Soft in the Middle?

[Geosfun]

Not at all to suggest I don't appreciate having them on our team or that they're not real good teammates, but . . . I admit I did expect more from Ice and Jana.
Ice, rather than build on her success last year, seems to have regressed while Jana, much ballyhood as powerful inside force, has been less than that. Neither attacks the boards with conviction, neither attacks the basket with the power their size and skill should allow them to.
Yes, Ice's development has been hampered by injury; yes, this is Jana's first year on the floor; and, yes, Jana has been better now that she's getting increased PT.
But, IMO, neither seems to be displaying the aggressivness I had been hoping for.
I wonder if they get much opportunity to bang against the likes of Tina, Stef, Pheesa.

 

[PvP]

Not at all to suggest I don't appreciate having them on our team or that they're not real good teammates, but . . . I admit I did expect more from Ice and Jana.
Ice, rather than build on her success last year, seems to have regressed while Jana, much ballyhood as powerful inside force, has been less than that. Neither attacks the boards with conviction, neither attacks the basket with the power their size and skill should allow them to.
Yes, Ice's development has been hampered by injury; yes, this is Jana's first year on the floor; and, yes, Jana has been better now that she's getting increased PT.
But, IMO, neither seems to be displaying the aggressivness I had been hoping for.
I wonder if they get much opportunity to bang against the likes of Tina, Stef, Pheesa.

Ice, IMO, is a 4 not a 5. She has no "back to the basket" game. I see her as a backup to Sarah going forward. I believe in Jana as she overcomes such a long stretch off the court. She has the footwork of a 5 and, now that she is getting more PT, I hope her confidence returns. We don't need her to be a star given the cast surrounding her. We need her to focus on her natural advantages as a large 6'5" presence.

 

[sun]

In the past we relied on Edwards scoring in the post which she was quite good at. I think she developed scoring techniques because of all her extra work with the Canadian national team. She probably learned a lot of pointers from them and was also able to practice against bigger & stronger players. Who knows what videos of other players that she watched to help inspire her. Plus she was a good dancer which showed her ability to move good too.

 

[hookshot]

You gain confidence and comfort level with game PT, but skill has to first be developed in practice. Jana does not lack for aggressiveness to my eye, she lacks skill (at this point in her development). Game playing time is the least efficient place to to develop skill and, lacking high level skill, it is hard to gain confidence. The Uconn offense relies on a high post facilitator, and Ice is more experienced and better than Jana at this point, in that role, particularly in that she additionally has a mid-range jump shot (which she has somehow lost confidence in). Winning national championships also has typically required a strong rebounding / scoring low post. Neither Jana or Ice are demonstrating that now, but Jana may offer the most hope because of her size and aggressiveness. Consequently, Geno continues to play each at times, and neither at times, what else can he do ? He's searching for the 7 to 9 players that give him the best chance to win a particular match-up in March. Onward and Upward, but don't expect miracles from Jana this year, it takes time and time is running out

 

[huskeynut]

I guess your opinion depends on your expectations.
.
Ice is a 4 not a 5. Right there, it's a different mindset. Jana is a 5. She comes from a different basketball style and it learning the game as UConn plays it.

Most inside players, or post players if you will, take time to develop in the college game. Geno and Chris have said this many times over the years. Tina was not Tina her freshman year, Steph was not Big Momma Steph her first couple of years. Pheesa was not a post player. She was a forward and a role player her first season.

Jana is getting there. You can see incrimental improvement each game. But her game is not "automatic" yet. She is still processing things. Her learning curve will eventually kick in. When? You can't project. Each person learns at a different pace. The same goes for Ice. It will happen.

Gerno does know what he's doing.

 

[meyers7]

I guess your opinion depends on your expectations.
.
Ice is a 4 not a 5. Right there, it's a different mindset. Jana is a 5. She comes from a different basketball style and it learning the game as UConn plays it.

Most inside players, or post players if you will, take time to develop in the college game. Geno and Chris have said this many times over the years. Tina was not Tina her freshman year, Steph was not Big Momma Steph her first couple of years. Pheesa was not a post player. She was a forward and a role player her first season.

