Shoulder to Shoulder

[Pudge]

This post has the danger of inviting the daggers to come out. However, my view is that the UConn Women's Program commonality to our Kevin Ollie Program is that nature of our past stars involvement in the Program.

When you hear Sue Bird is back instructing new PGs; Lobo & Maya Moore are frequently around the team; then, you must think that we have this on the Guy's side too. In fact, we go beyond that ... we have Miller, Hobbs, Moore, Freeman on the bench. Rip Hamilton coming in; Ray Allen is frequently around. Others. This is a Fraternity (and not one of those that pop DateRate drugs & Roxies). That's the good news & it should absolutely translate to our recruiting (as, IMHO, we are far beyond 340 other Programs in this respect); as it has in the Women's Program.

The issue? There are two primary issues (and I will get back to who is out beating the pavement & making the sale soon): First, WE did get hurt by the loss of scholarship & sanctions. Not huge. But, it did pop us to lost some continuity; that translated into a less-than-experienced 2014-2015 team. Second, regardless that Ollie was an assistant (beginning in 2010), he doesn't have a decade of AAU/Camp network. I am beginning to suspect that Glen Miller adds little; and, then Hobbs/Moore are not as good as the network that Calhoun had going in the last years of the Ought's.

Unlike virtually ALL the non-Power 5, we have the strong brotherhood to press kids towards our Brand. This overcomes a lot of the Power 5 pitch (IMO). We just have a significant disconnect on the networking, targeting, relationship-building ... and thus, closing becomes harder. We never got a large share of the Diamond Stones. We should get some of the top 40 regularly - still in spite of the AAC. Change is necessary.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Good analysis. I agree that something is missing and a lot may be due to the lack of AAU networks and our assistants not adding much on the recruiting trail.

 

[huskiesNhoos]

You just put a lot of thought into stating the simple fact that we need better recruiters on staff with aau connections.

You're absolutely right, but that's the spark notes version

 

[Cheddie]

Interesting. You do read most often about Geno's recruits mentioning past players as favorites (particularly Maya Moore), the chance to compete for a championship, the expectation that they'll be pushed to be the best possible player they may become, and a family atmosphere. A big difference is that Geno has to compete with far fewer schools for the top echelon of high school recruits, and like Herbst said yesterday, he's now a "one-name star, like Beyonce and Cher."

Men's recruiting doesn't seem to be clicking, for whatever reason, particularly after the last NC.

 

[huskiesNhoos]

Men's recruiting doesn't seem to be clicking, for whatever reason, particularly after the last NC.

whats different about our program starting with the NC season? We're in a crappy conference.

It's really not that complicated. Everyone keeps over-thinking these recent recruiting difficulties

Bad conference, plus no big time recruiters on staff equals our current state of affairs

 

[Pudge]

whats different about our program starting with the NC season? We're in a crappy conference.

It's really not that complicated. Everyone keeps over-thinking these recent recruiting difficulties

Bad conference, plus no big time recruiters on staff equals our current state of affairs

Sorry

I simply don't accept that. We can get the kids we need to be a top Program. Is it less than our perch at the BE? Sure. Less than many of the P5? Sure. But, we have the pedigree to build a far more robust pipeline & get better closing on targets. If you want to just b-I-t-c-h, feel free.

 

[BlueMAB]

I don't think there's anything to be gained from comparisons to the women's program for recruits. Less competition on their side, and less pressure on recruits for a career in professional basketball.

If Breanna Stewart played in the men's game they'd be around 1 or 2 years at the absolute maximum. It is extremely rare for players to declare early for the WNBA, the money simply isn't life changing enough to forgo those years in college.

That said, something needs to happen. I agree with @Pudge that the loss of scholarships (visits, and phone calls) hurt us. But we need a closer, or Ollie needs to learn how to close. He works tirelessly at everything he does, so there's no reason to expect he won't improve his recruiting.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Sorry

I simply don't accept that. We can get the kids we need to be a top Program. Is it less than our perch at the BE? Sure. Less than many of the P5? Sure. But, we have the pedigree to build a far more robust pipeline & get better closing on targets. If you want to just b-I-t-c-h, feel free.

Two question: do you think UConn's recruiting would look different if we were in the ACC right now? what is the specific value of "pedigree" to a kid who's not going to jump in a time machine and play in Storrs ten years ago in the Big East?

 

[Woodson]

I think there is a challenging dilemma in terms of recruiting where recruits and kids in the program love the family atmosphere and the fact that there are so many close ties from the staff to the program. And once they become a part of it themselves they experience how unique it is. The challenge is that doesn't seem to be enough for us to really hit the home runs we have been swinging for and close with some of these recruits recently. We need an ace on the staff to bring it all together. Maybe pipelines to Vermont Academy and the like is the alternative.

