Sheryl Swoopes on Clark

[LwrcasefaN]

I do believe that anyone who reports or comments on sports in various public media forums has an obligation to be prepared and do everything possible to get things correct. Swoopes made a number of points on the podcast as follows:

1. Both Clark & Reese will have to get used to playing in the W, and their immediate success is not a sure thing (Probably correct)
2. Clark is currently playing in her 5th (Covid) season and Plum only played 4 seasons (WRONG)
3. Clark takes more shots (40?) per game (WRONG, she averages just under 20. A lot of her scoring is from the FT line.)
4. Clark is older (25?) than Plum was. (WRONG again)

A couple additional points:

• While Swoopes was rambling on in her stream of consciousness, where were the 3 guys on the panel who sat there like bumps on a log. Didn’t any of them know anything about WBB?
• I do agree that the 4 year vs 5 year records will create a “Roger Maris” effect in college sports.
• For the record, Clark has played 123 games so far, 16 fewer than Plum

There has already been some talk about Clark breaking the all-time college basketball scoring record held by Pete Maravich. That discussion should immediately stop for several reasons:

• It serves no useful purpose to compare men’s and women’s records in sports where they don’t compete against each other. MBB & WBB are two different games and it demeans both to compare records and achievements.
• As everyone should know, Maravich averaged an incredible 43 ppg over 3 seasons (freshmen were not eligible for the varsity). A few years back there was considerable controversy when Antoine Davis of Detroit Mercy looked like he might break Pistol Pete’s record. Playing in his 5th varsity season, mercifully , Davis fell short by 4 pts.

I take these podcasts with a grain of salt...even the popular ones. Everybody has one! They're like a Saturday morning visit to the barbershop!

 

[oldude]

I take these podcasts with a grain of salt...even the popular ones. Everybody has one! They're like a Saturday morning visit to the barbershop!

Yes, but this podcast was like asking the barber to take a little off the top and coming out with a buzz cut….

 

[LETTERL]

I will admit to being one who, apparently, did not listen to/watch the whole thing. I only saw the part of the clip where she mentions that Clark is playing her 5th year and questioning whether the record would be legitimate if she played longer than Plum did. Toward the end of the clip I saw (it was only a 2-minute version), and I mean right before it cut off, Swoopes was acting doubtful about her facts.

That was all I saw. I would be interested to hear her take on Clark's and Reese's prospects for success in the WNBA; I did not see or hear that part.

I was sort of disappointed in Swoopes, again based on the short version I saw, with the way she handled herself when discussing Clark and the record and for having her facts so completely wrong.

But that is JMNSHO.

 

[cancontent]

I will admit to being one who, apparently, did not listen to/watch the whole thing. I only saw the part of the clip where she mentions that Clark is playing her 5th year and questioning whether the record would be legitimate if she played longer than Plum did. Toward the end of the clip I saw (it was only a 2-minute version), and I mean right before it cut off, Swoopes was acting doubtful about her facts.

That was all I saw. I would be interested to hear her take on Clark's and Reese's prospects for success in the WNBA; I did not see or hear that part.

I was sort of disappointed in Swoopes, again based on the short version I saw, with the way she handled herself when discussing Clark and the record and for having her facts so completely wrong.

But that is JMNSHO.

That's the thing. I don't think many of us have seen the whole thing. Some on social media have claimed she gets corrected on her mistakes, but I haven't had time to go back and listen to the full version. If true, the host(s) at least tried to correct things during the discussion.

 

[cancontent]

I will admit to being one who, apparently, did not listen to/watch the whole thing. I only saw the part of the clip where she mentions that Clark is playing her 5th year and questioning whether the record would be legitimate if she played longer than Plum did. Toward the end of the clip I saw (it was only a 2-minute version), and I mean right before it cut off, Swoopes was acting doubtful about her facts.

That was all I saw. I would be interested to hear her take on Clark's and Reese's prospects for success in the WNBA; I did not see or hear that part.

I was sort of disappointed in Swoopes, again based on the short version I saw, with the way she handled herself when discussing Clark and the record and for having her facts so completely wrong.

But that is JMNSHO.

That's the thing. I don't think many of us have seen the whole thing. Some on social media have claimed she gets corrected one her mistakes, but I haven't had time to go back and listen to the full version. If true, the host(s) at least tried to correct things during the discussion.

