Smaller Point Guards

[bballnut90]

Looking at the 2014 and 2015 lists, it looks like height is less of an asset placed on point guards these days in women's college basketball. Going back to 2007, all of the top point guard recruits have been very short (5-9 and under) besides Chelsea Gray and Samantha Logic. Is there an advantage to have a smaller guard (5-4 to 5-9) vs. a bigger point guard (5-10 to 6-1)? Have the top point guard recruits always been smaller?

 

[meyers7]

I would think the opposite. Having a 5-10/11/6-0 PG is preferable to a smaller one. It's harder for a 5-5/6 player to be a 2 guard and be able to get off her shots. So they usually have to be a PG or they don't play.

 

[Icebear]

I think it is a matter of balancing speed and quickness vs size and seeing over the top.

 

[DobbsRover2]

As Meyers says, if you have BB skills and are fast but short, the only real position that is open is the PG, so you are bound to get a sizable group of players swelling the ranks there. There has been a bit of a tendency toward smaller PGs on the men's college and pro side due to some rule changes that limit the holding and mugging that can be done to smaller players and allow zone defenses, so small speedy guys have more of a chance now, whereas before very recent times you had to be super-talented and a warrior-mentality guy like Iverson to survive in the NBA. I'm guessing that the same trends may be seen more now for women too.

That said, being a taller PG who can get off a higher shot and has a higher level court perspective a la Magic Johnson still has a lot of advantages, but with extra height often comes a little less speed and ability to penetrate the lane, so it is a balance. Or you can go with a Kaili McLaren as your point person and get a very high altitude court view along with someone who is superb at hoisting PGs in the air during NC celebrations.

 

[connboy77]

I think it is a matter of balancing speed and quickness vs size and seeing over the top.

I would take speed and quickness over size every time.

 

[Sonny44]

As Meyers says, if you have BB skills and are fast but short, the only real position that is open is the PG, so you are bound to get a sizable group of players swelling the ranks there. There has been a bit of a tendency toward smaller PGs on the men's college and pro side due to some rule changes that limit the holding and mugging that can be done to smaller players and allow zone defenses, so small speedy guys have more of a chance now, whereas before very recent times you had to be super-talented and a warrior-mentality guy like Iverson to survive in the NBA. I'm guessing that the same trends may be seen more now for women too.

That said, being a taller PG who can get off a higher shot and has a higher level court perspective a la Magic Johnson still has a lot of advantages, but with extra height often comes a little less speed and ability to penetrate the lane, so it is a balance. Or you can go with a Kaili McLaren as your point person and get a very high altitude court view along with someone who is superb at hoisting PGs in the air during NC celebrations.

"a sizable group"? - nice pun.

 

[uconnell]

Looking at the 2014 and 2015 lists, it looks like height is less of an asset placed on point guards these days in women's college basketball. Going back to 2007, all of the top point guard recruits have been very short (5-9 and under) besides Chelsea Gray and Samantha Logic. Is there an advantage to have a smaller guard (5-4 to 5-9) vs. a bigger point guard (5-10 to 6-1)? Have the top point guard recruits always been smaller?

Shannon Bobbit?

 

[DobbsRover2]

"a sizable group"? - nice pun.

But good things come in small-sized packages. MoJeff for instance.

 

[vtcwbuff]

UConn has had two "undersized" guards that had all of the speed and quickness that one could ask for. Ketia Swanier and Loren Dixon were both speed demons. Unfortunately their speed didn't translate to offense.

 

[Icebear]

UConn has had two "undersized" guards that had all of the speed and quickness that one could ask for. Ketia Swanier and Loren Dixon were both speed demons. Unfortunately their speed didn't translate to offense.

Less so for Lorin than Ketia.

 

[DobbsRover2]

If I was to build an optimum PG, I would probably go with someone who was about 6-0, pretty quick, and had a long inscrutable arms, along with a variety of the usual PG-ish between-the-ears attributes. But having a small speed demon sidekick to jump in and provide many valuable minutes running the opponents ragged is just priceless. Ketia and Lorin just wore out and softened up a lot of teams for UConn, and I would never denigrate their contribution to the UConn story, though others may.

 

[vtcwbuff]

Less so for Lorin than Ketia.

Swanier didn't show much offense until her senior year when she started making outside shots. I remember thinking that if she had another year at UConn she may have developed into a first rate point guard.

 

[Icebear]

Swanier didn't show much offense until her senior year when she started making outside shots. I remember thinking that if she had another year at UConn she may have developed into a first rate point guard.

Or maybe someone who could play in the WNBA for 5 years after being chosen in the first round and help win an WNBA title. Or maybe she could have won a Big East 6th player award. Oh, wait she did those things.

