Should UCONN be in B1G?

[rich1122]

I just got season tickets for the first time and will be driving 2 hours each way to every game. No excuses!!

Nice work. Will be renewing my 6 as well as trip to Yankee Stadium.

 

[HuskyHawk]

@HuskyHawk I agree that there may not have been actual documentation that said UNC sign here if you want to join the B1G. To say that that Rutgers was chosen without knowing for certain that UNC was out is wrong.

NC has almost 1M more people than NJ.
Both have talent rich areas for football recruiting.
UNC is one of the premier academic and athletic brands in America.
Rutgers has won literally nothing in athletics except for a Final 4 in the 70s and co BE Title in which they lost the defacto conference title game at home.

Look Rutgers is in, how they got in or what backup plan they were is inconsequential.

I'm just not going to tolerate the national narrative that they have this superior football brand because they had one big year in 2006 and expanded the stadium, so therefore that's why they were chosen.

No argument from me. On field performance was not the factor that put them in the B1G. Period.

 

[DoctorWho85]

@HuskyHawk I agree that there may not have been actual documentation that said UNC sign here if you want to join the B1G. To say that that Rutgers was chosen without knowing for certain that UNC was out is wrong.

NC has almost 1M more people than NJ.
Both have talent rich areas for football recruiting.
UNC is one of the premier academic and athletic brands in America.
Rutgers has won literally nothing in athletics except for a Final 4 in the 70s and co BE Title in which they lost the defacto conference title game at home.

Look Rutgers is in, how they got in or what backup plan they were is inconsequential.

I'm just not going to tolerate the national narrative that they have this superior football brand because they had one big year in 2006 and expanded the stadium, so therefore that's why they were chosen.

I would say UNC WAS (not is) one of the primier academic brands in America. It was all well and dandy until they dropped the ball on creating classes that did not exist so that the "student" (put that in quotes because the term is used lightly in this case) athlete can maintain GPA so that he can remain on the team.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

A fencing school.

The 1949 NCAA men's fencing title remains Rutgers' only national title in any sport.

FWIW, UConn has 19 national titles across men's and women's basketball, men's soccer and women's field hockey. Including three in the last six months.

From what I understand they share that title. I'm not sure if the trophy was cut in half or if Army & Rutgers each get to display it for six months out of the year. Perhaps one of our RU friends can tell us what the arrangement is for that trophy.

 

[Pudge]

Back to the Original Post ...

I think College Sports should be a qualification for admission to the prestigious B1G. Rutgers really doesn't play any College Sports at a competent level. So, while I understand the driving force why Rutgers was admitted ... after they SOLD themselves ... I think the B1G screwed up. They continue in this toilet swirl of never getting the right elements on the field. Football? Delusionary to think they have ever been good for more than a few games. I think UConn is deserving because, repeatedly, we produce solid Programs with Best in Class coaching. Over & over. That's worth more in the long run than the TV sets in Somerville, NJ.

 

[huskyrob1]

http://www.landgrantholyland.com/20...ig-ten-shouldnt-have-added-uconn-over-rutgers

UConn just won a pair of basketball titles, and that's awesome. But that doesn't mean they should have been added to the Big Ten.

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In case you haven't heard, the Connecticut Huskies won two basketball championships last week. This revelation, along with the fact that the school is reasonably close to New York, and currently resides in what's considered to be a secondary conference, has lead some to question if maybe the Big Ten picked the wrong school. Why grab Rutgers to deliver the proverbial NYC market, particularly when UConn is right there?

These concerns left the message boards and Twittersphere and jumped to a major newspaper, with the Toledo Blade posing the same question here. Are they right? Should the Big Ten have gone Maryland and UConn instead?

Let me go ahead and answer that: No.

