Seth Greenberg weighs in: "not good for WCBB" | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Seth Greenberg weighs in: "not good for WCBB"

noirwestern said:
Here's a hint, it involves a whole lot of rich, Corinthian leather. A lot.
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Ah. I can still see Ricardo saying that. BTW, that "Corinthian leather" mostly came from New Jersey.... :)
 
UConn WBB fans are in the most enviable position of any sports fans, any sport, probably ever. No-one in their right mind would argue this is "good" for the sport, but it is what it is, and nothing is going to change real soon. Not our problem the team is so good, so often. As my sainted mother used to say eons ago when I'd get my knickers in a twist over some snarky comment or another, "Consider the source, son, consider the source." Chill.
 
Zanzman said:
When 1 vs 10 you want close competition not this game non uconn fans want to see close not a 30 pint blow out is his point and he’s right
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Seth is absolutely right. That game stunk for anyone outside CT. Totally uninteresting. Geno knows it too. That’s why he played the subs more than usual. He did his best to keep the score down. It was too late. Everyone but UConn fans stopped watching at halftime.
 
augustaTC said:
UConn WBB fans are in the most enviable position of any sports fans, any sport, probably ever. No-one in their right mind would argue this is "good" for the sport, but it is what it is, and nothing is going to change real soon. Not our problem the team is so good, so often. As my sainted mother used to say eons ago when I'd get my knickers in a twist over some snarky comment or another, "Consider the source, son, consider the source." Chill.
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You are 100% right. How many games will be worth watching if you want competitiveness? Regular season games I say two- South Carolina and UCLA. Everyone else sucks including my favorite team Louisville next to UConn. What can you do? Nothing because no one can compete with them. Walz, McGraw and Mulkey do there best but they can’t compete. Thank you Morgan William!!
 
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oldude said:
I'm being argumentative? HH, I don't believe that Stanford-tOSU was a blowout, at least not by my standard. For the record, I define a blowout as a game that is clearly a mismatch from the start,, i.e. Stanford-UConn, and also for the record, this discussion has nothing to do with Seth's point that WBB needs compelling games, i.e. Louisville-tOSU to generate greater fan interest.
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Yes the Louisville OSU game was a thriller. Not nearly as fundamentally sound as a UConn team for sure but it was compelling and not a snooze fest
 
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VAMike23 said:
Was there an earlier tweet that Seth deleted?
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It appears that he did delete his original tweet. UConn Nation has descended upon him lol.
 
shizam said:
You are 100% right. How many games will be worth watching if you want competitiveness? Regular season games I say two- South Carolina and UCLA. Everyone else sucks including my favorite team Louisville next to UConn. What can you do? Nothing because no one can compete with them. Walz, McGraw and Mulkey do there best but they can’t compete. Thank you Morgan William!!
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Vic Schaefer is a good example. An excellent coach who's spent what, 6 years?, building his program, brick by brick, and he made it to the finals, slaying the dragon along the way. I suspect because of it they'll get better attendance this year, more recruits know who they are, and hopefully the school will give them what they need to compete facility-wise. And he'll continue to build his team and his culture and he'll win. But it doesn't happen easily or overnight. Find a couple of dozen coaches like Schaefer, support them and one day Geno will be retired and the era of truly competitive and balanced women's college basketball will dawn. In the meantime, we can enjoy what we have, but it won't last forever. Only one Geno Auriemma.
 
Plebe said:
A couple issues I have with his comment. First, I'm willing to bet he wasn't even watching the game. He's in some studio somewhere watching MEN'S basketball and only occasionally checking the UConn score.

Second, why didn't he complain about the one-sided Stanford-Ohio State game? I suspect he wasn't even aware of it.
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Speaking of watching stuff, has anyone seen the post game press conference video? If so, please attach the link.
 
augustaTC said:
Vic Schaefer is a good example. An excellent coach who's spent what, 6 years?, building his program, brick by brick, and he made it to the finals, slaying the dragon along the way. I suspect because of it they'll get better attendance this year, more recruits know who they are, and hopefully the school will give them what they need to compete facility-wise. And he'll continue to build his team and his culture and he'll win. But it doesn't happen easily or overnight. Find a couple of dozen coaches like Schaefer, support them and one day Geno will be retired and the era of truly competitive and balanced women's college basketball will dawn. In the meantime, we can enjoy what we have, but it won't last forever. Only one Geno Auriemma.
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I think there will always be a few very superior teams. Some that are sort of always such and others that drift in and out, such as Mississippi State may become for a few years (or longer). UConn is in a class by itself.

