Serah Williams Force Awakens - Review w/ spoilers (Don't read until after you see it) | Page 5 | The Boneyard

Serah Williams Force Awakens - Review w/ spoilers (Don't read until after you see it)

If we're starting to post reddit theories, here is my favorite. I was so pumped up after reading it, but it's just not going to come true...

https://www.reddit.com/r/FanTheorie...force_awakens_theory_rey_is_not_who_we_think/

Also watch:

A couple of parts in the movie that stood out to me that could "support" this theory.

  • When Rey is being interrogated by Kylo, she reaches into his mind and blurts out, "You're afraid. That you'll never be as powerful as DARTH VADER." She says it with such emphasis that it almost seems like she wants to say, "You'll never be as powerful as ME."
  • Rey putting on the Republic pilot helmet at the beginning of the movie... doesn't Anakin do this in episode 1? Or something similar with another helmet? Maybe I need to rewatch it..
  • When Rey channels the force during her duel with Kylo and starts beating the piss out of him. The entire sequence of her kicking Kylo to the ground and just glaring over him like she owns him just screamed Anakin to me. It's also a definite exposure to the dark side.
  • Who is Kylo talking about when he says "it IS you" during his duel with Rey.

I don't particularly agree with the part that Snoke is Palpatine.

As time passes it seems more unlikely that this will happen and that Rey is actually just Luke's daughter. Originally, to me, it just seemed like the movie was too obvious in wanting you to think Rey is Luke's daughter... but maybe that was their way of revealing it. If this theory SOMEHOW comes true, I will absolutely lose it in the theater.

Side note: Rey is amazing. I honestly don't think anyone else could have played this role. Daisy Ridley absolutely NAILED it... in her first major film. Kylo is an amazing character as well. Can't wait for Episode 8.
 
junglehusky said:
Sorry to divert the topic but this is making me go back to how Order 66 was dumb. Here's a bunch wizards with heightened senses and telekinetic powers and they get shot down by a bunch of grunts.

A better way to do it would have been to have all the Jedi at the temple when Anakin / Darth Vader went on his rampage. Instead of just killing younglings he'd take on all of the Jedi Masters at once - and win.




As far as the new trope of the kickass female lead goes, I do think it's getting a little stale (Hunger Games / Divergent / Fifth Wave etc etc), but it's better than telling girls that their role in the world is to sit in one location and wait for a male character to do all the action / story development. Princess Leia put a small dent in that old Hollywood trope, so did Ellen Ripley and Sarah Connor but it was still decades before it finally ended. The Bechdel test still applies to many scripts.

And all this stuff about "oh it's not realistic" --- Rocky was not realistic. John Wayne wouldn't last long in the Old West. Steven Segal would get his ass kicked in a street fight. Every 80's action hero would die in the first 2 minutes of a real gun battle. Hollywood is not realistic.
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Disagree re Segal, he had skills back in the day. I'm pretty sure he holds black belts in multiple disciplines.

Regarding Order 66, that's part of the prequel narrative that needs to purged from the Serah Williams "cannon" IMHO. IIRC, in the original book, Vader hunts down and kills the Jedi. That would have been so much better. Vader once turned, could have used the force to cloud his intentions and to defeat the Jedi, one by one. Could have been a great movie.
 
FeedTheDove said:
If we're starting to post reddit theories, here is my favorite. I was so pumped up after reading it, but it's just not going to come true...

https://www.reddit.com/r/FanTheorie...force_awakens_theory_rey_is_not_who_we_think/

Also watch:

A couple of parts in the movie that stood out to me that could "support" this theory.

  • When Rey is being interrogated by Kylo, she reaches into his mind and blurts out, "You're afraid. That you'll never be as powerful as DARTH VADER." She says it with such emphasis that it almost seems like she wants to say, "You'll never be as powerful as ME."
  • Rey putting on the Republic pilot helmet at the beginning of the movie... doesn't Anakin do this in episode 1? Or something similar with another helmet? Maybe I need to rewatch it..
  • When Rey channels the force during her duel with Kylo and starts beating the piss out of him. The entire sequence of her kicking Kylo to the ground and just glaring over him like she owns him just screamed Anakin to me. It's also a definite exposure to the dark side.
  • Who is Kylo talking about when he says "it IS you" during his duel with Rey.