Before I explain why, let me first say that I am not on Team Rutgers. Nothing against the fine people of the Garden State personally. After all, these guys gave us Saint Bruce Springsteen. But like most fans, I was against the idea of expanding the Big Ten outside of the Midwest unless it was adding a dynamite school, like a Texas or something, and even a fan looking at the situation with the most Scarlet-hued glasses would have to admit that Rutgers isn't such a case.

If I had my way, the Big Ten would still be at 12 teams next season, and if that meant Purdue got a little less TV money, well, I'm comfortable sleeping at night with that sacrifice. However, that's not the world we live in.

If we're going to look at this from Big Ten Commissioner Jim Delany's eyes, we need to look exactly what each school brings to the table. What do they have facilities wise? What can their football program, by far the most significant property for TV, deliver? Can they deliver the proverbial NYC market? Are they even any good?

Let's break it down:

UConn Stadium Capacity: 40,000, which is nearly 10,000 smaller than the smallest field in the Big Ten (Ryan Field, at Northwestern High School, er, University).

Rutgers Stadium Capacity: 52,454. That's also on the low end of the conference honestly, but it's comparable to Indiana, Illinois and Maryland.

UConn Football W/L over last five years: 29-33. In the interest of fairness, this time period did include a BCS bowl bid (though in one of the most down BCS leagues ever). In the interest of fairness, this time period also included a loss to Towson.

Rutgers Football W/L over last five years: 37-27

UConn's proximity to football recruits: Poor. The state of Connecticut failed to produce a single consensus four-star or better football recruit last season, and only produced seven three-star kids. In fact, Connecticut has only produced three four-star recruits since 2010, and none more recently than 2011. The mythical NYC media market may be important, but nobody really cares about getting access to Connecticut.

Rutgers proximity to football recruits: Strong. The State of New Jersey produced twice as many elite (four-star and above) athletes in 2014 (10) than Connecticut did in four years. Big Ten schools have also made it a priority to recruit New Jersey. In just 2014, Michigan, Penn State, Ohio State, Maryland, Northwestern, Michigan State and Iowa (and of course, Rutgers) all signed at least one three-star or above prospect from New Jersey. Establishing recruiting footholds in new territories is critical for the success of the league, and there is plenty of talent in the Garden State.

From New York City, could you get to UConn's stadium without a car (Per Google Maps)?: Not easily. Using trains and a little bit of driving, I am told this trip would take about five-to-six hours.

From New York City, could you get to Rutgers' stadium without a car (Per Google Maps)?: Yes. Assuming everything lines up, the trip would take two-to-three hours. UPDATE: several Rutgers fans have told me that you can now get from Midtown to Rutgers in about an hour via train. Even better.

UConn's Men's Basketball record over last five years: 122-57. That span includes two national titles, five winning records and one postseason ban (for some very un-B1G APR scores).

Rutgers Men's Basketball record over last five years: 71-89. That span includes zero postseason runs, zero winning records, three coaches, and one embarrassing coaching scandal.

# of UConn College Football Fans in NYC, per Nate Silver's Geography of College Football, 2011: 150,150, or roughly 5.1% of the market.

# of Rutgers College Football Fans in NYC, per the same study: 607,151. or roughly 20.9% of the market.

UConn average attendance, 2013 season: 30,931. This would have easily been last in the league, but again, UConn also has the smallest stadium.

Rutgers average attendance, 2013 season: 46,549. This would have been 10th in the league, ahead of Indiana, Illinois and Northwestern.

UConn enrollment: 30,474

Rutgers enrollment: 58,788

If you are a league determined to add a school in the Northeast, and you're deciding between Rutgers and UConn, the only advantage the Huskies could claim is a vastly superior basketball team. And even so, if UConn had lost in the Elite Eight this season instead of winning the title, is this still considered enough of an advantage to push for their inclusion? Did two weeks of basketball games provide enough data to demand a referendum on this decision?

In terms of pure, New York City, ahem, footprint, if the Nate Silver study is to be believed, there are four times as many Rutgers fans in the area, and given the terrible performance of UConn on the football field as of late, there is little reason to suggest that has dramatically changed. Given that football revenue vastly outpaces that of basketball, the Huskies' domination in basketball wouldn't be enough to justify a bump up in league. By virtually every other metric, the Huskies lag behind.

