Side effect of Boise & SDSU to the Big East...

[whaler11]

Why? It wasn't far from a given that our basketball money helped propel our football. Most (if not all) BCS-level football programs have been able to also install strong olympic sports. It may not be a given, but it almost is...

It was a given that UConn's football program would be good? That is some serious rewriting of history.

Why are there so many BCS football schools that have terrible basketball programs?

None of this stuff even matters to 99.8 of people. Boise fans care about the football team. Is anyone not directly affilated with Boise's olympic sports worried about outgrowing the Big West? Wouldn't they be happy to dominate like Gonzaga in basketball?

Why not go ahead and actually dominate before concern about being too good for the Big West sets in. The Big West isn't worried about it, if Boise left tomorrow they would gladly accept their departure letter.

 

[UConnDan97]

It was a given that UConn's football program would be good? That is some serious rewriting of history.

It's also some serious rewriting of my post! I said that the "basketball money helped propel" our football. It wasn't a given that we were going to be as good as we are, of course not. We didn't know if we were just going to be another version of the old Temple. But I think that most people felt that we were going to be noticeably better than the low tier 1-A programs; otherwise, why would they have dumped all that money into the Rent??

It was of course the expectation of our program to be better than a bottom feeder! 90 million dollars (or however much that project was) is not easy to part with, not even for the state of Connecticut...

 

[UConnDan97]

Depends on what the school uses the money for. They may plow it all back into FB, wanting to maintain their golden goose. Or they could use it for academics.

True, but keep in mind that increasing academics means that you increase enrollment (or perceived status), which in turn increases revenue, which in turn....you get it....

 

[Vowelguy]

True, but keep in mind that increasing academics means that you increase enrollment (or perceived status), which in turn increases revenue, which in turn....you get it....

Huh?

If increasing academics meant a more than 1-for-1 return, every institution would be MIT.

 

[junglehusky]

actually, doesn't Boise have a decent wrestling team that competes in the Pac-12? And I read somewhere they won a couple tennis titles a few years back as well.

I did recently see somewhere BSU's wrestling team is in the Pac12, and I also recall hearing their athletic department got sanctioned because of recruiting violations in... wait for it... tennis.

 

[whaler11]

It's also some serious rewriting of my post! I said that the "basketball money helped propel" our football. It wasn't a given that we were going to be as good as we are, of course not. We didn't know if we were just going to be another version of the old Temple. But I think that most people felt that we were going to be noticeably better than the low tier 1-A programs; otherwise, why would they have dumped all that money into the Rent??

It was of course the expectation of our program to be better than a bottom feeder! 90 million dollars (or however much that project was) is not easy to part with, not even for the state of Connecticut...

Ah, I misunderstood you. A big part of the motivation was protecting the basketball program, to many of those involved success was just a nice bonus.

Even the optimistic people have to be surprised how quickly they went from doormat to competitive and beyond. It was a bit of a stroke of luck that they turned the program results around 6 games before the move to Rentschler.

 

[whaler11]

I did recently see somewhere BSU's wrestling team is in the Pac12, and I also recall hearing their athletic department got sanctioned because of recruiting violations in... wait for it... tennis.

Yeah tennis players let recruits sleep on their couches.

 

[UConnDan97]

Huh?

If increasing academics meant a more than 1-for-1 return, every institution would be MIT.

Who said they were going to become MIT??? Where did the jump from Boise to Ivy happen? I was saying increased academics = increased interest in the school and probably increased money. That's not that big of a stretch, is it???

 

[Vowelguy]

Who said they were going to become MIT??? Where did the jump from Boise to Ivy happen? I was saying increased academics = increased interest in the school and probably increased money. That's not that big of a stretch, is it???

I interpreted your OP as $1 in investment in academics would yield >= $1 in university revenue. And I was pointing out that if that were true, schools would have incentive to invest infinitely in academics.

Secondly, investing in academics can mean lots of things -- not all of them will increase revenue. In fact increased student aid or more support for students to get their degree faster might be revenue neutral at best. Also I can't imagine that Boise has too many direct competitors for students; there are 5 non-religious universities in the whole state.

 

[UConnDan97]

I interpreted your OP as $1 in investment in academics would yield >= $1 in university revenue. And I was pointing out that if that were true, schools would have incentive to invest infinitely in academics.

Secondly, investing in academics can mean lots of things -- not all of them will increase revenue. In fact increased student aid or more support for students to get their degree faster might be revenue neutral at best. Also I can't imagine that Boise has too many direct competitors for students; there are 5 non-religious universities in the whole state.

No worries. Also, keep in mind that competition for universities is no longer local, or in some cases, even regional. That's the power of becoming a national brand and getting a big tv contract. More people start buying your shirts. More people start visiting your campus. And more talented people start playing your olympic sports. That's the only thing that I was thinking about.

 

[Vowelguy]

Also, keep in mind that competition for universities is no longer local, or in some cases, even regional.