 

[BlueMAB]

Conference affiliation helps, but it isn't the single most important thing for recruits. If it was, Providence, Rutgers, Seton Hall, USF, and BCU wouldn't have had varying degrees of extended periods of sucktitude when playing in the Big East.

UConn didn't win national titles because we played in the Big East. The Big East helped us establish a pedigree, but going to campus, looking at the facilities, seeing the players in the NBA, matters. The 12-16 year-old players who will be making their college choices over the next few years have grown up seeing UConn win 3-4 national titles, with 2 coming in the last five years.

I think people expected the national title bump to come immediately. I think it will come in 2-3 more years. I don't know about recruit rankings, but we followed up our first NC with another 5 years later. Then it was another 5 years before we got back to the final four in 2009. Then 2011 and 3 years 2014. I expect us to have pretty good classes in the next 2-3 years. We have a good one now, it just doesn't address a couple glaring needs left over from the scholarship ban/recruiting restrictions.

 

[Pudge]

I can't do anything about not being in the ACC. In fact, I think we should fund a Special Ops assassination team to go take out Swofford in Greensboro (how hard could that be?).

In the meantime, the reality is we are not recruiting at the optimal level - my concern. Not awful ... just need a few tweaks. And this BIGTIME Transfer wire stuff that has cropped up in the last few years is huge to get you up a notch for next year - particularly contrasted with the Kentuckys or Kansas. Proven CBB players?

We need a good few months here.

 

[businesslawyer]

I can't do anything about not being in the ACC. In fact, I think we should fund a Special Ops assassination team to go take out Swofford in Greensboro (how hard could that be?).

How hard could it be? You think it's going to be easy to get anyone to voluntarily go to Greensboro? I'm not going -- you going?

 

[Uconn77Duke74]

I'm not a records/statistical guy but what would be the consensus as the "peak years" for UConn recruiting? Seems like from 2003-06 we were really loaded with a ridiculous amount of talent.

 

[Tenspro2002]

I'm not a records/statistical guy but what would be the consensus as the "peak years" for UConn recruiting? Seems like from 2003-06 we were really loaded with a ridiculous amount of talent.

2000-2006, I would say.
Taliek, Caron
Ben, Emeka
Denham, Rashad
MW, CV, Boone
AJP, Rudy
Adrien
The 2006 bonanza

Pretty much every year we got the players we needed. Some of them were lower-rated guys who panned out (Emeka, Hilton), but a lot of them were blue-chippers who, unsurprisingly, turned out to be studs.

Since then, recruiting has been relatively mediocre in terms of landing our top targets, or in terms of our top targets working out. The exception is the 2011 post-NC bounce when we got Boat, and then DD (a Top 10 recruit) late, and Drummond (a Top 2 recruit) at the last minute.

Otherwise: Kemba was a Plan B who was still highly rated and obviously excelled. The class of 2009 was an abortion, with both key targets falling well short of expectations (AO, Jamal Coombs-McDaniel) and Plan D types who never should have been here in the first place (Smith, Trice). The class of 2010 we famously missed on most of our top targets, though the Plan B's we did get turned out to be pretty damn good; as it turns out the blue-chipper in that class, Roscoe, was relatively disappointing. 2012 and 2013 we were impacted by coaching uncertainty and sanctions -- both of those classes have given us relatively little. OC was a top recruit and a Plan A who failed to pan out, and our Plan B/C types have not developed as quickly as their counterparts in years past. This is the principal reason for our current struggles on the court. The 2014 class (Purvis, Hamilton) was a step in the right direction, though we still missed out on most of our big-name targets. And so far the 2015 class has been more of the same -- a few important hits, but a slew of bad misses.

It's not surprising that our recruiting success is correlated with on-court success, and vice versa.

 

[BUConn10]

whats different about our program starting with the NC season? We're in a crappy conference.

It's really not that complicated. Everyone keeps over-thinking these recent recruiting difficulties

Bad conference, plus no big time recruiters on staff equals our current state of affairs

More specifically, we simply cant "sell" being in the best conference in the world anymore, which we will slowly realize how pivotal it was to our success. Also, not being able to tell a recruit he will be able to play in the BE Tournament in MSG really stings, UConn was nationally seen as the "king" of MSG, and recruits want to play on that stage. Now that stage is Tulane and ECU.

 

[Mattyshangs]

whats different about our program starting with the NC season? We're in a crappy conference.

It's really not that complicated. Everyone keeps over-thinking these recent recruiting difficulties

Bad conference, plus no big time recruiters on staff equals our current state of affairs

Very true.

 

[king conn]

Does Kentucky sell the SEC? Hey, you can play at Arkansas and Texas a& m!
Yes, they are P5 but they lose out in glamour to the other 4 basketball wise, and I'm sure football conference is used against them just in case.
They sell Kentucky. I really think our staff does not sell UCONN as well as they could.