Does that mean that Rutgers to the Big Ten will be some smashing success? Not necessarily. In fact, I kind of doubt it, mostly out of skepticism that the great New York football market can really be delivered at all. If it can though, it certainly wouldn't be because of UConn.

You can blame Jim Delany for a lot of things, but if the choice was Rutgers or Connecticut, he didn't screw up here.

Why don't you have Jim Delaney compare UCONN's football practice facility with any in the B1G to see if the school is serious about football. Better yet, compare it to Rutgers PF. Do they still have that blow up balloon for a practice facility that collapsed a couple years ago?

 

[Chief00]

The same leaders who were singularly focused on the weak ACC, are now focused on the BIG10 - a better conference. Yet, the SEC is by far the best option and would leap frog our competition. We would in theory be the weak one in football - but would make the SEC the top conference in men's basketball - and be in discussion for top billing in women's basketball,

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

The same leaders who were singularly focused on the weak ACC, are now focused on the BIG10 - a better conference. Yet, the SEC is by far the best option and would leap frog our competition. We would in theory be the weak one in football - but would make the SEC the top conference in men's basketball - and be in discussion for top billing in women's basketball,

OMG this post is not serious. It can't be.

 

[rich1122]

We can't 25k into our stadium. We get what we deserve.

 

[J187Money]

In what world does it take 5 to 6 hours to get from NYC to Hartford? The death of journalism.

Per google maps it does. Times Square to the Rent. Of course nobody would do it that way.

 

[pj]

Why did the ACC acquire (Pitt, Cuse, BC, Miami, Va Tech, Notre Dame, Louisville) or talk about acquiring (UConn, WVU) every major school in the Big East except Rutgers? Why did Rutgers invest a few years ago in a football stadium expansion that far exceeded actual fan turnout, and thus was a waste of money for them in the Big East? Why do Rutgers insiders tell us they've been talking to the B1G for decades? The simplest answer to these questions is that Rutgers has been ticketed to the B1G for a long time and every major player including the ACC knew it.

The B1G could have brought Rutgers in earlier with Missouri but declined. Why? They must have a long-term strategy in which Missouri didn't fit. Presumably centered around a move east, they wanted to add additional schools around Rutgers; or they wanted bigger fish from the B12 or ACC.

There is no doubt that B1G leaders and leaders of top ACC schools know each other, hang out together, talk to each other. If there was serious interest in a move to the B1G, Delany would know. We now know that the southern ACC schools decided firmly against the B1G, thus their GoR and huge exit fee agreements, though only after leveraging the B1G's interest to get a huge contract increase from ESPN. If the ACC schools are now uninterested, what evidence is there that the B1G did anything other than say, "If you're interested we're interested", and let the ACC schools negotiate with each other and with ESPN to see where their interest lay? It was probably a short conversation on the B1G's side. The main work had to be done on the side of the ACC schools to evaluate what ESPN could give them, and what the new ACC would look like. In the end they liked that look.

Maryland's interest in the B1G provided an opening to bring Rutgers in with a partner acceptable to the B1G. I think it's fair to infer that the B1G had interest in UVa and UNC. Why? They passed on adding Rutgers-Missouri and Rutgers-UConn when those opportunities were available, but jumped to add Rutgers-Maryland when that opportunity came up. That suggests they were looking mid-Atlantic more than northeast or midwest.

But, I think now that ESPN stepped up funding to the ACC and ACC schools have unmistakably committed to remaining in the ACC, the B1G knows the chance to add UVa and UNC is gone. Their opportunities are now UConn and Midwest/Plains/Southwest schools.

We'll see where their strategy takes them. They are on Plan B. Probably they wish they could take Missouri and UConn, but Missouri is now happy in the SEC.

