Somebody Muzzle Mark Emmert

[Dooley]

Man, some good stuff coming out of the trial now with the inept Mark Emmert on the stand. Here are a few classics...

Mark Schlabach ‏@Mark_Schlabach 26m
Emmert just fumbled. Said NCAA rules regarding amateurism have changed but never wavered in core of being "full time athlete"

TheUConnBlog ‏@TheUConnBlog 24m
Guys Mark Emmert is on the stand. And he's calling middle schoolers student-athletes, and saying he joined the NCAA to impact education

Brett McMurphy ‏@McMurphyESPN 7m
RT @Andy_Staples: Emmert says he doesn’t have a vote on Division I board. The sound you hear is the eye roll coming from State College

 

[Dooley]

Andy Staples ‏@Andy_Staples 3m
Pomerantz asks what would happen if some leagues allowed players to sell NIL and some didn't. Emmert says they wouldn't play each other.

Andy Staples ‏@Andy_Staples 56s
The issue with the question about different conferences allowing NIL sale is that the leagues that play one another would make the same rule.

 

[Dooley]

Andy Staples ‏@Andy_Staples 1m
Emmert: "The schools in Division I -- all but a handful, about 25 of them -- operate at an operating loss."

Andy Staples ‏@Andy_Staples 44s
Emmert: "I suspect most schools would move toward a Division III model."

Andy Staples ‏@Andy_Staples 39s
So, just to be clear, Emmert is saying he thinks those five leagues might walk away from 10-figure contracts.

 

[Dooley]

Sara Ganim @sganim · 1m
Absent corporate fundraising, D1 sports would look more like D3 sports, Emmert said. My question: What's so bad about the D3 model?

 

[Dooley]

Bruce Feldman ‏@BruceFeldmanCFB 1m
He's wrong. RT @RodGilmore Emmert says fans would turn away from college sports if players paid for name, image & likeness (NIL).

Andy Staples ‏@Andy_Staples 4m
Emmert: "To convert college sports to professional sports would be tantamount to converting it to minor league sport."

 

[Dooley]

Andy Staples ‏@Andy_Staples 41s
Emmert: "Division I sports are much more balanced than they've ever been." Referenced UC-Irvine CWS win against Texas.

 

[Dooley]

Andy Staples ‏@Andy_Staples 2m
Emmert says schools would stockpile. Says players would have to choose between high pay/bench at rich school or start at poor school.

Andy Staples ‏@Andy_Staples 2m
That kind of sounds like an open-market choice.

Andy Staples ‏@Andy_Staples 1m
And this has been the NCAA's problem the whole trial. They keep walking into making the plaintiffs' case for them.

Andy Staples ‏@Andy_Staples 33s
Basically, Emmert just described a free market as a bad outcome in an antitrust trial.

 

[sportsart]

Bruce Feldman ‏@BruceFeldmanCFB 1m
He's wrong. RT @RodGilmore Emmert says fans would turn away from college sports if players paid for name, image & likeness (NIL).

Andy Staples ‏@Andy_Staples 4m
Emmert: "To convert college sports to professional sports would be tantamount to converting it to minor league sport."

He's not wrong. I would not feel the same if players were getting paid for NIL. What about players with less name recognition who would get diddly for their NIL? Resentment amongst players would be high.

Pay the players a full cost stipend and let's move on.

 

[Kolumbo]

Andy Staples ‏@Andy_Staples 41s
Emmert: "Division I sports are much more balanced than they've ever been." Referenced UC-Irvine CWS win against Texas.

Did he mention squash too?

 

[Dooley]

He's not wrong. I would not feel the same if players were getting paid for NIL. What about players with less name recognition who would get diddly for their NIL? Resentment amongst players would be high.

Pay the players a full cost stipend and let's move on.

Somebody asked a fair question about this: what is to stop big-money boosters from buying a million jerseys of players from their schools so that they can offer more money to "student"-athletes? Right now, nothing would stop that (if they are paid for NIL).

 

[pj]

On the one hand, I'm not sympathetic to antitrust law. On the other hand, it's UConn's best defense against exclusion from a P5 division. Not sure what I'm rooting for, except for Emmert to look like a fool.

 

[Dooley]

On the one hand, I'm not sympathetic to antitrust law. On the other hand, it's UConn's best defense against exclusion from a P5 division. Not sure what I'm rooting for, except for Emmert to look like a fool.

That's what I'm rooting for too and we're winning. His calling 8th graders "student athletes", calling student athletes "full time athletes", and proclaiming that all but 25 or so ADs are operating at a loss are my favorites. There's something going on with his chair while he's testifying too (literally, his chair keeps giving out from under him apparently).