Somewhat, but only on the margins. Particularly when you're not within 500 miles of much.

 

[UConnDan97]

Particularly when you're not within 500 miles of much.

I feel like that can be said for half of the teams in the Big12!!

 

[Dan Thompson]

In football, BOISE IS TOO GOOD for Davis. If they have a debate team or chess team battle, then Davis might get to spin that the other way around.

um, Boise's debate team is one of the best in the country, and by the way 2 years ago Boise was ranked in the top 25 in 6 different sports, that's a little more then just football.

 

[Dan Thompson]

Bsu bball the past 4 years has greatly improved. They are trying hard to one day get into the pac. Sports rise. Students #s rise. Academics rise. Invest $. Then go to pac is there dream. Bsu bball right now wouldnt finish last in the big east. Dont sleep.

Student profile - New Freshman - Boise State
2001
2011

28% with 3.5 gpa or higher
40% with 3.5 gpa or higher
66% straight from high school
82% straight from high school
1.6% international students
3.5% international students
11% underrepresented students
15% underrepresented students
68% attending full-time
92% attending full-time

 

[UConnDan97]

um, Boise's debate team is one of the best in the country, and by the way 2 years ago Boise was ranked in the top 25 in 6 different sports, that's a little more then just football.

Good! It helps make my point. I CONTINUE to believe that Boise is too good for the Big West...

 

[UConnDan97]

Student profile - New Freshman - Boise State
2001
2011

28% with 3.5 gpa or higher
40% with 3.5 gpa or higher
66% straight from high school
82% straight from high school
1.6% international students
3.5% international students
11% underrepresented students
15% underrepresented students
68% attending full-time
92% attending full-time

HuskyFanDan would call this "an uptick"!

 

[Dan Thompson]

HuskyFanDan would call this "an uptick"!

Academic Progress Rate
For two years in a row, the Broncos have found themselves ranked No. 2. Oh, not on the field, but in the classroom. Boise State had the second-highest multiple-year
Academic Progress Rate score in all of the FBS for the second straight year. Tied with Duke University, the only team to out perform them was Northwestern.

 

[Dann]

yes, bsu is in the middle of a uptick. the b12 or pac will be within reach around 2020

 

[Adios]

^wtf

 

[Dann]

^wtf

my post was on topic and was referenced from a previous poster in this thread.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I think Boise's stay in the Big West will be very short. I think that the Big East will go to 16 football schools, and that will lead to a western non-football league of Boise, SDSU, Air Force, BYU, Nevada or UNLV (whichever is the 16th BE team), Gonzaga, St. Mary's, Long Beach State and 1 or 2 others. BYU, Gonzaga and St. Mary's are hurt by being in a league with a bunch of schools that are barely D1 in hoops. There are no marquee games in conference other than when they play each other. Heck, there are no games that are even television worthy for the midnight slot.

Put those 3 in a league with LBSU, SDSU and UNLV, and there are quite a few games that qualify for TV. The MWC has taken a big hit for hoops, and is likely going to take another one when Nevada or UNLV leave for the Big East. There is not much for NBC Sports to work with there for the 9 or 10 pm slot. But if the Big East is the lead-in, a SDSU/Gonzaga matchup would do pretty well, even against a Big 12 or SEC game on ESPN

 

[RS9999X]

I think Boise's stay in the Big West will be very short. I think that the Big East will go to 16 football schools, and that will lead to a western non-football league of Boise, SDSU, Air Force, BYU, Nevada or UNLV

You could be right. It really depends on the the way the networks think. What the Big East is proposing is the same alliance the was proposed earlier with the BE holding all the marbles and the Western Conferences Offices holding none of the marbles. The bowl alliance would be headquartered in Providence and not split offices

Personally I think NBC contracts some properties here as a hedge. I don't think they are in the $20 million range because they don't need to be to improve the whole enchilada and add some bonus incentives.

I think they have to go big or go home on their regional networks

 

[ZooCougar]

Big East adds mor western schools.

Western Schools form new conference to play basketball in.

Western schools wonder why they all just don't form a football conference too.

Boise State and company announce the formation of the WAC.

Rinse, wash, repeat.

 

[UConnDan97]

Big East adds mor western schools.

Western Schools form new conference to play basketball in.

Western schools wonder why they all just don't form a football conference too.

Boise State and company announce the formation of the WAC.

Rinse, wash, repeat.

I agree, but they rinse, wash, and repeat with less than half the tv contract money they would have if they stay together. They need to stay with the "Head and Shoulders" east coast teams to really get the dandruff out...

 

[ZooCougar]

I agree, but they rinse, wash, and repeat with less than half the tv contract money they would have if they stay together. They need to stay with the "Head and Shoulders" east coast teams to really get the dandruff out...

Yeah, but who knows how the landscape will change 5-10-15 years from now.

I just think that the Big East is inherently stable.