Semi-OT: Improved performance, sports and other fields: are there limits? | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Semi-OT: Improved performance, sports and other fields: are there limits?

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I agree that all of the elements of an improving sport apply to modern WCBB. The simplest formula for success might be talent+coaching=success. Most believe that women athletes are bigger, stronger, faster, and that there is an expanding pool of them available. It is NOT true that UConn gets all of the best players; it gets some. The most successful WCBB teams have some good players. But it is also true that the Huskies ARE an anomaly--and that points to the second part of the formula, coaching. IMO it is in coaching that UConn excels and exceeds the ability of the current batch of college coaches. It has been argued that Geno is not only a great coach of women but as fine a basketball coach as there has ever been regardless of gender. Some of this is subjective, but it's difficult to argue with the hard statistics: the Huskies are simply the most successful program ever by almost every metric.
Is that Jane Austen? View attachment 19813
I think there's a massive amount of truth to your statement. I think that Geno along with Chris and the rest of his staff have always demanded his players strive for perfection, though we all know that is unattainable and in doing so, his teams have performed at an appreciably higher level consistently than has other programs. Some UConn teams have been better than others, based on the individual abilities of the players on that respective team but in reaching for perfection, he has made his players better than they would have ever thought they could be. What I like and Chris is largely responsible, is how much better they become, as people. They recruit good players who are nice young women and give them wonderful life lessons off the court and great social opportunities and voila, they come out of UConn much better able to face the world and life than they probably ever thought when they initially enrolled in Storrs. The family environment Geno has helped provide gives them a sense of home away from home and that has even helped with team chemistry in games. Geno did more with less when he first started at UConn and with success he's been able to recruit some amazing skilled young woman who have helped build a legacy that will probably never be approached, much less surpassed.
 
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Great, great thread and great avatar (she's one of my personal heroes as well: but you probably know that we don't have a picture of Hypatia herself: I believe that's picture of an unidentified woman from Roman Egypt that in modern times has been appropriated to Hypatia.).

But I am still trying to understand Gould. For one thing, a batter doesn't hit in isolation. Pitcher, defense, relief pitching, night baseball, travel, rising the mound (IIRC), etc--things everyone's discussed above--must condition the singular act of reading a pitch and swinging the bat at it. These are exogenous factors, separate from whether the time for the mile or the number of perfect bowling games or the lowest PGA score nears a limit--where opponents don't't prevent excellence of that individual but actually help it by creating parallel, rather than oppositional, competition.

And let's not forget that Williams barely hit 400--getting over 395.5 on the last day of the season, while George Brett seemed sure to beat it in 1980 and just faded at the end of the (now longer) season. So, it can well be a statistical anomaly that punctuated Gould's own equilibrium! (And seriously, is Gould over-determining baseball to make it conform to his theory of evolution? I dunno; just asking.)

But a great, great thread: thanks!

Thanks for the support and encouragement (which you may regret).

I never paused to think that the pic is not a representation of the historical Hypatia. But what you say certainly makes sense.

You are correct about the fact that unlike a runner whose performance is measured against an absolute (stopwatch) and relatively unaffected by the performance of another, a hitter's performance is affected by the performance of others. I think Gould's point is this. In a sport where the athlete's performance is not affected by others (running, long-jump, etc.), we can accurately chart improvement and narrowing standard deviation among the best. This suggests that the athletes are "getting better", both individually and as a whole. The assumption is that if this is demonstrably true in the 400 meter hurdles, 1500 meter butterfly, the deadlift, the long-jump, the javelin, etc., then it is probably true in sports where athletes compete against each other.

That said, there are any number of things that could explain the decline of the .400 hitter. Consider the permutations (and for this let's call "pitching" everything that operates in opposition to batter success--pitching, fielding, strategy, etc.):
1. hitting worse; pitching has remained the same
2. hitting worse; pitching better
3. hitting worse; pitching worse but less so than hitting
4. hitting better; pitching better but more so than hitting

None of these fully explain the disappearance of the .400 hitter. The reason is because .400 is a meaningful average only when measured against the league average. And even then, the .400 figure is meaningful as between different seasons only if we can determine whether overall performance has improved from one year to the next, decade to decade, and so on. Putsimply, 0.400 is not some disembodied metaphysical entity. It is a measure of relative performance. Little leaguers hit.750. But they'd go 0 for 500 in the majors.