 

[B1GALUM]

Why did the ACC acquire (Pitt, Cuse, BC, Miami, Va Tech, Notre Dame, Louisville) or talk about acquiring (UConn, WVU) every major school in the Big East except Rutgers? Why did Rutgers invest a few years ago in a football stadium expansion that far exceeded actual fan turnout, and thus was a waste of money for them in the Big East? Why do Rutgers insiders tell us they've been talking to the B1G for decades? The simplest answer to these questions is that Rutgers has been ticketed to the B1G for a long time and every major player including the ACC knew it.

The B1G could have brought Rutgers in earlier with Missouri but declined. Why? They must have a long-term strategy in which Missouri didn't fit. Presumably centered around a move east, they wanted to add additional schools around Rutgers; or they wanted bigger fish from the B12 or ACC.

There is no doubt that B1G leaders and leaders of top ACC schools know each other, hang out together, talk to each other. If there was serious interest in a move to the B1G, Delany would know. We now know that the southern ACC schools decided firmly against the B1G, thus their GoR and huge exit fee agreements, though only after leveraging the B1G's interest to get a huge contract increase from ESPN. If the ACC schools are now uninterested, what evidence is there that the B1G did anything other than say, "If you're interested we're interested", and let the ACC schools negotiate with each other and with ESPN to see where their interest lay? It was probably a short conversation on the B1G's side. The main work had to be done on the side of the ACC schools to evaluate what ESPN could give them, and what the new ACC would look like. In the end they liked that look.

Maryland's interest in the B1G provided an opening to bring Rutgers in with a partner acceptable to the B1G. I think it's fair to infer that the B1G had interest in UVa and UNC. Why? They passed on adding Rutgers-Missouri and Rutgers-UConn when those opportunities were available, but jumped to add Rutgers-Maryland when that opportunity came up. That suggests they were looking mid-Atlantic more than northeast or midwest.

But, I think now that ESPN stepped up funding to the ACC and ACC schools have unmistakably committed to remaining in the ACC, the B1G knows the chance to add UVa and UNC is gone. Their opportunities are now UConn and Midwest/Plains/Southwest schools.

We'll see where their strategy takes them. They are on Plan B. Probably they wish they could take Missouri and UConn, but Missouri is now happy in the SEC.

Great post PJ.

Rutgers has been discussed as a candidate for the Big Ten for a long time and one of the earliest mentions of Rutgers was from this article back in 1993: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...ommissioner-jim-delany-big-southwest-missouri.

The comments of Gordon Gee definitely provided insight into the thinking of the leadership of the Big Ten: http://college-football.si.com/2013/05/31/ohio-state-gordon-gee-controversial-comments/. He indicated that Missouri and Kansas were discussed as candidates for expansion but interest was not present and instead moving east, after the addition of Nebraska, was the priority for the Big Ten. He indicated as well that the Big Ten had interest in Virginia, Duke and North Carolina if instability within the ACC were to occur due to other schools not of interest to the Big Ten, Florida State and Clemson, leaving that conference. He speculated that Virginia, Duke and North Carolina might be interested in the Big Ten; however, their decision to raise the exit fee and sign the GOR indicates this is not the case as you mentioned.

The interest in moving to the east, especially on the part of Delany, was discussed in the article detailing the interest the Big Ten had in Maryland and the decision by Maryland to move to the Big Ten: http://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...5da16c-3fd0-11e2-ae43-cf491b837f7b_story.html. The Big Ten had interest in Maryland since at least 2010 based on the comment of Michigan AD Brandon and once the decision was made for Maryland to join the Big Ten then the opening for Rutgers was now present.

Based on these two articles, it is evident that the priority for the Big Ten was to move to the East and especially into the Mid-Atlantic region. Although a move further south along the Atlantic Coast is no longer an option, it is to further move into the East and the Northeast in particular with UConn an option and this may be the next step for the Big Ten when (not if) it elects to expand again.