 

[freescooter]

Andy Staples ‏@Andy_Staples 2m
Emmert says schools would stockpile. Says players would have to choose between high pay/bench at rich school or start at poor school.

Andy Staples ‏@Andy_Staples 2m
That kind of sounds like an open-market choice.

Andy Staples ‏@Andy_Staples 1m
And this has been the NCAA's problem the whole trial. They keep walking into making the plaintiffs' case for them.

Andy Staples ‏@Andy_Staples 33s
Basically, Emmert just described a free market as a bad outcome in an antitrust trial.

The problem here is that a free market IS a bad outcome for college athletics. Just like its a bad outcome for the NFL or the NBA. Sure the salaries are high for players in those leagues, but teams can't make unlimited payments. If there is no consistent set of rules that everyone abides by, there is no possible way you can have competitive games. It is why the NFL has a salary cap and limits numbers of players on rosters and rules about how bonuses get calculated against the cap and all that nonsense. The problem with college football 9and other sports as well) is that there aren't 32 teams. Nor is there any sense of benefit to the whole. Alabama will do what is good for Alabama regardless of whether it hurts 127 other D1 programs, indeed that probably makes it MORE attractive. The NFL owners get that sometimes its necessary for Jerry Jones to take less for themselves because by having a level playing field and a competitive league, everyone will ultimately be better off.

 

[CTMike]

There is a difference between a player getting paid to play by a school, and a player being able to capitalize on his name/image/likeness. There should be no restriction on the latter.

 

[SubbaBub]

I'm surprised the NCAA doesn't simply say, "These are our rules. Students, schools, staff all agree to play by them as a condition of participation. We are not restricting people from persuing other opportunities to play sports as a vocation elsewhere. All players are current students admitted to and enrolled in the university they represent, some are provided scholarships and other benefits for participating in this optional activity. Athletics at the university level is not an occupational classification," and just leave it at that.

 

[SubbaBub]

There is a difference between a player getting paid to play by a school, and a player being able to capitalize on his name/image/likeness. There should be no restriction on the latter.

Small caveat. They shouldn't be allowed to sell there own image based on their connection to the school. They should be paid a % of whatever money the school makes from their NIL. The value comes from both parties working together.
Johnny Football is just another 'bro without the platform and fanbase that TAMU provides him. At least while their in school.

If you allow open market, then Alabama players will get paid tens of thousands through shadow NIL contracts. Well... it will happen openly, then.

 

[noeynox]

There is just something fundamentally wrong, to me, where these young men in FB and Men's BBall are part of a revenue generating machine that makes billions of dollars, don't get any money, While Emmert, Conference commissioners, coaches and ADs make millions. For most of these kids they will never be part of an organization that produces that much $, ever again. Where coach K, can make 9 million a year, more than any other coach in American Team Sports.

I know this threatens college sports as I have loved them, but the current setup coupled with the P5 Greed and line of demarcation are absolutely corrupt and the players are getting short changed. Some education these athletes are being afforded at places like Carolina.

 

[noeynox]

I'm surprised the NCAA doesn't simply say, "These are our rules. Students, schools, staff all agree to play by them as a condition of participation. We are not restricting people from persuing other opportunities to play sports as a vocation elsewhere. All players are current students admitted to and enrolled in the university they represent, some are provided scholarships and other benefits for participating in this optional activity. Athletics at the university level is not an occupational classification," and just leave it at that.

This would seem the best defense, but there are still billions of $ generated.

 

[CL82]

On the one hand, I'm not sympathetic to antitrust law. On the other hand, it's UConn's best defense against exclusion from a P5 division. Not sure what I'm rooting for, except for Emmert to look like a fool.

It's good when you can get what you wish for.

Two quick thoughts:

1) I wonder if this lawsuit is the beginning of the end for the NCAA.
2) Isn't the answer to this suit as simple as not using player images?

 

[freescooter]

There is just something fundamentally wrong, to me, where these young men in FB and Men's BBall are part of a revenue generating machine that makes billions of dollars, don't get any money, While Emmert, Conference commissioners, coaches and ADs make millions. For most of these kids they will never be part of an organization that produces that much $, ever again. Where coach K, can make 9 million a year, more than any other coach in American Team Sports.

