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Shabazz Trade

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BUHusky10 said:
Agreed. Bazz doesn't have the liberty of guys with names that bring hype or the body type fans can see potential in. Shabazz is a purely skill player and most NBA fans don't follow UConn as closely as us so they don't see what we see in him. Just today in the r/NBA discussion of this trade even heat fans were bashing Shabazz as not making it in the league. Narratives change quickly and people can be reactionary. Orlando only giving up a protected second rounder doesn't do Bazz or UConn's NBA brand at the moment any favors either.

Recruiting is very cyclical and dependent on trends, which is why at the moment Duke and UK can pick any players they want with little resistance from competition. Why? Because recruits see their guys building their brand quickly and leaving early to be successful in the league. UConn had that same rep from the mid-90s to around 08/09. I remember watching old games on uconnhuskygames and hearing guys like Bilas and Vitale specifically mentioning how UConn and Calhoun "run a pro system with a coach who teaches guys the right way to play to be successful in the NBA". I don't hear sentiments like that anymore or with such praise. Luckily for us, there is no young coach more primed to get us back to that level than Ollie.
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I agree with your overall point that recruiting is cyclical. However UConn and Olllie is known for running a pro style offense. Here is a mention in an article on espn. I've heard it mentioned many times by local and national reporters as well as recruits. It's well known that we run a lot of pro sets with the pick and roll and a stretch four in the corner.
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bas...10720084/a-coaching-blueprint-final-four-team
 
Gringo said:
I agree with your overall point that recruiting is cyclical. However UConn and Olllie is known for running a pro style offense. Here is a mention in an article on espn. I've heard it mentioned many times by local and national reporters as well as recruits. It's well known that we run a lot of pro sets with the pick and roll and a stretch four in the corner.
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bas...10720084/a-coaching-blueprint-final-four-team
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This is true, I meant it more as in the context of the program's reputation in the league currently.
 
People are jumping the gun a bit in writing his ticket to Europe, IMO. He was a rookie. Seriously - see if you can count how many good NBA players are rookies or even sophomores for that matter. The days of guys jumping straight to the league - even four year guys like Bazz - and making an impact right away are mostly gone. The league is as spread with talent as it has ever been, and as a result, if you're going to make it, you probably should be willing to bounce around for a while. While Lamb and Napier are definitely at the 'put up or shut up' stage, they still have opportunities and I expect both to take advantage.

He produced in the D-League and he showed a lot better in summer league this year than he did last year - I bet the Magic had scouts at those games liking what they saw. With Miami, it clearly just wasn't a fit - they only drafted him because of LeBron, and as a result he was never really in their long-term plans. Now, with him being in Orlando - and having the opportunity to play with Oladipo and Payton - his shooting is likely to be more valuable. It's a pick-and-roll league, and as long as Napier is the guy he was in college and reluctant shooter he was last year, he'll last.
 
I agree that maybe other fans might not be giving him a fair shake, but to think that UConn fans have a better, less biased view of who Shabazz is? That's ludicrous. If you read the Summer League thread, you'd think that anything he did badly was 100% the fault of James Ennis or Tyler Johnson.

Bottom line, making contested 3s in the NBA is a lot harder than it is in college. Same with putting the move on a guy and driving into the paint. Those were Shabazz's bread and butter for us, and he's having a lot of trouble translating them to the pro game. I want nothing more than for him to experience great success in the league, but it's on him to keep improving and show that he is worth minutes.
 
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Yeah I'm not a fan of this move, I think the best possible spot would be anywhere he could be the main backup to a veteran solid starter, like LAC or SAS
 
Its a sideways move at best for Shabazz, but positive spin is he puts behind the LeBron's choice bitterness that he had to deal with in Miami. Bazz still has two years to make his mark in the league. I think he'll find a role either with Magic or somewhere else.

Don't get folks framing UConn players as a group struggling in NBA. Kemba, Rudy & Drummond are all just below all-star status.
 
Dogdeacon said:
Its a sideways move at best for Shabazz, but positive spin is he puts behind the LeBron's choice bitterness that he had to deal with in Miami. Bazz still has two years to make his mark in the league. I think he'll find a role either with Magic or somewhere else.

Don't get folks framing UConn players as a group struggling in NBA. Kemba, Rudy & Drummond are all just below all-star status.
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Fully agree
UConn holds it's own in NBA reputation the last 15 years
 
BUHusky10 said:
Agreed. Bazz doesn't have the liberty of guys with names that bring hype or the body type fans can see potential in. Shabazz is a purely skill player and most NBA fans don't follow UConn as closely as us so they don't see what we see in him. Just today in the r/NBA discussion of this trade even heat fans were bashing Shabazz as not making it in the league. Narratives change quickly and people can be reactionary. Orlando only giving up a protected second rounder doesn't do Bazz or UConn's NBA brand at the moment any favors either.