And Swoopes has owned up to her errors. I don't believe it invalidates her ability to speculate on how Clark's game translates at the next level.

 

[BigTenGuy]

https://x.com/GreggDoyelStar/status/1755264405754007799?s=20

Indy Star columnist with a take, in part, on the Swoopes kerfuffle.

 

[cancontent]

https://x.com/GreggDoyelStar/status/1755264405754007799?s=20

Indy Star columnist with a take, in part, on the Swoopes kerfuffle.

A take is one way to look at it. Some valid points, but I always cringe when I read comments stating that she's the best ever in women's college basketball. UConn fans would argue Stewart especially because of her 4 consecutive national titles and leading UConn to an insane undefeated streak.

Also not sure on the most impactful athlete in any sport comment. What is this based on? Us "old heads" as a friend would call me would argue Magic, Bird and Jordan for basketball, Pele, Beckham, and Messi for soccer, Brady for the NFL.

Yes she's helped to bring in insane viewing numbers. How about the growth in viewership, prior to this season? It's a myopic take to me.

Of course her impact on the game has been immense. Love what it has done for the game overall, but to discount the impact of other players and teams these last few years which has helped isn't right in my opinion.

 

[TheFarmFan]

Since I feel like almost every poster in this thread is on the same wavelength, and we're talking about a fact-lite, two-minute rant from a quasi-washed out pro decades past her peak relevance, it may be time to let this ship sail before the sports forum equivalent of Godwin's law is proven true.

 

[DefenseBB]

To me, both LaChina and Sheryl are showing their gross ignorance on a game that they are supposed to be subject matter experts. Add in the fact that Sheryl was a head coach at the D1 level (and failed spectacularly!) really shows she should is a complete knucklehead and I am fine with more twitter callouts to her that either cajole her into a real apology or get her to exit the platform. I also hope LaChina reads and recognizes that achievements and comments are two very different actions and one doesn't allow for the tolerance of another when there is no correlation.

I would never have even clicked on a Sheryl Swoopes article as I lost all respect for her on how she handle (or mishandled) her one HC gig.

 

[GCKSFN4L]

I just watched the interview and I definitely think this whole thing was blown out proportion. Did Sheryl say some things that was absolutely not correct, yes she definitely fumbled on that. She was also fact checked not to long after in the interview as well about Caitlin only being a 4 year senior.

I believe there was some hyperbole of 40 shots a game that was also incorrect but I do think overall she wasn't as malicious as people make it out be. Sheryl said Caitlin will be a great pro just not immediately, she also said that she likely won't take as many shots as she does in college as well. I don't think those statements is as hate induced as portrayed when watching the that portion of the interview in its full context.

 

[bbsamjj]

Doing a brief review of the WNBA Rookie of the Years (WNBA Rookie of the Year Award - Wikipedia) I'd actually say the number of people who were immediate all league players in their rookie seasons is very small:

• Catchings (she technically missed her first year out of college for injury, but this was still her first year in league)
• Diana
• Seimone [Cappie didn't win ROY but was REAL good her first season]
• Parker
• EDD
• B. Stewart

Lots of other really good players, but coming in and immediately dominating is rare.

 

[The deacon]

Doing a brief review of the WNBA Rookie of the Years (WNBA Rookie of the Year Award - Wikipedia) I'd actually say the number of people who were immediate all league players in their rookie seasons is very small:

• Catchings (she technically missed her first year out of college for injury, but this was still her first year in league)
• Diana
• Seimone [Cappie didn't win ROY but was REAL good her first season]
• Parker
• EDD
• B. Stewart

Lots of other really good players, but coming in and immediately dominating is rare.

Maya Moore was an all-star and helped the Lynx win the title in her rookie season of 2011. Thats's pretty close to being a really good player, at least to me.

 

[bbsamjj]

No doubt Maya was excellent her rookie season, but her stats actually pale in comparison to what she eventually became: 13.2ppg, 4.6rpg, 2.6apg. [And I'd argue Augustus and Whalen had better seasons].

A'ja Wilson is similar on that front.

 

[TN-Gamecock]

A take is one way to look at it. Some valid points, but I always cringe when I read comments stating that she's the best ever in women's college basketball. UConn fans would argue Stewart

Stewart and Clark are the two best of all time....No Caitlin has not won 4 championships BUT she has won the Dawn Staley award 3 years running and will win the fourth.