Jana is getting there. You can see incrimental improvement each game. But her game is not "automatic" yet. She is still processing things. Her learning curve will eventually kick in. When? You can't project. Each person learns at a different pace. The same goes for Ice. It will happen.

Gerno does know what he's doing.

But they both averaged double figures scoring and 6-8 rebounds. Dolson also had 60 assists as a FR.

 

[dtbtbtb]

I see Ice as a stretch 4...her preferred shot is a jump shot. Unfortunately, either because she lost confidence in her shot or because of instructions from Geno not to shoot from distance, she does not shoot a lot. She is doing a better job with positioning on defense and is a reasonable passer. Lomg term she can't be looked at as a 5 because she is not that tall (maybe 6 2) and lacks jumping ability or quick reactions which limits her as a rebounder or shot blocker.
Jana on the other hand does have a lot of tools that can be developed into a major center in WBB such as height, she is aggressive, and does have a feel for rebounding and shot blocking. She was used in Egypt to be the main cog and as such when she got the ball, that ball was not coming back out. In UConn she is learning (and we can see improvement) how to pick and roll, passing from the high post into the post, posting, getting the ball, passing it back out and re-posting, etc...
As was mentioned, it takes longer for Centers to become good in real good in college. IMO by Mid-March Jana will be much better as long as Geno continues to play her significant minutes.

 

[HopJim]

I guess your opinion depends on your expectations.
.
Ice is a 4 not a 5. Right there, it's a different mindset. Jana is a 5. She comes from a different basketball style and it learning the game as UConn plays it.

Most inside players, or post players if you will, take time to develop in the college game. Geno and Chris have said this many times over the years. Tina was not Tina her freshman year, Steph was not Big Momma Steph her first couple of years. Pheesa was not a post player. She was a forward and a role player her first season.

Jana is getting there. You can see incrimental improvement each game. But her game is not "automatic" yet. She is still processing things. Her learning curve will eventually kick in. When? You can't project. Each person learns at a different pace. The same goes for Ice. It will happen.

Gerno does know what he's doing.

While I have commented several times that Jana and Ice are still young and will continue to develop, there are certain core strengths such as blocking shots and defense that you hope to see from day one. Jana in particular takes up horizontal space but does not seem to have the leaping ability to block shots. Every game, guards consistently drive by her or she fouls. Not a top defender. Haven't seen enough of Ice to reach any conclusions but she is certainly more athletic and appears to have the potential for a more diverse offensive game. Our forward and guard lineup consistently is doing well so some tough decisions for Geno.

 

[LwrcasefaN]

Ice is definitely a 4. And I've never seen any pre UCONN footage where Jana played the 5. I always saw her as a 4...with small and power forward skills. I think she can be a 5, but her foot work isn't accustomed to crowded spaces. Her coordination and timing are in transition.

 

[EricLA]

Guys, Ice played the 5 her entire high school career. Yes she loved stepping out and hitting the 3, taking fade away jumpers, etc, but as the tallest and strongest player on her team every year, she played the 5. So her "mindset" in high school was as a center, not a forward. Sarah is a 3/4, but she still has a solid post up game. To give Ice a pass because "she's a natural 4" is letting her off the hook.

We saw her play really well last season, especially when Liya was out, gave us hope for this season, but aside from some improved fitness, I've seen zero improvement from last season. To potentially blame her play on Geno not wanting her to shoot 3's is not correct IMHO. She's 1-7 this season and shooting only 64% from the FT line. She's 3rd from the bottom in PPG only ahead of Morgan and Qadance.

She is a solid passer and sees the floor well. I think she has decent BBIQ. And she plays good defense. But for whatever reason, she's heading in the direction of being behind Morgan on the depth chart. No idea what the answer is. Hopefully she figures it out soon.

 

[Duncan Idaho]

Still need post moves as a Four. May be the jump will come next year since she lost one to injury?

 

[LwrcasefaN]

I've never known a coach who would tell a player not to shoot. Think about that as a player. I've known coaches who suggested better shot selection. I still think that the chemistry between the bigs and guards need work. Post passing isn't ideal IMO. Watch the bigs and see how many times they are open and missed or passed to late. On the flip side...big cutters are watching too much on guard penetration. Was watching the GA Tech bigs...they cut and align on their guard penetration. And it's smooth.

