Shabazz and DeAndre

[AZHuskiePop]

In the 1970's


John Sterling (the current Yankee announcer) had a sports call in show. I never forgot what he said about all star teams and MVPs
"Its nice for those people who are recognized but the reality its pretty meaningless and a waste of time to argue about "

 

[James]

Please don't compare Ricky Moore and Rash Jones to Boatright and Kromah by using numbers. Basketball teams need some players to produce numbers, but they don't need all players to produce numbers, and neither Boatright nor Kromah is anywhere near as helpful to a team winning games and championships as Moore and Jones.

Basketball teams dont need players to produce numbers... so what the hell are they doing out there? Nowadays we have stats that measure essentially the entire capacity of a player. Boats not a winner? You conclude this after his sophomore season ? With all the work he's put in this summer , theres no reason to not to believe hell be just as valuable as Moore and Jones to a winning team. You're probably just rubbed wrong by his personality

 

[diggerfoot]

Oh its on! First, how do you underestimate a NC team that went 34-2. Exalting this team is far from underestimating the '99 team. That being said, your critique of my post (#9) where I am replying to post #4, in which HailUconn states that if Deandre/Shabazz have a Rip/Khalid season we can win the NC is a little harsh. I think if Deandre and Shabazz have that type of season, the key ingredient to a NC is the 5 spot.

In '99 Voskuhl averaged 21.3 mpg, 6.4 rpg, 5.5 ppg, 1.5 bpg and played inspired interior defense guarding the lane like a dog guarding a pile of bacon . If Olander or Nolan can give us that type of season (not inconceivable) with solid bench support, we could get a Voskuhl type season at the 5.

I think Deandre plays Freeman's position (12.2 ppg, 7.3 rpg in '99) and has the potential to be better than Freeman at offense and rebounding, but probably won't ever be as good a defender though he's not bad. Shabazz is better than Khalid (13.3 ppg, 3.9 apg in '99) and could have a Hamiltonesqe season although he probably won't match his point totals. While Moore may have been the best defensive UConn guard in the history of the program Boatright is no slouch and will score a lot more points and assists than Moore did in '99 (6.8 ppg, 3.6 apg). As for Mouring and Jones, Mouring as a Soph. averaged 7.1 ppg that year and Jones, although the Sr. Captain that year, only played 10 mpg and averaged 3.5 ppg, unlike in '97 where he average 10+ ppg. Kromah could singlehandedly give us that type of scoring off the bench. Finally, Rip played the 3 that year and was unstoppable. Calhoun and Giffey, while not Rip, will hold down that position by committee and could give us 20+ ppg and 10+ rpg as a unit. If we get Facey eligible and he provides a spark off the bench that's another plus.

Accordingly, I think that we could have a '99 caliber season provided KO gets these guys to play defense like that '99 team, who always could get key stops. Again, the biggest question mark is the 5 spot, which only has to be as good as Voskuhl was in '99 to give us a solid shot at a run to the NC.

So, in conclusion - take that Huskybass.

I think you sort of one-upped the claim of Voskuhl not being fully appreciated, for your numbers don't reveal Voskuhl's ability to screen, outlet pass, team defense, foot work and running the floor. The latter is what attracted him to Calhoun; admittedly, that's the one area where I see this squad potentially doing as well at the five. Integration into a team defense? I'm doubtful we'll have a five like that this year, but perhaps. However, I seriously doubt we see a five this year who will outlet or screen as well as Voskuhl, or matches his defensive footwork.

That's not to say we don't have a chance at the championship. After all, we've won it three different ways so far. Why not add a fourth?

 

[businesslawyer]

Basketball teams dont need players to produce numbers... so what the hell are they doing out there? Nowadays we have stats that measure essentially the entire capacity of a player. Boats not a winner? You conclude this after his sophomore season ? With all the work he's put in this summer , theres no reason to not to believe hell be just as valuable as Moore and Jones to a winning team. You're probably just rubbed wrong by his personality

That must be it. It must be his personality. Couldn't be determining his basketball i.q. from all the games I watched each of them play.

