interests of the country.

 

[SAMCRO]

Been to 5 Husky bowl games!!! But that THRASHING in Birmingham of the Gamecocks was extra special. Taking a knee to not further embarrass them at game's end was the Bomb!!!!!!!!!! So we own one of the 3 wins over the SEC. What are the other 2??

It's 4 wins if you count WVU over UGa (and if you don't count that b/c WVU is outta the BE, keep in mind UCF over UGa in a bowl game in 2010)

Cinci beat Vandy in the Liberty Bowl last season
Pitt beat Kentucky in a bowl for the 2010 season
UConn beat USCe in the Pizza Bowl for the 2009 season
Florida beat Cinci in the Sugar Bowl for the 2009 season
WVU beat UGa in the Sugar Bowl for the 2005 season (and it was plated in Georgia that year due to Katirna).

 

[Adios]

If the SEC is 3-8 against us in bowl games, that would mean WE have 8 wins.

 

[Carl Spackler]

If the SEC is 3-8 against us in bowl games, that would mean WE have 8 wins.

DOH!

 

[ZooCougar]

Actually, people celebrate Robert E. Lee and some southern generals because they won, at least early on, against a theoretically superior opponent. Lee was a good tactician, at least until he overplayed his hand at Gettysburg. You can argue, however, that some of that success was equally due to timid Union generals. Once Grant came aboard in the east, things changed as he recognized that the south couldn't sustain a war of attrition as long as the north could. Lee, and Davis, weren't hanged because Lincoln wisely realized that making martyrs of them weren't in the best interests of the country.

The answer is Jubal Early and the "Lost Cause" movement. After the war, the South had better PR. After the war they portrayed their wartime leaders as dashing battlefield heroes who displayed uncommon valor in an unwinnable war. They also spent a great deal of time scapegoating Longstreet as an insubordinate sloth. Teddy Roosevelt and Winston Churchill considered Lee to be one of the "Great Captains of History". There are whole books on the topic. This is part of why you still see euphemistically quaint portraits of Robert E. Lee reading to children by the fire, presumably at Christmas time. You'll also see alot of references to so called "black confederates", which has been debunked time and time again.

Davis should have been hanged. Lee and Longstreet were critical personalities in reconciliation. Lee saw the south as a defeated people and defeated people are supposed to conduct themselves with honor. Longstreet eventually became a Republican and was a political buddy of President Grant. Mosby had a similar experience, and together they were ostracized by most of the South. I think if Stonewall Jackson had lived, he would have been in the Longstreet/Mosby camp as well and probably would have viewed Jubal Early as distasteful.

 

[Waquoit]

As a side note, why do people celebrate Robert E Lee and all those southerner generals like they were heroes? They lost and they were traitors to boot...how come nobody gets that? In most parts of the world they would have been hanged at best.

That they weren't hanged is a true example of American Exceptionalism.

 

[freescooter]

Until teams start beating SEC teams for the national championship and in BCS games, they get to brag.

Don't like it? Other conferences have to start winning the high level bowl games and BCS games.

Plus, no other conference can match the game day atmospheres across the board. Ole Miss sucks almost every year and they still draw almost 60K every game and have some of the best tailgating anywhere in the country.

That's true, but the problem he identifies is that the system is jury-rigged to insure that the SEC gets a team in there every year. the problem overall is that the BCS, and a 4 team playoff has the same one by the way, is weighted toward better known leagues and teams. It is very tough for an unbeaten team from a less well regarded league to "out rank" one with the same record from the better known leagues. Last year was actually a great example. Oklahoma State or Alabama? they had identical records. Ok State lost at Iowa state in an emotional game (Iowa State was remembering their womens hoop coach who had been killed in a plane crash that week). Alabama lost at home to LSU. But Ok state is generally viewed as Oklahoma"s "little brother." they had zero chance to be selected over the Tide. Had it been Oklahoma, it is possible the outcome would have been different. Had it been Texas, it might well have been. But Oklahoma State? No way.

 

[metsfan2323]

There is a free online series of Civil War lectures (an entire semester) on youtube and Itunes by Yale professor David Blight that I thought were outstanding.

The historical treatment of Grant and Lee is a very interesting topic. In the 20 years after the civil war Grant was treated as the hero and genius general and then slowly the historical record started to change. Grant became a drunk and Lee became the hero. The historical record can be changed in this country by a successful marketing campaign and a committed well financed special interest. Many will even argue today that the Civil War was not about slavery, which is like saying the sky is not blue.

 

[Kgun7]

Question #1 - Any Chance Mike Aresco was a contributor to the creation of the SEC perception?

Question # 2 - Can he do something similar for the Big East?

 

[Kgun7]

There is a free online series of Civil War lectures (an entire semester) on youtube and Itunes by Yale professor David Blight that I thought were outstanding.

The historical treatment of Grant and Lee is a very interesting topic. In the 20 years after the civil war Grant was treated as the hero and genius general and then slowly the historical record started to change. Grant became a drunk and Lee became the hero. The historical record can be changed in this country by a successful marketing campaign and a committed well financed special interest. Many will even argue today that the Civil War was not about slavery, which is like saying the sky is not blue.

Civil War Generals??? ... give the boneyard almost any topic (except UCONN football) and it won't take long before you see intelligent, interesting, and educational posts!

 

[Jax Husky]

I will agree that the bottom 7 or so of the SEC is generally overrated, and that those teams aren't really any better than 3-12 of any other conference. I think the SEC's Top 4-5 teams though, are typically VERY good teams. A lot of those Bowl matchups are pitting some conference's #2-3 team vs. the SEC's #6-10 teams. The "depth" of the SEC may be overrated in any given year, but that doesn't mean it isn't still the best conference over the last decade to me. I am biased though. I agree that the BE has been terribly underrated for a long time.

 

[Waquoit]

There is a free online series of Civil War lectures (an entire semester) on youtube and Itunes by Yale professor David Blight that I thought were outstanding.

I can second that. If there's any better freebie on iTunes please let me know. The lecture that describes the money being made in Richmond due to the slave trade is incredible.

 

[ZooCougar]

The perception of Lee changed in large part due to the Lost Cause movement. The Lost Causers were also the people who argued that argued that war wasn't about slavery in order to cast their movement in a more palatable light. I think some of these men were opposed to slavery, but were looking for a way to rationalize their actions.

There is a free online series of Civil War lectures (an entire semester) on youtube and Itunes by Yale professor David Blight that I thought were outstanding.

The historical treatment of Grant and Lee is a very interesting topic. In the 20 years after the civil war Grant was treated as the hero and genius general and then slowly the historical record started to change. Grant became a drunk and Lee became the hero. The historical record can be changed in this country by a successful marketing campaign and a committed well financed special interest. Many will even argue today that the Civil War was not about slavery, which is like saying the sky is not blue.