Recruiting is very cyclical and dependent on trends, which is why at the moment Duke and UK can pick any players they want with little resistance from competition. Why? Because recruits see their guys building their brand quickly and leaving early to be successful in the league. UConn had that same rep from the mid-90s to around 08/09. I remember watching old games on uconnhuskygames and hearing guys like Bilas and Vitale specifically mentioning how UConn and Calhoun "run a pro system with a coach who teaches guys the right way to play to be successful in the NBA". I don't hear sentiments like that anymore or with such praise. Luckily for us, there is no young coach more primed to get us back to that level than Ollie.
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Good points
Unless UConn turns into a 1 and done factory like UK and now Duke they will never be looked in the same light. Not sure I want it that way.
I will take UConn's NBA picture from 1995-2013 over Duke any day - probably even UK
 
Bazz couldn't guard anyone last year and shot poorly and turned the ball over too much. He did look good in summer league. Stiles was small player like Bazz and will give him a
shot at PT. Bazz can find himself a niche with this team if he duplicates his championship form. He needs not to turn the ball over and hit the open threes. He has to figure out a way to keep his man off the layup line. The fact that Payton can't shoot a lick helps Bazz a lot. Teams value 2nd round picks these days so Orlando wants to take a hard look at him. If Bazz plays at a high level for him, he could help this team and get consistent minutes especially if no one is hitting the three ball.. But he won't be a star. Orlando is great because Tampa gets all of the games.
 
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its honestly surprising how lazy and inept some uconn fans are about nba talk, lots of hasty generalizations in this thread.
 
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Orlando Magic: A
i

The worst thing that ever happened to Napier, as I see it, wasLeBron James tweeting about him during and after UConn's run to the 2014 NCAA championship. Around the league, James' tweets created the impression that Napier's first-round draft stock was the result of hype from his tournament performance rather than being justified by his entire four-year career. (Napier was drafted 24th -- exactly the same spot he ranked in my WARP projections.)

The hit was even worse in Miami, where Napier was seen as James' preferred choice, a troublesome association after James left the Heat to sign with theCleveland Cavaliers as a free agent weeks later. If James' endorsement had anything to do with Miami's decision, and even if it didn't, it's easy to see how regret was inevitable when Napier posted an uneven rookie season.

Let's be clear that Napier was OK as a rookie, not terrible. He rated basically right at replacement level by WARP and posted a credible minus-1.3 rating inESPN's real plus-minus -- better than Los Angeles Lakers rookie guard Jordan Clarkson (minus-2.4), among others. Napier was an older rookie - he turned 24 this month - but point guards tend to develop longer and later than players at other positions. As a result, I project, based on WARP and RPM, that Napier will develop into a two-win player by the end of his rookie contract, making him a strong value at his low salary. While it's tough to see Napier becoming a starter in the league, he could emerge as a solid backup point guard.

In particular, Napier looks like a useful backup to Magic starter Elfrid Paytonbecause his best skill (3-point shooting) is Payton's worst. Napier shot 36.4 percent from 3-point range as a rookie, a hair behind Rodney Hood (36.5 percent) for tops among players from the 2014 draft who attempted at least 100 triples. Like veteran C.J. Watson, signed as a free agent this summer, Napier gives Orlando a different look at the position. Given the low cost, adding Napier makes a lot of sense.
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miami got a C on the trade. this is from a credible stats guy on espn kevin pelton.
 
I don't agree with the thought that Shabazz doesn't have name recognition with NBA fans, you do see people down him because he's small or whatever, but you also see a lot of random comments on ESPN stories from non-UConn fans who became Shabazz fans during the 2014 Championship run. Shabazz was just a fun guy to watch, he'd put the shake on a guy and make a pretty move to the hoop, and then he would pull up for deep deep high pressure 3's in close games and just bury them. He's a gamer, and basketball fans like that because he makes the game entertaining. He definitely gets love and hate from the non-UConn basketball fans, so I don't think he's as under the radar as some think.

Due to the guy he became that last year at UConn, who always says the exact right thing in an interview, is always crediting the staff and the coaches and his fellow teammates, I can see him being Kevin Ollie 2.0, where an organization wants him as the 3rd PG option because they know he's not getting into any riff-raff and he is a solid character guy that you want in your locker room and you want pushing your younger guys to want to win.