 

[James]

That must be it. It must be his personality. Couldn't be determining his basketball i.q. from all the games I watched each of them play.

Statsheet.com backs what I say. What about you? Eye test ? Boat does different things and has a different role than those guys did. he's a way better finisher in the paint than EITHER. and that was just his sophomore season. youre talking out youre a** with all that revisionist history. He makes a leap in offensive/defensive awareness(see walker kemba) and he's one three best players on a winning team.

 

[7774]

Statsheet.com backs what I say. What about you? Eye test ? Boat does different things and has a different role than those guys did. he's a way better finisher in the paint then EITHER. and that was just his sophomore season. your talking out youre a* with all that revisionist history. He makes a leap in offensive/defensive awareness(see walker kemba) and he's one three best players on a winning team.

To me finishing in the paint was one of Boat's weaknesses last year. He was constantly getting himself stuck in the air with no place to go, or getting his shot stuffed due to his lack of strength.

 

[Kitaman]

Voskuhl also brought leadership, which none of the 5 have even with a senior. I will never forget Calhoun lashing something fierce into Mourning, I mean really ripping him a new balloon knot. Jake reached over and consoled Mouring right in front of Coach assuring him not to take it personally. Jake certainly was a respected leader in that group.

 

[James]

To me finishing in the paint was one of Boat's weaknesses last year. He was constantly getting himself stuck in the air with no place to go, or getting his shot stuffed due to his lack of strength.

So he's not a three point shooter and he's 'constantly getting stuck in air and getting his shot stuffed', where are all those 2pt field goals (shooting 47%) coming from ? Fine he's a better mid range player than either. Man... We've seen this happen with a strikingly similar pg, whose sophomore year line also compares favorably to boats; and some of you are still writing him off. Stay tuned all the haters saying he has poor bb iq and is not a team player.

 

[7774]

So he's not a three point shooter and he's 'constantly getting stuck in air and getting his shot stuffed', where are all those 2pt field goals (shooting 47%) coming from ? Fine he's a better mid range player than either. Man... We've seen this happen with a strikingly similar pg, whose sophomore year line also compares favorably to boats; and some of you are still writing him off. Stay tuned all the haters saying he has poor bb iq and is not a team player.

You're not helping your argument bringing up Kemba. He's so special because that type of leap happens very, very rarely.

 

[ctchamps]

To me finishing in the paint was one of Boat's weaknesses last year. He was constantly getting himself stuck in the air with no place to go, or getting his shot stuffed due to his lack of strength.

Things went down hill for Ryan after his knee sprain mid January. He played through the sprain all season because they couldn't afford to rest him, but his acceleration was certainly missing after the sprain occurred. I'm hoping his knee has fully healed. I'm also hoping RB has worked on dribbling with his head up and creates to pass a little more often than he did last season.

 

[James]

You're not helping your argument bringing up Kemba. He's so special because that type of leap happens very, very rarely.

The argument is 'boat has no chance whatsoever to be as valuable to a winning team as Moore and Jones were'. Raw data refutes this, boats lack of awareness has officially become overstated. I'm not saying he's walker, but nobody should be suggesting he comes back the same player he was last season. It doesn't make sense considering his gradually improvement since his tumultuous freshman season.

 

[7774]

The argument is 'boat has no chance whatsoever to be as valuable to a winning team as Moore and Jones were'. Raw data refutes this, boats lack of awareness has officially become overstated. I'm not saying he's walker, but nobody should be suggesting he comes back the same player he was last season. It doesn't make sense considering his gradually improvement since his tumultuous freshman season.

No idea what raw data you're talking about, or how it refutes anything, but yes, I don't think Boat has much chance to become as valuable a college player as Ricky Moore was, at least not this year.

Ricky was valuable in ways that stats just do not capture. If he was on our team this year, we could just check Russ Smith off as being non existent in the games we play against Louisville, and worry about everyone else. Russ wouldn't do anything when he had the ball, and when he passed the ball, Ricky wouldn't let anyone pass it back to him. That just has an insane amount of value. It changes everything Louisville wants to do.

And Ricky would do the same thing to the best perimeter player on all the other teams.