As to the point made not far above - yep, quit watching at the half. Wasn't the only game I quit watching at the half (or earlier) today. Even the decent teams are mostly playing nobody. (UConn just makes their opponents look like nobody). Seth is in general correct, even if the UConn game today was not the spot to raise the point. A piece of the "gaining fans" puzzle is certainly having some competition for best team. Right now - and for a very long time - there is and has been only one best team, the only question is if they can be "upset", as happened last year. Not UConn's fault - but it is the way it is, and until more coaches can get the support they need and develop better teams and attract the recruits they need that are often attracted to a relatively short list of teams . . . things won't change.
 
vowelguy said:
So a non-WCBB analyst should know that all the coaches and WCBB writers who ranked Stanford #10 don't know what they're doing?
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Stanford will get better and dominate their league on their way to the their league championship and the NCAA'S.
 
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Is the problem that those who rated Stanford overestimated what they had remaining? They lost a lot. However, Tara will find something that works and add in that a buzzsaw just shredded them but time will tell.
 
vowelguy said:
Simple fact, #1 beating #10, 49-14 at the half is not going to draw in the casual viewer. I don't understand why folks have such a hard time accepting that reality.

Point #2: Seth knows Geno from when they were both assistants at UVa (he with the men) in the early 80s.
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Because the fact is UConn games have been highly rated for several years. For all who say it hurts the game, Nielsen ratings don't seem to agree. And Stanford is clearly not a top 10 team right now. He may have a larger point, but first game out of the gate........he is better than that. Not much better, but better than that.
 
MilliniumPrince said:
Because the fact is UConn games have been highly rated for several years. For all who say it hurts the game, Nielsen ratings don't seem to agree. And Stanford is clearly not a top 10 team right now. He may have a larger point, but first game out of the gate...he is better than that. Not much better, but better than that.
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I said something similar about the timing of his remark above. But as to the ratings - UConn games would, of course, get good viewership - they have a large fan base, it is a very attractive style of basketball played at a very high level and often the match-up appears to be compelling.

The larger point has nothing to do with UConn - and actually, although I echo the need for other teams to step up - little to do with them either. The larger point is just there is little compelling in WBB to attract the non-fan. Not sure what can be done about it, but ultimately the only compelling stories at this point are all about UConn - how long will their streak(s) run, how many NC's can they win, etc. Obviously a great rivalry, such as UConn and Tennessee were at one time wouldn't hurt, but I don't see any candidate to challenge you.
 
I love the board. I enjoy many insights you guys make. I just wanted to comment on Seth. I met him when I was covering Basketball SEC media day. Uconn just one the national championship in 2000. He asked Pat for her reaction. He comes from Philly. He talked to me about how great Geno is as a coach. I learned so much about the Uconn program from him. Before then I hadn't followed the women's team. I am from ct and enjoyed his drilling Pat on several questions. Pat was classy and told the room of reporters that Uconn flat out beat us. Even though Seth might have said something touching some the wrong way, I wanted to give him some love. thx
 
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IMHO, most of the time, anyone who tunes in a UCONN WCBB game because they want to watch closely-fought, competitive basketball has chosen the wrong game. If they want to watch well-played basketball -- at least by one team -- they came to the right place. There is a difference in these two motivations.
 
willtalk said:
That along with a couple of french noblemen.
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My favorite was a Spaniard, Don Alfonso Antonio Vicente Eduardo Angel Blas Francisco de Borja Cabeza de Vaca y Leighton, Carvajal y Are, Conde de la Mejorada, Marquis de Portago. AKA "Fon".
 
If i read the tweets correctly by Seth..... it is no harm saying that it is a shame no team can compete consistently with UConn..... and i do not have a problem with folks voicing the opinion on whether it is good or bad for the game..... it is.... after all.... their opinion...... what is not palatable is when the argument extends to us..... and saying that the fault lies with us.....