 

[Jaml]

Jana and Ice have both shown good passing ability, which is a UConn trademark for bigs. They've both had some questionable passes, but that happens with everyone. Jana did have 4 blocks in the last game (Georgetown), so that part of her game should improve.

Morgan does look more comfortable than Ice when coming in to play the five. Ice can move back to the four next year with Gandy coming in....and then the Big O after that (pretty please).

 

[GoUconn7961]

We are really beating that dead horse a lot now.

 

[JoePgh]

I think that the underlying question/anxiety here is whether UConn can win an NC this year without an All-American center. Given that Sarah is playing the 4 about as well as anyone can expect (and certainly well enough at that position to win an NC), and the guard and wing positions are solidly at an NC-contender level, the question is whether Ice's and Jana's current-year shortcomings are so large as to kill any realistic hope of a 12th NC.

I don't think they are. Who is the Griner-level center in the NCAA this year who is going to grind Ice and Jana into little pieces and stomp on them? I don't see one. Feagin at South Carolina? Betts at UCLA? Iriafen at USC? Sedona Prince at TCU? Reagan Beers at Oklahoma? Westbeld at ND? How many of those players have guards on their team who are skilled enough to get them the ball where they can do damage against Jana and Ice?

I think the teams that are most likely to defeat UConn in the NCAA tournament will do it with the guard play and outside shooting, not with scary in-the-paint offense. That's how UConn got beaten twice this season, by Hidalgo/Miles at ND and by JuJu Watkins at USC. South Carolina also has quality guards that may or may not be able to do the same thing. But I don't see a team that can defeat UConn by overwhelming its interior players.

Has anyone looked at the box score of yesterday's South Carolina - Texas game? Despite losing by 17 points, Texas won the offensive rebounding battle by 20-6 and took 28 more field goal attempts than South Carolina. If Texas had not shot 28% compared to SC's 51%, they probably would have won the game. South Carolina's center, Sonia Feagin, had 9 rebounds and 6 blocks (good) but scored only 8 points and had 4 turnovers. (Texas forced 22 SC turnovers while only turning the ball over 12 times.) That doesn't sound like a player who will leave Ice or Jana in the dust.

 

[packwrap]

We are really beating that dead horse a lot now.

Was the dead horse a 4 or a 5?

 

[Plebe]

I think that the underlying question/anxiety here is whether UConn can win an NC this year without an All-American center. Given that Sarah is playing the 4 about as well as anyone can expect (and certainly well enough at that position to win an NC), and the guard and wing positions are solidly at an NC-contender level, the question is whether Ice's and Jana's current-year shortcomings are so large as to kill any realistic hope of a 12th NC.

I don't think they are. Who is the Griner-level center in the NCAA this year who is going to grind Ice and Jana into little pieces and stomp on them? I don't see one. Feagin at South Carolina? Betts at UCLA? Iriafen at USC? Sedona Prince at TCU? Reagan Beers at Oklahoma? Westbeld at ND? How many of those players have guards on their team who are skilled enough to get them the ball where they can do damage against Jana and Ice?

I think the teams that are most likely to defeat UConn in the NCAA tournament will do it with the guard play and outside shooting, not with scary in-the-paint offense. That's how UConn got beaten twice this season, by Hidalgo/Miles at ND and by JuJu Watkins at USC. South Carolina also has quality guards that may or may not be able to do the same thing. But I don't see a team that can defeat UConn by overwhelming its interior players.

I don't see it as a question of Ice needing to win or to hold her own in a 1-on-1 matchup with an opposing post player per se. But as a team we do need some semblance of a competent offensive threat in the paint (not necessarily all-American level, but competent) in order to draw more defensive attention and free up space for our best scorers to operate. There's a yen-and-yang effect of interior and perimeter play which is not weighing in our favor right now vis-à-vis the best teams.

I don't know about the "grind into little pieces and stomp on them" metaphor, but suffice it to say that, for example, zero points in 13 minutes of play from our starting post player is an obstacle to mounting a winning effort.