I don't particularly agree with the part that Snoke is Palpatine.

As time passes it seems more unlikely that this will happen and that Rey is actually just Luke's daughter. Originally, to me, it just seemed like the movie was too obvious in wanting you to think Rey is Luke's daughter... but maybe that was their way of revealing it. If this theory SOMEHOW comes true, I will absolutely lose it in the theater.

Side note: Rey is amazing. I honestly don't think anyone else could have played this role. Daisy Ridley absolutely NAILED it... in her first major film. Kylo is an amazing character as well. Can't wait for Episode 8.
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There is another on that postulates that she is Obi Wan's grand-daughter. In some cases, they say both Luke's daughter and Obi-wan's grand-daughter.

Yet another says she is Kylo's brother, Han and Leia's daughter. I'm not buying that really.

In either case, many suggest that she was trained in Luke's Jedi academy, then as it fell apart was hidden, and had her memories wiped. Hence he rapid proficiency with the force...she's already been trained as a Jedi.

Agree Daisy was well cast. Likable character...much more so than Luke ever was.
 
HuskyHawk said:
There is another on that postulates that she is Obi Wan's grand-daughter. In some cases, they say both Luke's daughter and Obi-wan's grand-daughter.

Yet another says she is Kylo's brother, Han and Leia's daughter. I'm not buying that really.

In either case, many suggest that she was trained in Luke's Jedi academy, then as it fell apart was hidden, and had her memories wiped. Hence he rapid proficiency with the force...she's already been trained as a Jedi.

Agree Daisy was well cast. Likable character...much more so than Luke ever was.
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Yeah i've heard the Obi Wan grand daughter theory as well. That jives well with the force vision where we hear Obi Wan say "Rey, these are your first steps."

I do think Rey was training at the academy with Luke when the Kylo Ren massacre happened. Here is my personal theory regarding this:

Kylo killed everyone at the academy, but he couldn't get himself to murder poor, helpless, little Rey. He had too much light in him. So, ashamed with his actions, he hides her so that no one will ever find out about his moment of weakness. That is why when a "girl" is mentioned in helping thw droid escape from the order, he loses it. "WHAT GIRL..?" He's petrified. He can't take his failure from the past coming back to haunt him. She's a constant reminder of why he will never be Vader. Then the moment during the duel... "It IS you" he says.

I don't know, I'm going to have to get the DVD as soon as it comes out.
 
I hope one of these theories about Snoke is true. I think that will be so much more intriguing and make a lot more sense than if he was just a random guy with no connection to the past events/films. I guess one of the reasons why I left the theatre a little disapointed was because of the unanswered questions like who Snoke is? And why does Rey have these powers of the force with no training? These questions will obviously be answered over the next 2 movies so after I see the whole story, I think I will appreciate The Force Awakens a lot more.
 
intlzncster said:
It also has to do with other situations too. For instance, I thought Fury was amazing for most of the movie, especially depicting life in a tank. But then they got to scene where the crew in a broken down tank defeats an entire SS Panzer division, and I'm like, this is dumb. It could have been a much, much better written scene and made the movie overall a tour de force.
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Fury was a wasted opportunity. By the time I forced myself to the end of that movie, I was literally thankful it was over. I kept hoping it'd get back on track, but it just got worse and worse. It started off so strong, and then went over a cliff (101% agree about the SS Panzer division thing).
 
FeedTheDove said:
I do think Rey was training at the academy with Luke when the Kylo Ren massacre happened. Here is my personal theory regarding this:

Kylo killed everyone at the academy, but he couldn't get himself to murder poor, helpless, little Rey. He had too much light in him. So, ashamed with his actions, he hides her so that no one will ever find out about his moment of weakness. That is why when a "girl" is mentioned in helping thw droid escape from the order, he loses it. "WHAT GIRL..?" He's petrified. He can't take his failure from the past coming back to haunt him. She's a constant reminder of why he will never be Vader. Then the moment during the duel... "It IS you" he says.