Others can compete..... Notre Dame in 2001 when we had a great roster...... Skylar Diggins and her teams had our number for 2 or 3 years..... Vic did a great job last year as has been pointed out.... and has built his program from the ground up ....like Scott R at Oregon State .....

There are very good teams out there..... I heard on Maryland broadcast today that Texas has 10 McDonalds All Americans on their roster .... Wow!!! I have never heard of this number of top tiered players on any team before....... Tennessee the last year or two had 6 or 7 McDs... more than any other team they played..... Baylor, South Carolina...... plenty of competition and great competition at that....

As always with the women's game it comes down to coaching..... and thankful we have had the best for some time....
 
Does anyone doubt that it would be better for WCBB if there were AT LEAST one other team that is pretty consistently at the level of UConn, as Notre Dame was for about 3 years and as Tennessee was for over a decade? Maybe Baylor or Texas will get there -- based on their recruiting and their rosters, they probably should be there already.

You can't ignore the fact that last year's NC game (Miss St vs. South Carolina) got about 30% higher ratings than the UConn vs. Syracuse game the previous year. I wonder if it got better ratings than the UConn vs. Notre Dame NC game (was it in 2013?) where both teams entered the game undefeated. Somehow, I doubt it. The attraction last year was that the game didn't involve UConn, and therefore the outcome was not seen as pre-ordained. At least, that is my assessment.

The difficulty in having more than one team at UConn's level is that there are no other coaches like Geno, and there are unlikely to be any for several decades. By now, his proven reputation (acknowledged even by rivals when they are being honest) for developing talented players more fully than any other coach has earned him access to the very best players. As long as he is able to do that, his reign over WCBB will continue.

On that note, I saw when I watched the Steelers vs. Titans game last Thursday night that Tennessee's defensive coordinator, Dick Lebeau, has just enjoyed his 80th birthday. He used to be the Steelers' defensive coordinator, but they eased him out in 2015 so that his younger protégé could take over the job. But Lebeau found that he was restless in retirement, so he returned to the sideline. Until last week's game, his defense had been carrying the Titans to a 6-3 record, and for two and half quarters it looked like they would stifle the Steelers' offense as well.

Imagine if Geno takes after Lebeau and continues to be an effective coach after his 80th birthday!?
 
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JoePgh said:
Imagine if Geno takes after Lebeau and continues to be an effective coach after his 80th birthday!?
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That could be really, really, really bad for women's basketball...:rolleyes:
 
JoePgh said:
Does anyone doubt that it would be better for WCBB if there were AT LEAST one other team that is pretty consistently at the level of UConn, as Notre Dame was for about 3 years and as Tennessee was for over a decade? Maybe Baylor or Texas will get there -- based on their recruiting and their rosters, they probably should be there already.

You can't ignore the fact that last year's NC game (Miss St vs. South Carolina) got about 30% higher ratings than the UConn vs. Syracuse game the previous year. I wonder if it got better ratings than the UConn vs. Notre Dame NC game (was it in 2013?) where both teams entered the game undefeated. Somehow, I doubt it. The attraction last year was that the game didn't involve UConn, and therefore the outcome was not seen as pre-ordained. At least, that is my assessment.

The difficulty in having more than one team at UConn's level is that there are no other coaches like Geno, and there are unlikely to be any for several decades. By now, his proven reputation (acknowledged even by rivals when they are being honest) for developing talented players more fully than any other coach has earned him access to the very best players. As long as he is able to do that, his reign over WCBB will continue.

On that note, I saw when I watched the Steelers vs. Titans game last Thursday night that Tennessee's defensive coordinator, Dick Lebeau, has just enjoyed his 80th birthday. He used to be the Steelers' defensive coordinator, but they eased him out in 2015 so that his younger protégé could take over the job. But Lebeau found that he was restless in retirement, so he returned to the sideline. Until last week's game, his defense had been carrying the Titans to a 6-3 record, and for two and half quarters it looked like they would stifle the Steelers' offense as well.

Imagine if Geno takes after Lebeau and continues to be an effective coach after his 80th birthday!?
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Or maybe many people tuned in to watch a very good 2-seed team - the team that knocked off UCONN play a number 1 seed? The year before was it UCONN was the issue or was it Syracuse -- whom by the way had a pretty good team but gets how many fans to their games? Is their low attendance because UCONN is "bad for the game" too?