 

[vtcwbuff]

Or maybe someone who could play in the WNBA for 5 years after being chosen in the first round and help win an WNBA title. Or maybe she could have won a Big East 6th player award. Oh, wait she did those things.

Ice - IMO a "first rate" point guard has to be several things. Floor general, defender and scorer. In Swanier's case, with the exception of her senior year, she was not an offensive threat. That lack of offense carried over into her WBA career and was probably one reason that she played for 3 separate teams in those 5 years.

I think it could be argued that her draft selection had much to do with the school she attended and the Sun's draft number.

 

[Icebear]

Ketia suffered from doing what she was asked to do, nothing more. The reason she moved from the Sun to Phoenix was the reduction to 11 players per team. The WNBA doesn't keep folks around for 5 years without them contributing something important. My point was that Ketia brought considerably more than Lorin and that is why one moved on up and one didn't I don't think they were comparable.

 

[vtcwbuff]

I checked the offensive stats for both of them and you are right. I didn't realize that Dixon only scored about 250 points for her career. Swanier's total was closer to 700.

 

[DobbsRover2]

All good points here, but like Ice says you gotta play your role. If your a fast small PG at UConn, your job is to dish to All-American teammates who are known for their ability to pop at 50+%. If Ketia or Lorin had played for another team, maybe their jump-shooting abilities might have been more required and maybe they actually would have developed that skill more. But at UConn, that was not the key element for them, and instead they merged into what was needed to make Uconn better.

When we point to stats for players, we have to remember the context of where they played, and I'm guessing that Ketia is satisfied enough with what she gave to the Husky program and that Lorin would not flip two NCs for a few more points on her ppg. Just guessing.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

An effective point guard is going to have speed and someone 5' 10" to 6' can be plenty fast enough. As pointed out by others, the perspective and passing opportunities of the shorter PG is undeniably different. The bounce pass I would bet would be used more often by the shorter guard, and it is more susceptible to being picked off. We are blessed that MoJeff has such blazing speed and a lion heart with her Beep Beep blow by move to the hoop. In general, though, I will take height in my point guard. And definitely with those "inscrutable arms" DobbsRover was talking about.

 

[Icebear]

UCONN has had few PGs who have been 5'10"-6'. Most have been 5'7-5'9" including Monty, Maria, Ketia, Sue, Ashley V., Jen.

 

[Man-Man]

I think with the new 10 sec back court rule, shorter point guards will be in higher demand in a couple of years.

 

[UcMiami]

I think as others have said height dictates position to a large degree in basketball - if you are under 5'10" you better either hit 60% of your threes or be a very good ball handler. If you are 6'0" or less, you better be a really good 2 guard or point guard, 6'1 - 6'2 - you are a wing or undersized forward, 6'2"+ you are a forward or center. Now you can always play down in size if you have the skills (6'2" two guard works) but if you try to play up in size you better be phenomenal.

 

[uconnell]

As many others in the past have pointed out, Tenn without Bobbit,even having Parker. may not have won a Nattie.

 

[doggydaddy]

I think as others have said height dictates position to a large degree in basketball - if you are under 5'10" you better either hit 60% of your threes or be a very good ball handler. If you are 6'0" or less, you better be a really good 2 guard or point guard, 6'1 - 6'2 - you are a wing or undersized forward, 6'2"+ you are a forward or center. Now you can always play down in size if you have the skills (6'2" two guard works) but if you try to play up in size you better be phenomenal.

Who hits 60% of their threes?

40% works. Smaller guards have more issues on defense.

 

[DobbsRover2]

Who hits 60% of their threes?

40% works. Smaller guards have more issues on defense.

I'm able to do it once in a while, while I'm hoisting them with no one around and I got the top spin thing working perfectly. But for WCBB players, yeah I'd die for a few who could pop at 40% in the big games. Smaller guards just need to be pesty and quick on defense, to sucker bigger guards into making ill advised passes that lead to easy lay-ups, and they can learn to funnel opponents into death traps like Stewie.

 

[Geno-ista]

Talking about Ketia and lorin so much in this thread- It was Ketia taking that in bounds going end to end vs DePaul away - in about 3-4 seconds- saving the game and the streak! She was lightning. And Lorin had two big moments for us. In the Big East Tmt. Vs Rutgers I think at XL center; Renee gets in foul trouble early, and Lorin as a freshman, maybe sophomore went in under enormous pressure and played well enough long enough to hold the fort till Renee got back well into the 2nd half. When she came out of game for last time- she jumped right into Geno's arms- it was pure joy! She was also key in regional final vs Georgetown at Temple Univ. Steph was getting blown by g town from the high post- we were going down that game late! I think CD or Shea or Marissasaid to Geno to try going small and we were able to defend better and it gave us a chance to win that game. It's nice that many of our good players still have had great moments!!!!!