The guy doesn't ever want to lose, and I think on a lot of the NBA teams with young squads that aren't expected to win a lot of games, the culture is just content with not letting the fans down rather than actually winning as many games as they can. Shabazz to me is a guy you can put in the game to give your starter a breather down 10 in the 3rd quarter, who can actually drive the team to catch up and make it a game.
 
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I give him a pass for his rookie year as Shabazz was hurt all last year, that sports hernia was a big problem for him. He was on minutes reserve during this year's summer league but he looked much quicker than last season. I expect him to play very well in Orlando.
 
Dogdeacon said:
Its a sideways move at best for Shabazz, but positive spin is he puts behind the LeBron's choice bitterness that he had to deal with in Miami. Bazz still has two years to make his mark in the league. I think he'll find a role either with Magic or somewhere else.

Don't get folks framing UConn players as a group struggling in NBA. Kemba, Rudy & Drummond are all just below all-star status.
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Compared to the mid-00s, they are. The group of Ray, Hamilton, Donyell, young Caron, Emeka, Ben and Cliff Robinson still as a productive reserve definitely outshines the current group. To pretend that there hasn't been at least a slight drop-off is just fantasy.
 
Stairmaster said:
I agree that maybe other fans might not be giving him a fair shake, but to think that UConn fans have a better, less biased view of who Shabazz is? That's ludicrous. If you read the Summer League thread, you'd think that anything he did badly was 100% the fault of James Ennis or Tyler Johnson.

Bottom line, making contested 3s in the NBA is a lot harder than it is in college. Same with putting the move on a guy and driving into the paint. Those were Shabazz's bread and butter for us, and he's having a lot of trouble translating them to the pro game. I want nothing more than for him to experience great success in the league, but it's on him to keep improving and show that he is worth minutes.
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Why wouldn't UConn fans who saw him play for four years be in a better position to evaluate him than others.
Especially if he was injured last year.
 
AZHuskiePop said:
Why wouldn't UConn fans who saw him play for four years be in a better position to evaluate him than others.
Especially if he was injured last year.
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This is silly. UConn fans lionize him and have a natural bias in favor of him. Because he led us to a national title, many will feel that they cannot say anything negative about his later performance out of respect to him. Also, since the '14 run is the major memory that most associate with him, people tend to see NBA Shabazz as our Shabazz. It doesn't matter that he's going against NBA defenses, they still see him as a guy who can make contested threes and drive to the hoop at will like he was for us.
 
Stairmaster said:
Compared to the mid-00s, they are. The group of Ray, Hamilton, Donyell, young Caron, Emeka, Ben and Cliff Robinson still as a productive reserve definitely outshines the current group. To pretend that there hasn't been at least a slight drop-off is just fantasy.
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I think that's right and there is a slight dropoff. I was pointing out others are over-focused on the failures. One current issue is the best of the UConn pros are not on playoff teams. But also can't sugarcoat the past, everyone expected more from Emeka, Donyell was also never the all-star his college career may have foretold and Ben's rep turned into gunner only.
 
The handful of Miami games that I watched last season, it seemed like Shabbaz wasn't playing with nearly the level of confidence that he did at UConn. He seemed to start off the season strongly, but his confidence and his playing time, seemed to disappear as the season progressed. While he may never be an all-star, or even a starter, he has enough talent to make a nice career in the NBA. He just needs to believe and play the way that got him to be a first round draft pick.
 
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To start the season last year, Shabazz was playing really well, scoring in the double digits 5 games in a row or something like that. Then all of a sudden Coach Spo starts having him ride the pine, and sent him to D league a coupe times. Totally stunted his growth in my opinion. I've never liked the Heat, and was so divided watching Bazz playing for them.
Now I come across this gem from the Heat:
### One NBA general manager who spoke to the Heat said Heat brass realized Shabazz Napier “was not good enough. At that size (6-1), you have to be really quick or a very good shooter, and he’s neither.”...

I hope Bazz comes back and sticks it to the Heat organization this upcoming season.

http://sircharlesincharge.com/2015/...-didnt-belive-shabazz-napier-was-good-enough/
 
really don't get how napier gets this rep 'he can't shoot'. you mean he can't finish at the rim right? he can clearly shoot, second in his class from trey.

whatever though, he should emerge as a solid backup to Payton. As far as roster fit its fantastic, thats a team that needs shooting desperately at the guard spot. you can dual pg it up with him and payton. He just needs to outplay vet cj watson, or wait for his inevitable injury. Scott skiles, newly minted magic coach, is very defensive minded but isn't really afraid to play guys (most recent relevant coaching stint was the '10 bucks. pretty much 10 deep. played ridnour a bunch of minutes who is comparable to napier). Also an ex player so he brings a different approach than a film room guy a la spo.
 
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