 

[James]

No idea what raw data you're talking about, or how it refutes anything, but yes, I don't think Boat has much chance to become as valuable player a college player as Ricky Moore was, at least not this year.

Ricky was valuable in ways that stats just do not capture. If he was on our team this year, we could just check Russ Smith off as being non existent in the games we play against Louisville, and worry about everyone else. Russ wouldn't do anything when he had the ball, and when he passed the ball, Ricky wouldn't let anyone pass it back to him. That just has an insane amount of value. It changes everything Louisville wants to do.

And Ricky would do the same thing to the best perimeter player on all the other teams.

Can't argue with stuff you can't quantify, like saying Moore could lock down any perimeter player over the last decade or so (which is kind of absurd) .fine, but don't sit here and tell me boatright can't do for this team what jones did for 99. they don't even have the same role, so I won't even bring up how much better rb's numbers are. ryan has to be one of our three best players this year for winning to happen, and he has that ability ; deal with it.

 

[CAHUSKY]

Jam

Can't argue with stuff you can't quantify, like saying Moore could lock down any perimeter player over the last decade or so (which is kind of absurd) .fine, but don't sit here and tell me boatright can't do for this team what jones did for 99. they don't even have the same role, so I won't even bring up how much better rb's numbers are. ryan has to be one of our three best players this year for winning to happen, and he has that ability ; deal with it.

James, are you old enough to have seen Ricky play?

 

[7774]

Can't argue with stuff you can't quantify, like saying Moore could lock down any perimeter player over the last decade or so (which is kind of absurd) .fine, but don't sit here and tell me boatright can't do for this team what jones did for 99. they don't even have the same role, so I won't even bring up how much better rb's numbers are. ryan has to be one of our three best players this year for winning to happen, and he has that ability ; deal with it.

I'm not sure what I need to deal with. I like Boat as a player, and who he seems to be as a person. I think he's a good college player and his development is critical to our success this year.

I also think Ricky is the more valuable college player. He shut down Allen Iverson . Who from the last decade is a more difficult cover than Allen Iverson? I'm guessing based on your comments that you were probably a little kid when Ricky played for UCONN.

 

[James]

Jam

James, are you old enough to have seen Ricky play?

guessing based on your comments that you were probably a little kid when Ricky played for UCONN.

Ha. Typical boneyard response.'youre not old enough to remember the greatness of rashmel jones' . FOH , did you guys not see my post where I conceded on my Moore comments ? It's a shame you don't recognize boats talent. No skin off my back, difference of opinion I guess.

 

[CAHUSKY]

Ha. Typical boneyard response.'youre not old enough to remember the greatness of rashmel jones' . FOH , did you guys not see my post where I conceded on my Moore comments ? It's a shame you don't recognize boats talent. No skin off my back, difference of opinion I guess.

My question had nothing to do with Boat. It had to do with whether you had the requisite knowledge to make the comparison.

 

[babysheep]

HUH? A Jake Voskuhl type season? Jake was AMAZING that year. He did all the little things that help win championships. That is not something that is easily duplicated. AND the 99 team was absolutely loaded. Hamilton was a superstar, Khalid was a star, KFree and Jake were warriors and Ricky was the best defensive guard we have ever had, plus we had Rash Jones and Albert Mouring coming off the bench. I think you are seriously underestimating that 99 squad.

Yeah because Niels doesn't already do the little things that win championships....

Shabazz is a superstar. DD is a star, and Boat can be one too. The entire team is made up of warriors. Niels is an outstanding defensive guard. Plus we have OC coming off the bench. I think you might be underestimating this 2013 squad.

 

[James]

My question had nothing to do with Boat. It had to do with whether you had the requisite knowledge to make the comparison.

Well I'm 32 so yeah. I think we're moving away from what I originally had an issue with, which was a poster saying 'Boatright can't contribute to a winning team the way Moore and Jones did' and taking shots at his bb iq. well uconn has the talent to make a run w/ boat being 1/3 best players on the team. So that statement is ludicrous. Boat can play big time winning basketball

 

[Scot-e]

^ I'm with James as far as Boat is concerned. Ricky was a defensive stud- Boat is an offense minded guard- hard to compare someone to a player that so dissimilar and nearly a legend at UCONN- not fair. If we get to the FF this year and are in the NC game and Boat drains a 3 from 35 feet to win the game- then we could compare the two players and what they mean to this program.