I know this threatens college sports as I have loved them, but the current setup coupled with the P5 Greed and line of demarcation are absolutely corrupt and the players are getting short changed. Some education these athletes are being afforded at places like Carolina.

the NCAA, the media like ESPN and the fans created a monstrosity and now nobody really knows how to get out of it. Frankly, Johnny Football is just a punk kid without Texas A&M's investment. We'll see what he does in Cleveland...The NCAA basketball tournament out to just divide the money equally among all the schools. End the credit nonsense. End payment for going deep into the tourney. Take the billion dollars or whatever it is they get, take a 3% cut for administration and whatever it costs to run the event and cover the schools' costs and divide the rest by however many NCAA schools there are. UConn is still going to try to win it all. So is Duke and UNC and Kansas and Kentucky. Siena isn't in it to win the NCAA tourney anyway. Let them do whatever they want with it. Kentucky wants to use its share to build yet another practice gym, great. Yale wants to invest it in equipment for the Biology Department, have at it. Bates wants to hire an English Lit professor, Godspeed. Louisville want to hire a pair of whores to keep their basketball and football coaches smiling, more power to them.

I'd do 2 other things. First I'd make scholarships guaranteed for 5 years for basketball and 6 for football. give players an additional year to complete their degrees at no cost. Second, I penalize schools where players leave early for the pros. Guy signs a pro contract after his second year, you can't reuse that one until his class graduates. So under my scenario, Texas A&M would have 84 rather than 85 for 2014 and 2015 since Johnny football left. UConn basktball would have 12 instead of 13 for the upcoming season because Daniels left. kentucky basketball would owe the NCAA scholarships for the next decade. Thi swould end the charade that college athletics are about STUDENT-athletes. it would force coaches to look at who they are recruiting. And it would let kids know that they are going to be able to get a degree when they are finished playing. Do you know why coaches and ADs love football players to finish high school early come to campus in January rather than September? They will tell you its because they have a semester to adjust, learn the playbook and get in shape. But if you get them privately, and push hard, they will admit that they hate having to provide scholarships to guys who are no longer players. Seniors get scholarships for the 2nd semester but don't play, don't practice, don't contribute at all. They'd much rather have that final semester of scholarship end with the end of the football season.

 

[SubbaBub]

There is just something fundamentally wrong, to me, where these young men in FB and Men's BBall are part of a revenue generating machine that makes billions of dollars, don't get any money, While Emmert, Conference commissioners, coaches and ADs make millions. For most of these kids they will never be part of an organization that produces that much $, ever again. Where coach K, can make 9 million a year, more than any other coach in American Team Sports.

I know this threatens college sports as I have loved them, but the current setup coupled with the P5 Greed and line of demarcation are absolutely corrupt and the players are getting short changed. Some education these athletes are being afforded at places like Carolina.

Same can be said for the people who work for Walmart. The revenue isn't the issue, it's the use of their property (NIL) without compensation. A scholarship covers playing on gameday. Selling your face to third parties is something else. That right can't be implied from just because they show up to play.

 

[FrostyNuggets]

Same can be said for the people who work for Walmart. The revenue isn't the issue, it's the use of their property (NIL) without compensation. A scholarship covers playing on gameday. Selling your face to third parties is something else. That right can't be implied from just because they show up to play.

Not really. The product in college athletics is Shabazz Nappier or Johnny Manziel playing ball. Same cannot be said for a WalMart employee.

 

[SubbaBub]

Not really. The product in college athletics is Shabazz Nappier or Johnny Manziel playing ball. Same cannot be said for a WalMart employee.

Neither operation works without all its components. But strangely, UCONN BB will go on without Bazz as it did without Kemba, Rip, or Calhoun.

But this case isn't about what value players add to athletics. It's about third parties using their property (NIL) outside the boundary of athletics.

The outcome will be the NCAA doesn't have to pay it's players, doesn't have to cut them in on game broadcasts, but will have to cut them in on direct merchandising of their likeness (see the new customizable jerseys, that's not an accident) and any third party use of their likenesses.

Any anti-trust claims I think will fall flat. Unless the NCAA keeps Emmert on the stand much longer.

 

[FrostyNuggets]

Neither operation works without all its components. But strangely, UCONN BB will go on without Bazz as it did without Kemba, Rip, or Calhoun.

But this case isn't about what value players add to athletics. It's about third parties using their property (NIL) outside the boundary of athletics.

The outcome will be the NCAA doesn't have to pay it's players, doesn't have to cut them in on game broadcasts, but will have to cut them in on direct merchandising of their likeness (see the new customizable jerseys, that's not an accident) and any third party use of their likenesses.

Any anti-trust claims I think will fall flat. Unless the NCAA keeps Emmert on the stand much longer.

see your point.

 

[The Viking]

I actually like that idea from Freescooter - have the scholarship count against the school for 4 years. Interesting.

Of course Calipari would have to finally leave for the NBA because his sham setup would blown to smithereens.