 

[uconnfan68]

I resemble that subject line.

 

[donalddoowop]

I don't see it as a question of Ice needing to win or to hold her own in a 1-on-1 matchup with an opposing post player per se. But as a team we do need some semblance of a competent offensive threat in the paint (not necessarily all-American level, but competent) in order to draw more defensive attention and free up space for our best scorers to operate. There's a yen-and-yang effect of interior and perimeter play which is not weighing in our favor right now vis-à-vis the best teams.

I don't know about the "grind into little pieces and stomp on them" metaphor, but suffice it to say that, for example, zero points in 13 minutes of play from our starting post player is an obstacle to mounting a winning effort.

I thought Jana scored yesterday even though she was taken out of the game rather quickly. She needs more than five or six shots a game.

 

[boontonbomber]

I think that the underlying question/anxiety here is whether UConn can win an NC this year without an All-American center. Given that Sarah is playing the 4 about as well as anyone can expect (and certainly well enough at that position to win an NC), and the guard and wing positions are solidly at an NC-contender level, the question is whether Ice's and Jana's current-year shortcomings are so large as to kill any realistic hope of a 12th NC.

I don't think they are. Who is the Griner-level center in the NCAA this year who is going to grind Ice and Jana into little pieces and stomp on them? I don't see one. Feagin at South Carolina? Betts at UCLA? Iriafen at USC? Sedona Prince at TCU? Reagan Beers at Oklahoma? Westbeld at ND? How many of those players have guards on their team who are skilled enough to get them the ball where they can do damage against Jana and Ice?

I think the teams that are most likely to defeat UConn in the NCAA tournament will do it with the guard play and outside shooting, not with scary in-the-paint offense. That's how UConn got beaten twice this season, by Hidalgo/Miles at ND and by JuJu Watkins at USC. South Carolina also has quality guards that may or may not be able to do the same thing. But I don't see a team that can defeat UConn by overwhelming its interior players.

Has anyone looked at the box score of yesterday's South Carolina - Texas game? Despite losing by 17 points, Texas won the offensive rebounding battle by 20-6 and took 28 more field goal attempts than South Carolina. If Texas had not shot 28% compared to SC's 51%, they probably would have won the game. South Carolina's center, Sonia Feagin, had 9 rebounds and 6 blocks (good) but scored only 8 points and had 4 turnovers. (Texas forced 22 SC turnovers while only turning the ball over 12 times.) That doesn't sound like a player who will leave Ice or Jana in the dust.

All those bigs are much better than Jana or Ice, and if they're being guarded by Jana or Ice, won't take an All-American to get them the ball. Though, those teams do have All-Americans in Rice, Van Lith, Hidalgo/Miles . Oh, and you do mention the "quality guards" that SC has.

 

[Alydar]

A lot of the problem is timing. Bird once said that the key to basketball is not "what" or "how much" but "when". Over the years I've seen young posts flash into the paint and be open but get the ball after defenders get to them. Freshman Stewart used to run into the paint waving her arms for a ball that never got to her. It's all about ball handlers anticipating what the posts are going to do and getting them the ball before defenses can collapse on them. That takes time and repetitions. El Alfy needs to learn when to call for the ball and the guards need to anticipate when sh is going to do that. Remember that El Alfy couldn't do much on a court for almost a year. She wasn't cleared to practice until August so she never worked with Bueckers until last summer.
I watched Charles, Dolson and ONO miss a lot of bunnies. Geno used to say that Charles' rebounding record was largely due to her missed bunnies. A lot of fans are comparing her to other UConn AA's, but those AA's weren't much different from her as freshmen.

Patience is the proper mantra. And next season, with Malou-Mamel, it will be doubly needed.

 

[Glenn]

The Boneyard, as usual, is way too focused on scoring. Ice does not need to score to be effective for UConn. She needs to play good defense and be a good passer. We have Paige, Azzi, and Sarah for scoring. She does need to get better on defense and get a few more offensive rebounds to be the player we need. It's our defense of fast guards that has been our downfall, and our poor 3 point shooting.