 

[Pudge]

How hard could it be? You think it's going to be easy to get anyone to voluntarily go to Greensboro? I'm not going -- you going?

I know this is HIGH time for litigators. Lots of action. There's been moments in RE in the last few years that a trip to Greensboro to settle - once and for all - our grievance was attractive. Tough gulley: but now we are back charging hard nationally.

AND YES ... I do think in Basketball, we can link the WBB with the MBB at UConn. It's cultural. Even though it is different fanbases, I think WE have something special in how we can ellicit passion from our stakeholders & we have built a chain of guys/girls that care about the legacy. You don't find that at more than a handful of schools. (particularly on the Women's side)

 

[huskiesNhoos]

Sorry

I simply don't accept that. We can get the kids we need to be a top Program. Is it less than our perch at the BE? Sure. Less than many of the P5? Sure. But, we have the pedigree to build a far more robust pipeline & get better closing on targets. If you want to just b-I-t-c-h, feel free.

Unfortunately your stubbornness won't help either. I'm not complaining, I'm just explaining why we're in the recruiting predicament we're in. Trust me, I'm not happy about it either, but it's the hand we've been dealt and we just have to make the best of it for the time being

 

[businesslawyer]

2000-2006, I would say.
Taliek, Caron
Ben, Emeka
Denham, Rashad
MW, CV, Boone
AJP, Rudy
Adrien
The 2006 bonanza

Pretty much every year we got the players we needed. Some of them were lower-rated guys who panned out (Emeka, Hilton), but a lot of them were blue-chippers who, unsurprisingly, turned out to be studs.

Since then, recruiting has been relatively mediocre in terms of landing our top targets, or in terms of our top targets working out. The exception is the 2011 post-NC bounce when we got Boat, and then DD (a Top 10 recruit) late, and Drummond (a Top 2 recruit) at the last minute.

Otherwise: Kemba was a Plan B who was still highly rated and obviously excelled. The class of 2009 was an abortion, with both key targets falling well short of expectations (AO, Jamal Coombs-McDaniel) and Plan D types who never should have been here in the first place (Smith, Trice). The class of 2010 we famously missed on most of our top targets, though the Plan B's we did get turned out to be pretty damn good; as it turns out the blue-chipper in that class, Roscoe, was relatively disappointing. 2012 and 2013 we were impacted by coaching uncertainty and sanctions -- both of those classes have given us relatively little. OC was a top recruit and a Plan A who failed to pan out, and our Plan B/C types have not developed as quickly as their counterparts in years past. This is the principal reason for our current struggles on the court. The 2014 class (Purvis, Hamilton) was a step in the right direction, though we still missed out on most of our big-name targets. And so far the 2015 class has been more of the same -- a few important hits, but a slew of bad misses.

It's not surprising that our recruiting success is correlated with on-court success, and vice versa.

The ease with which people dispose of people like AO and Roscoe who started on a friggin national championship team blows my mind. In the last six years, how many players at UNC or Kansas or Indiana or Syracuse started on a national championship team?

This fanbase takes way, way too much for granted.

 

[Inyatkin]

The class of 2009 was an abortion, with both key targets falling well short of expectations (AO, Jamal Coombs-McDaniel)

Alex Oriakhi said mean things about Calhoun and had a crazy dad. That does not make him anything other than a vital player on a championship team.

 

[Pudge]

Hoo

I'm not chasing you to debate you. It ain't stubbornness. It's a guy ignoring you. I can't do anything about our Conference. I expect we will be in the B1G.

 

[huskiesNhoos]

Alex Oriakhi said mean things about Calhoun and had a crazy dad. That does not make him anything other than a vital player on a championship team.

Even Jamal Coombs-McDaniel had a string of games where he turned into a pretty solid scorer. I think smith hit a 3 once, too...

 

[huskiesNhoos]

Hoo

I'm not chasing you to debate you. It ain't stubbornness. It's a guy ignoring you. I can't do anything about our Conference. I expect we will be in the B1G.

I hope so. Conference Realignment just seems to have come to a stand still for the time being so we're going to have to tough it out for now

 

[BlueMAB]

The ease with which people dispose of people like AO and Roscoe who started on a friggin national championship team blows my mind. In the last six years, how many players at UNC or Kansas or Indiana or Syracuse started on a national championship team?

This fanbase takes way, way too much for granted.

5 if you include 2009
10 if you don't arbitrarily stop at 2009 and go back 1 more year.

But I totally agree with you.

I loved Roscoe. Understood his decision, but wish he had stuck it out, and I think he made a mistake. AO (and his dad) rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, including myself. He was integral to our championship, but really needed to humble himself and show more class. I believe he was also integral to the team underachieving in 2012. I appreciate his contribution and I'll leave it at that.