I don't know, I'm going to have to get the DVD as soon as it comes out.
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Yes. I thought the same thing here.
tzznandrew said:
Rey: she was trained, right. That's the only thing that makes sense. She was trained as a jedi and then had her memory wiped. Perhaps she was more powerful than Kylo Ren and that's why he turned on the jedi--petulance. But, he didn't kill her. He couldn't. Probably because she is related to him and he still had good in him. So he dropped her on Jakku and wiped her mind. Aside from her being Luke's daughter, that's my big guess.
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I'm more open to her not being Luke's daughter a month later, though.
 
CL82 said:
Disagree re Segal, he had skills back in the day. I'm pretty sure he holds black belts in multiple disciplines.

Regarding Order 66, that's part of the prequel narrative that needs to purged from the Serah Williams "cannon" IMHO. IIRC, in the original book, Vader hunts down and kills the Jedi. That would have been so much better. Vader once turned, could have used the force to cloud his intentions and to defeat the Jedi, one by one. Could have been a great movie.
Expand ...

Yep, Seagal got into the movie business BECAUSE of those skills.
 
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HuskyHawk said:
In either case, many suggest that she was trained in Luke's Jedi academy, then as it fell apart was hidden, and had her memories wiped. Hence he rapid proficiency with the force...she's already been trained as a Jedi.

Agree Daisy was well cast. Likable character...much more so than Luke ever was.
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Luke was a complete ninny. I think that helped in contrasting his transformation though. He went from Naivety to Wisdom. You know, I don't think we as an audience were ever supposed to like Luke. He represents the struggle within all of us. Respected, but not liked.
 
FeedTheDove said:
Kylo killed everyone at the academy, but he couldn't get himself to murder poor, helpless, little Rey. He had too much light in him. So, ashamed with his actions, he hides her so that no one will ever find out about his moment of weakness. That is why when a "girl" is mentioned in helping thw droid escape from the order, he loses it. "WHAT GIRL..?" He's petrified. He can't take his failure from the past coming back to haunt him. She's a constant reminder of why he will never be Vader. Then the moment during the duel... "It IS you" he says.
Expand ...

That is an interesting theory. I'd add to it: perhaps Kylo and Ren ARE brother and sister, and this is why Kylo spares her. Kylo hides her away on a desert planet, in relative poverty, hoping she'd just fade away into history unnoticed. As you say, he is ashamed of his weakness, and when he has an opportunity to make up for it, he does so by killing Solo. Thereby exercising his demons (weakness), so to speak. Just a thought.
 
intlzncster said:
That is an interesting theory. I'd add to it: perhaps Kylo and Ren ARE brother and sister, and this is why Kylo spares her. Kylo hides her away on a desert planet, in relative poverty, hoping she'd just fade away into history unnoticed. As you say, he is ashamed of his weakness, and when he has an opportunity to make up for it, he does so by killing Solo. Thereby exercising his demons (weakness), so to speak. Just a thought.
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EDIT: oh well, looks like tzz already had this idea.
 
HuskyHawk said:
There is another on that postulates that she is Obi Wan's grand-daughter. In some cases, they say both Luke's daughter and Obi-wan's grand-daughter.

Yet another says she is Kylo's brother, Han and Leia's daughter. I'm not buying that really.

In either case, many suggest that she was trained in Luke's Jedi academy, then as it fell apart was hidden, and had her memories wiped. Hence he rapid proficiency with the force...she's already been trained as a Jedi.

Agree Daisy was well cast. Likable character...much more so than Luke ever was.
Expand ...

I agree that Daisey did a very good job. Of course, that makes me wonder how good Padme's character in Episodes I - III could have been if Natalie Portman was given a half-way decent script because she is one heck of an actress.

I went into the movie thinking that Rey was Han & Leia's daughter and Kylo was her brother; but, based on the movie, I now am pretty much set that she is Luke's daughter. No way Han & Leia would have not acknowledged her as theirs before Han died. As for being Obi-wan's granddaughter, that's too much of a stretch for me unless we learn that Jakku is actually Tatooine.