It was buried deep within the article, http://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...5da16c-3fd0-11e2-ae43-cf491b837f7b_story.html; however, there is a direct mention of UConn: "Some Big Ten athletic directors believed Delany grew wary that the ACC would move to grab Rutgers and Connecticut, two Big East schools who provided some semblance of an entray into the New York media market, an unclaimed territory for college sports."

There is further mention about the Northeast in the press release about the new Big Ten office in NYC: http://www.bigten.org/genrel/041014aad.html. "The Big Ten now stretches from the Atlantic Ocean across the Missouri River, and establishing a base of operations in New York City for all 14 institutions is a natural next step," Northwestern University Director of Athletics Jim Phillips said. "As a university with a large alumni population in New York, and one that recruits students, faculty and student-athletes from throughout the Northeast, we're very much looking forward to what will be a home-away-from-home in Manhattan.”

“Should UConn be in the B1G?” The conclusion of this Ohio State alum (we are not all of like mind and demeanor Gfunk) is YES. A move to UConn from Rutgers from Maryland from Penn State from the Midwest is a logical progression as the Big Ten moves to the East and establishes itself as a “conference with a significant presence in two regions of the country”. UConn is a state flagship public research university which, although not in the AAU, has metrics that best some AAU universities and a commitment to academic excellence, research and innovation; has tremendous support from the state; provides further access into NYC and the North East region; and would bring national championship winning basketball to the conference.

 

[huskyrob1]

Great post PJ.

Rutgers has been discussed as a candidate for the Big Ten for a long time and one of the earliest mentions of Rutgers was from this article back in 1993: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...ommissioner-jim-delany-big-southwest-missouri.

The comments of Gordon Gee definitely provided insight into the thinking of the leadership of the Big Ten: http://college-football.si.com/2013/05/31/ohio-state-gordon-gee-controversial-comments/. He indicated that Missouri and Kansas were discussed as candidates for expansion but interest was not present and instead moving east, after the addition of Nebraska, was the priority for the Big Ten. He indicated as well that the Big Ten had interest in Virginia, Duke and North Carolina if instability within the ACC were to occur due to other schools not of interest to the Big Ten, Florida State and Clemson, leaving that conference. He speculated that Virginia, Duke and North Carolina might be interested in the Big Ten; however, their decision to raise the exit fee and sign the GOR indicates this is not the case as you mentioned.

The interest in moving to the east, especially on the part of Delany, was discussed in the article detailing the interest the Big Ten had in Maryland and the decision by Maryland to move to the Big Ten: http://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...5da16c-3fd0-11e2-ae43-cf491b837f7b_story.html. The Big Ten had interest in Maryland since at least 2010 based on the comment of Michigan AD Brandon and once the decision was made for Maryland to join the Big Ten then the opening for Rutgers was now present.

Based on these two articles, it is evident that the priority for the Big Ten was to move to the East and especially into the Mid-Atlantic region. Although a move further south along the Atlantic Coast is no longer an option, it is to further move into the East and the Northeast in particular with UConn an option and this may be the next step for the Big Ten when (not if) it elects to expand again.

It was buried deep within the article, http://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...5da16c-3fd0-11e2-ae43-cf491b837f7b_story.html; however, there is a direct mention of UConn: "Some Big Ten athletic directors believed Delany grew wary that the ACC would move to grab Rutgers and Connecticut, two Big East schools who provided some semblance of an entray into the New York media market, an unclaimed territory for college sports."

There is further mention about the Northeast in the press release about the new Big Ten office in NYC: http://www.bigten.org/genrel/041014aad.html. "The Big Ten now stretches from the Atlantic Ocean across the Missouri River, and establishing a base of operations in New York City for all 14 institutions is a natural next step," Northwestern University Director of Athletics Jim Phillips said. "As a university with a large alumni population in New York, and one that recruits students, faculty and student-athletes from throughout the Northeast, we're very much looking forward to what will be a home-away-from-home in Manhattan.”