We have one of the best backcourts in the country this year and Boat is a big reason for that- whoever is hating on Boat is just plain wrong about him- he is going to be a beast this year.

 

[joober jones]

More of a joke? Ben Habsbrough winning BE POY. Kid probably slept in a kemba walker jersey... Where's he playing now, Ireland?

I didn't know Ireland had YMCA rec leagues.

 

[Goat]

You're not helping your argument bringing up Kemba. He's so special because that type of leap happens very, very rarely.

First, this team has more weapons that the Kemba NC team. This is especially true at this point in the season. Boatright will not see much double coverage.


IMHO - There is a possible parallel to Kemba. Sophomore Kemba lacked the complete game he had at the end of his Junior NC year. RB has comparable speed. Enough improvement driving the ball and making jumpers and he could well be Kemba like. If he is good enough to have his man ass over tea kettle trying to stop him from driving, the fall away will be there for the taking. When you're goood enough to make them try to stay close enough to guard the jump shot, it gets easier to blow by. This yin and yang effect is the same as a balanced run/pass attack in football or returning serve in tennis. A good player is going to blow it by if you wait at the baseline and spin it out of reach you play behind it.

I would love to see Boat reprise the leg breaking moves of Mr. Walker vs. Pitt.

 

[businesslawyer]

Basketball teams dont need players to produce numbers... so what the hell are they doing out there? Nowadays we have stats that measure essentially the entire capacity of a player. Boats not a winner? You conclude this after his sophomore season ? With all the work he's put in this summer , theres no reason to not to believe hell be just as valuable as Moore and Jones to a winning team. You're probably just rubbed wrong by his personality

I'm not sure where your belligerence comes from, but let me make this clear to you. Ricky Moore had the best year of perimeter defense that I have ever seen a college player have in my 54 years. To even pretend to compare that to anything Boatright has done to date -- which, to date, is to be a good guard with the athleticism and potential to be a very good guard -- is dumb. And I've seen Kromah play for 3 years and saw Jones play for 4. Jones finished his career as a role player at UConn, as I expect Kromah to do. Kromah has tons -- tons -- to show me before he will convince me that he knows how to contribute to other people being the stars, while he does the dirty work, that Jones did.

Yes, someone disagrees with you so it must be they don't like Boatright's attitude. Boatright is a good player and Kromah is a casual friend of my son's from GW. Call me when they're wearing rings in early April and we'll talk.

 

[caw]

Can't argue with stuff you can't quantify, like saying Moore could lock down any perimeter player over the last decade or so (which is kind of absurd) .fine, but don't sit here and tell me boatright can't do for this team what jones did for 99. they don't even have the same role, so I won't even bring up how much better rb's numbers are. ryan has to be one of our three best players this year for winning to happen, and he has that ability ; deal with it.

You can quantify Moores defensive abilities actually. Just look up how opposing guards faired against him. He was a beast defensively. Shame his injuries really curtailed his offensive game.

As to the argument Boatright is only starting his third year, Moore as a freshman and sophomore was good, but not great and probably fairly comparable to what Boatright has done in two years, Moore may probably be behind.

 

[champs99and04]

Please don't compare Ricky Moore and Rash Jones to Boatright and Kromah by using numbers. Basketball teams need some players to produce numbers, but they don't need all players to produce numbers, and neither Boatright nor Kromah is anywhere near as helpful to a team winning games and championships as Moore and Jones.

Hard to say that in a vacuum. If you were to replace Ryan Boatright with Ricky Moore on the 2012-13 Huskies, I don't think they win 20 games. That team needed Boatright to score and create. If Boatright isn't on that team, you legitimately would have only had one reliable offensive option for the first two months of the season.

Of course, it's doubtful the 99 team wins the championship without Ricky. I think it's a matter of contrasting skill sets that can be more or less valuable depending on roster composition.