I also think she went through training at the Academy and survived. Whoever left her there, wiped her memories and somehow blocked/bound her natural force skills. I think when Kylo tried to mind-probe her, he inadvertently broke those blocks, which would explain how her skills exponentially grew in a 24 hour period. It also makes me think that Kylo was not the person to leave her in Jakku because he would have known about such a block. Instead, he suspects who she is; but, in his arrogance, thinking that he is stronger that her, pushes the mind probe too far and 'awakens' her much to his chagrin and near demise.
 
Mr. Conehead said:
I agree that Daisey did a very good job. Of course, that makes me wonder how good Padme's character in Episodes I - III could have been if Natalie Portman was given a half-way decent script because she is one heck of an actress.

I went into the movie thinking that Rey was Han & Leia's daughter and Kylo was her brother; but, based on the movie, I now am pretty much set that she is Luke's daughter. No way Han & Leia would have not acknowledged her as theirs before Han died. As for being Obi-wan's granddaughter, that's too much of a stretch for me unless we learn that Jakku is actually Tatooine.

I also think she went through training at the Academy and survived. Whoever left her there, wiped her memories and somehow blocked/bound her natural force skills. I think when Kylo tried to mind-probe her, he inadvertently broke those blocks, which would explain how her skills exponentially grew in a 24 hour period. It also makes me think that Kylo was not the person to leave her in Jakku because he would have known about such a block. Instead, he suspects who she is; but, in his arrogance, thinking that he is stronger that her, pushes the mind probe too far and 'awakens' her much to his chagrin and near demise.
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Natalie Portman is pretty mediocre, but still deserved a better script. The kid playing older Anakin...perhaps the ultimate role is the single worst actor to ever appear in a major film. And he had a bad script. Those three movies could have been amazing really. It's so sad.

I don't buy the Han and Leia daughter thing either. And I don't think anyone is going to be anyone else reincarnated...that's just a cop out ploy. I don't think it's a huge stretch that Luke had a child with Obi-wan's daughter. It would explain her strength with the force. She's stronger with the force than Kylo.
 
This is a little off-topic, but I just finished listening to The Force Awakens novel audio book. I thought it would be interesting to point out some details of the book that were not included in the movie. If you're strictly a movie person and don't want to pay attention to the books, then I would stop reading now.

- This is inferred during the movie, but we find out that Snoke has been around for a long time, definitely dating back to the original trilogy.
- Snoke tells Kylo that the reason that Kylo is Snoke's most valuable student is because he is able use both the power of the dark side AND the light side.
- The novel explains how Poe survived the crash. I won't go into the details, but some people probably didn't like how he just shows back up in the movie with no explanation.
- Plutt tracks Rey down and sees her at Maz's castle. When he tries to take her back with him, Chewwy rips his arm off.
- Leia doesn't show any support for the new Republic.

Here are two key ones in my opinion:

- After Kylo kills Han, rather than feeling stronger because of his actions, he feels even weaker, like something wasn't right. This just adds fuel to the fire to the conflicting character that is Kylo Ren. He has so much light in him still, and I can't wait to see how his character will develop.
- When Rey is kicking Kylo's a** after she channels the force during their duel, she hears a voice in her head say "Kill him." The voice is not specified in the novel but I think we are supposed to believe that it is Snoke's voice.

I'm sure I am missing some other scenes that are included in the novel that aren't in the movie, but those are the ones that stuck out to me. If anyone has read the novel that wants to add to this list, that would be awesome.

One other thing that I thought would be worth pointing out which might mean nothing at all, but also might mean a whole lot is the voice actor for Snoke. In the audio book, Snoke's voice sounds a HELL of a lot like the emperor's voice. The way he emphasized certain syllables was definitely reminiscent of Sidious. I was sitting there like "am I listening to the emperor talk right now?" I'm not a supporter of the theory that Snoke is palpatine, but I thought that was very interesting.
 
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FeedTheDove said:
This is a little off-topic, but I just finished listening to The Force Awakens novel audio book. I thought it would be interesting to point out some details of the book that were not included in the movie. If you're strictly a movie person and don't want to pay attention to the books, then I would stop reading now.
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I've not read the books, but would probably like to, so I'm not reading your post (thanks for the warning). Couple of questions though. I heard previously the distinction between Cannon and non-Cannon books. What's the difference? Who writes the actual true dead to rights works. Are they worth it if you've already seen the movies? Which ones should I read? Note: I don't want to spoil future movies.