“Should UConn be in the B1G?” The conclusion of this Ohio State alum (we are not all of like mind and demeanor Gfunk) is YES. A move to UConn from Rutgers from Maryland from Penn State from the Midwest is a logical progression as the Big Ten moves to the East and establishes itself as a “conference with a significant presence in two regions of the country”. UConn is a state flagship public research university which, although not in the AAU, has metrics that best some AAU universities and a commitment to academic excellence, research and innovation; has tremendous support from the state; provides further access into NYC and the North East region; and would bring national championship winning basketball to the conference.

Before the Jerry Sandusky scandal at Penn State that ruined Jopa's reputation, Jopa's opinion carried a tremendous amount of weight and was one of the drivers in talking up Rutgers, either in the B1G or the football league he wanted to form, either one had to have Rutgers in it. I think we are going to the B1G eventually or maybe much sooner than later. Michigan wants us, because of our AD, Iowa wants us because of Kirk Ferentz, Tom Izzo, Bo Ryan, and John Belein, would love to have us in their league, Minnesota and Wisconsin would love to add our hockey program. Bob Diaco is an Iowa alum. Last but not least, all the B1G presidents know UCONN's now stellar academic reputation, which is only getting better. All that being said, one more good thing needs to happen, like the UCONN FB team next season goes 10-0 in the AAC, goes to a bowl or the Connecticut legislature votes to fund a new stadium at the Storrs campus, or they vote to extend 384 to Storrs or change Rt 195 from I84 to Storrs to a 4 lane hwy. Even without these things, we get in eventually, but with one of them, we get in tomorrow. Also do not discount the effect that Geno's women's basketball program would have on the B1G, IMO at least 3 or 4 women's bball program's in the B1G go from unprofitable to profitable if the UCONN women are in the B1G.
As far as upgrading one of the hwy's, the distance of Rt195 from I84 to Storrs is only 6 miles. So building 6 miles of highway across farmland parallel to rt 195 would not cost a whole lot considering what it brings to the Storrs campus.

 

[formerlurker]

Before the Jerry Sandusky scandal at Penn State that ruined Jopa's reputation, Jopa's opinion carried a tremendous amount of weight and was one of the drivers in talking up Rutgers, either in the B1G or the football league he wanted to form, either one had to have Rutgers in it. I think we are going to the B1G eventually or maybe much sooner than later. Michigan wants us, because of our AD, Iowa wants us because of Kirk Ferentz, Tom Izzo, Bo Ryan, and John Belein, would love to have us in their league, Minnesota and Wisconsin would love to add our hockey program. Bob Diaco is an Iowa alum. Last but not least, all the B1G presidents know UCONN's now stellar academic reputation, which is only getting better. All that being said, one more good thing needs to happen, like the UCONN FB team next season goes 10-0 in the AAC, goes to a bowl or the Connecticut legislature votes to fund a new stadium at the Storrs campus, or they vote to extend 384 to Storrs or change Rt 195 from I84 to Storrs to a 4 lane hwy. Even without these things, we get in eventually, but with one of them, we get in tomorrow. Also do not discount the effect that Geno's women's basketball program would have on the B1G, IMO at least 3 or 4 women's ball program's in the B1G go from unprofitable to profitable if the UCONN women are in the B1G.

JoePa's inactions ruined JoePa's reputation.

 

[UConn990411]

How many asinine statements have you already made here?

Out of all the obnoxious visitors we get, buggsy is by far the worst.

Most trolls are either dumb or they intentionally make absurd statements to get a rise out of people. buggsy has that rare combination of both.

 

[UConn990411]

That's proof that UNC/UVA said no!

You really think the B1G said, hmm Rutgers or UNC? And they took Rutgers?

Nah, the B1G went after Rutgers and Maryland, because those two markets were crucial for the conference's east coast expansion plans. After they said yes, the B1G (unsuccessfully) went after Virginia and UNC.