Can you imagine if Caitlin had played on the same team as Stewart? OH my goodness!!!

 

[The deacon]

Stewart and Clark are the two best of all time....No Caitlin has not won 4 championships BUT she has won the Dawn Staley award 3 years running and will win the fourth.

Can you imagine if Caitlin had played on the same team as Stewart? OH my goodness!!!

That could happen this summer in Paris, although more likely it'd need to wait 'til the WNBA all-star game in a year or two... whenever, it would be fun to see. In the meantime, Stewie has some pretty good teammates to rely on.

 

[TN-Gamecock]

I would also love to see Steward matchup with Cameron Brink from Stanford. That would be awesome to see those two battle. Does anyone else think Brink will be the 2nd player in the draft? I'm betting 2nd.

 

[TheFarmFan]

I would also love to see Steward matchup with Cameron Brink from Stanford. That would be awesome to see those two battle. Does anyone else think Brink will be the 2nd player in the draft? I'm betting 2nd.

I'm obviously a Brink homer, but even I can't argue Stewie and Brink should be in the same conversation right now. Stewie was a three-time collegiate POY and four time NCAA MOP. Brink hasn't even cracked first-team AA prior to this year (fingers crossed). And really, this isn't taking anything away from Brink: Stewie is and basically will always be the collegiate GOAT, and she's only gotten better in 8 years in the W. But as Brink develops into a pro player, I do think she'll grow into being an outstanding matchup with some of the more mobile, agile bigs in the league.

Also, I realize I'm part of the problem and not the solution, but wow, talk about thread drift...

 

[cancontent]

THIS.
Swoopes was a legend as a player and had incredible accomplishments, but that does not excuse what happened at Loyola (nor does it justify ESPN and other outlets giving her such a big platform).

After three seasons as Loyola's WBB head coach, the university began investigating Swoopes for alleged mistreatment, after it was reported that TEN of the team's players either transferred or wanted to be released from their scholarships.

One of my good friends from high school has a daughter who played for Swoopes at Loyola. Her response to me regarding the recent kerfuffle surrounding Swoopes was the following:
"I think she is going to be exposed soon. My daughter and many of her teammates and staff suffered and still have trauma because of that woman."

This is a valid point, however what's frustrating/confusing to me is how the standard of tolerance varies depending on who and the situation. For example, there are coaches in WBB/MBB who continue to be rehired and/or tolerated for the same or even worse behaviour. Or the fact former NBA players can make horrible takes and get a pass.

Swoopes has never been hired again, which is good to see, but it doesn't take away the fact she does know something about playing the game. Take away the inaccuracies, she made some valid points about Clark's transition to the WNBA. No different than Ionescu or Plum, where many thought they'd hit the ground running, when in reality it took time for the to get acclimated.

 

[oldude]

We are all fans. So a good-natured discussion of G.O.A.T. status is perfectly fine. I think Clark is great. But Paige is my first pick if I’m choosing up teams.

Where it starts to go off the rails is when so-called “pundits” start taking cheap shots, as Swoopes did, with the intent of tearing down someone’s accomplishments.

I have previously stated that I don’t think Clark’s scoring record, whatever it ends up being, should be compared to Pete Maravich’s record, because MBB & WBB are different games and it demeans both to compare records between the two.

Both Clark & Maravich are/were great basketball players. If I want to demean Clark I could point out that Pistol Pete’s records were set in only 3 seasons without the benefit of the 3-pt shot. If I want to demean Maravich I could point out that he averaged twice as many shots per game as Clark, while shooting a lower percentage from both the field and FT line.

As I said, both Clark and Maravich are/were great players who should both be praised for their incredible achievements. So too are Plum, DT, Stewie, Paige , Wilson and so many incredibly talented athletes who’ve entertained us with their spectacular play and incredible accomplishments.

 

[LETTERL]

So too are Plum, DT, Stewie, Paige , Wilson and so many incredibly talented athletes who’ve entertained us with their spectacular play and incredible accomplishments.

What I find refreshing is that Plum is actually excited for Clark to break her scoring record.

 

[cancontent]

What I find refreshing is that Plum is actually excited for Clark to break her scoring record.

Maybe a tad too excited based on her tweets? .