I could google all of this, but I don't want to accidentally happen on any spoilers. So I'd prefer not to do so. Cheers.
 
intlzncster said:
I've not read the books, but would probably like to, so I'm not reading your post (thanks for the warning). Couple of questions though. I heard previously the distinction between Cannon and non-Cannon books. What's the difference? Who writes the actual true dead to rights works. Are they worth it if you've already seen the movies? Which ones should I read? Note: I don't want to spoil future movies.

I could google all of this, but I don't want to accidentally happen on any spoilers. So I'd prefer not to do so. Cheers.
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Everything--books, video games, etc.--was canon before Disney bought it. The stories had gotten crazy complicated, and so they turned all those to "Legends." Which means they don't count. Now Disney hires out authors to write the books and they do count.

Authors and screenwriters still can from the "Legends," but do so more randomly. Sometimes a character from "Legends" becomes "canon" because of the movies or TV shows. One of the ancient Sith characters has all sorts of now non-canon stories about him, but he was referenced in the Clone Wars cartoon, so he's canon now. The inquisitors were non-canon "Legends," but then made canon by Rebels.
 
tzznandrew said:
Everything--books, video games, etc.--was canon before Disney bought it. The stories had gotten crazy complicated, and so they turned all those to "Legends." Which means they don't count. Now Disney hires out authors to write the books and they do count.

Authors and screenwriters still can from the "Legends," but do so more randomly. Sometimes a character from "Legends" becomes "canon" because of the movies or TV shows. One of the ancient Sith characters has all sorts of now non-canon stories about him, but he was referenced in the Clone Wars cartoon, so he's canon now. The inquisitors were non-canon "Legends," but then made canon by Rebels.
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OK, so what should I read? And don't say everything, because I need some focus here. And in what order should I read them?
 
FYI...Just saw a posting on official ages of the new main characters at the time of the Force Awakens
  • Rey = 19
  • Finn = 21
  • Kylo = 29
  • Poe = 32
  • Hux = 34
Interesting that Rey is the same age as Luke on a New Hope and Anakin in Attack of the Clones. Also means she was 9 when the Academy fell and Kylo was 19 when he turned.

PS - Any catch that the release date for Episode XIII has been moved from May to December of 2017?
 
intlzncster said:
OK, so what should I read? And don't say everything, because I need some focus here. And in what order should I read them?
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Honestly, this is the first star wars reading material that I've taken part in, so I'm sort of with you here. I know the new comic books are Canon, but don't know what other reading material is Canon. I've been thinking of starting to watch Clone Wars and then Rebels. I've heard positive things about both.

Mr. Conehead said:
PS - Any catch that the release date for Episode XIII has been moved from May to December of 2017?
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Yes, and I was about to cry when they announced it. Twitter responses were hilarious though.
 
FeedTheDove said:
Honestly, this is the first star wars reading material that I've taken part in, so I'm sort of with you here. I know the new comic books are Canon, but don't know what other reading material is Canon. I've been thinking of starting to watch Clone Wars and then Rebels. I've heard positive things about both.



Yes, and I was about to cry when they announced it. Twitter responses were hilarious though.
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I've watched some Clone Wars. Some of the early episodes are bad, but it readily picks up steam and there are some very good episodes. Makes Anakin a much more interesting character.

As for reading...I haven't done much in years. Even though it is non-canon, the Timothy Zahn trilogy Heir to the Empire is the crown jewel of the Star Wars books. Everything else is weak.

Books that are canon: this is a good rundown. Worth looking at the title and jumping down to the "Is It Worth Reading Section." No major spoilers or anything, since it's about the books relationship to the movie. There are probably some that have come out since.
 
I read the first book based on the original movie. It was good. It stuck pretty much to the movie but added some insights. I then read "Splinter of the Mind's Eye." It was pretty bad. I might read TFA. It sounds interesting.
 
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CL82 said:
I then read "Splinter of the Mind's Eye" is was pretty bad. I might read TFA. It sounds interesting.
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Wow, I forgot all about that book for more than 35 years until you just mentioned it. It did suck.
 

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