When I took a family a few games - the young boys 1st year thought it was cool, after that -- they would talk about men's hoop. The men play a lot of close games. You think that's it? I don't. It's the athleticism. The dunks. The electricity. Why do you think the dunk competition is still going on? Why is it often if you watch ESPN - they'll show off quite a few dunks as highlights?

I never thought this many years ago- but I've some time ago since changed my mind. The hoops need to be lowered. Not sure how old you are but when I was in my teens and twenties a very very very very very long ago- and I was with a gorup of my friends or very young with my family, do you think I cared about "the beauty of the game?" Or do you think many young guys would be more excited watching a Jordan twist through the air changing the ball from his right hand to his left while he makes some miraculous shot?

IMO you are kidding yourself if you believe that many of those fans that watched the Miss State USC game that didn't watch the UCONN- Cuse game would be wcbb fans just if UCONN's dominance went away. Can you imagine if Gabby at 5'10 or so did a power dunk over 6'4 Monique Billings at one end while at the other end Billings did a one hand slam off an alley-oop at the other end? Forget the "novelty" just suppose dunking was happening - but if they lowered the rim and you had women players with their heads near the rim both blocking shots, and dunking - that that wouldn't be more attraction to young guys from 10-30 years old vs. a close game? Isn't it that many men don't watch wcbb?

Just take a look at the finals from years ago - one UCONN's all-time best teams vs probably one of Stanford's all-time best teams. The halftime score was 20-12. IT WAS CLOSE. Stanford "could have won" before the game started. Stanford was a scary opponent. At halftime they were ahead by 8. Do you seriously think this would have attracted many young guys in 10-30 year old range? It is in my opinion that it's so out of touch to believe "the beauty of ball movement" and/or "close games" will attract fans when as a frustrated Knicks fan - I've seen many years Madison Square Garden packed while their team leader Carmelo Anthony is known for playing isolation basketball and their teams just stunk. How many close games do you think the Knicks played vs the elite teams vs the bad teams? More fans would come and watch the elite teams regardless of the score, wouldn't they?

One of the most exciting college teams when I was in my early twenties was team in Houston that went by the nickname of Phi Slama Jama. You don't think guys like "Clyde The Glide Drexler" and Hakeem The Dream Olajuwon" and Larry Mr Mean Micheaux and Benny The Bomber From Bernice Anders didn't electrify audiences whether a game was close or not?

IMO you poll guys in that 10-30 range and you ask them would they prefer to watch a close women's game or watch Phi Slama Type team - most in that range will want to be electrified by Phi Slama Jama. -- Not me. :)
Though I'm older. The dunk as a kid or when I was much younger with my friends watching was damn exciting. There is a reason why I was so amazed as kid watching "The Human Highlight Film" - Dominique Wilkins. Did I care in my teens whether the game was close or not? The family I took to the game- they want to be electrified too imo. They don't care about the "analysis" and "beauty of ball movement" etc. Now what about if I was 13 and saw Gabby Williams as "The Human Highlight Film?" That link below - that close game would do absolutely nothing for me at 13 years old - or if I were with friends at 18 or 22 etc. I doubt it would do a damn thing for many guys in 10-30 range. And at the time these were two very powerful teams.

UCONNHUSKIES.COM :: University Of Connecticut Official Athletic Site University Of Connecticut Official Athletic Site - Women's Basketball
 
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wallman said:
Is the problem that those who rated Stanford overestimated what they had remaining? They lost a lot. However, Tara will find something that works and add in that a buzzsaw just shredded them but time will tell.
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Agree on this. The preseason polls are to blame...not UConn for making Stanford #10. You saw right away Ohio St beat them...and Louisville beating Ohio St. Based on this, the marquee game would be UConn vs Louisville! :rolleyes:
 
tomcat said:
IMHO, most of the time, anyone who tunes in a UCONN WCBB game because they want to watch closely-fought, competitive basketball has chosen the wrong game. If they want to watch well-played basketball -- at least by one team -- they came to the right place. There is a difference in these two motivations.
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I disagree just a little, "anyone who tunes in a UCONN WCBB game because they want to watch closely-fought, competitive basketball has chosen the wrong game." In my mind they have chosen the wrong team!
 
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