So . . . how do we know that overall performance has gotten better. Well, our assumption is that pitching has probably gotten better. This follows from the premise that increased performance generally across many sports implies the same in baseball. More narrowly, it is probable that pitching has gotten "better", if by better we mean (1) faster, (2) greater variety in kinds of pitches thrown, (3) more accurate (think of the shrinking strike zone and lowering of the pitching mound in 1969). Those all seem viable measures of pitching success.

It is even more probable--and in fact demonstrable--that fielding has gotten better. The primary measure of good fielding is absolute--fielder against the ball. "Fielding average should therefore provide an absolute measure of changing excellence in play. If baseball has improved, there should be a declerating rise in fielding averages through time." And there is!

mean fielding average.png


All this goes to support--not "prove"--the thesis: the decline of the .400 hitter reflects a general improvement in performance. As the statistical mean (the league average for all hitters) moves closer and closer toward the "wall" of human limits, there is a shrinkage of the percentage of those best hitters at the leading edge of the statistical distribution:

Figure 19.png

Gould shows that, remarkably, the mean batting average has remained pretty steady around .260 throughout the entire history of baseball. (This is partially the result of the baseball overlords periodically tweaking the rules to even out any developments that gave the advantage to the offense or defense--hence, eliminating the spitter in 1920, lowering the mound in 1969, etc.) As all players improve, the mean stays the same. But the mean moves closer and closer to the right wall of human limitation, with the "average" player improving relative to their fore-bearers.

Finally, Gould candidly acknowledges that those of extraordinary talent may push their skills to the very limit of human accomplishment and reside "nearer to the right wall". As he explains, in the early days of baseball, those men stood so far above the mean that their performance was measured as 0.400 batting. Today, the very best may hit .360+.

Now . . . back to basketball?
 
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"Over the past 100 years, Americans' mean IQ has been on a slow but steady climb. Between 1900 and 2012, it rose nearly 30 points, which means that the average person of 2012 had a higher IQ than 95 percent of the population had in 1900." American Psychological Association, March 2013

The average American in 1900 would be classified as mildly mentally slow by today's standards. I know that does not make sense, but I've heard the same claim elsewhere.
I know that you're talking in generalized terms but if true, and Albert Einstein was born today, what would that mind of his be able to concoct in the future? Remember, it took until recent years for some of the theories he provided 100 years ago to be proven accurate. Definitely a man so very, very far ahead of his time.
 
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Sorry to go further "into left field", but the batting 400 question, prompts me to vent on two other pet peeves that impact the supposed ability to measure baseball statistics across history:

Umpires don't call the strike zone as I remember learning it as a kid- from the numbers to the knees - which makes sense as the range for a level swing. Yogi I guess was a good example of outlier to that human ability.

Designated hitter - ugh! I enjoy the overall strategy of the game - obviously why I love watching Geno's teams - and this ruined half of the chess game in the AL. My sacrilegious proposal would be to compromise on a 10 batter rotation- the old DH'ers get to extend their careers but the pitchers still have to get in the box...
1. The strike zone has certainly changed over the years, sometimes smaller, then back, then smaller again. I think that most would acknowledge that the zone is smaller today than in the 1940s. But I really don't know. I think the important point to remember is that the zone has changed to "adjust" the perceived advantages conferred upon offense and defense, whichever the case may be.

It is important to recognize, however, that the changing strike zone does not substantially challenge the thesis--that the disappearance of the 0.400 hitter marks the general improvement of play, not the decline in the ability of hitters or the relative increase in improvement in pitching.

2. DH . . . I grew up an NL fan. Never liked it. But no necessary reason why it should be outlawed. If for some strange reason the history of baseball had developed out of a tradition where pitchers never hit, then we would look at a "pitchers must hit" rule as an abomination. Rules are human contrivances. Arbitrary, and necessary.
 
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I love this thread! Keep 'em coming Connie.

On a different, but analogous, note take intellect and technological advances. My understanding is that humans, on average, are no more intelligent today than they were hundreds if not thousands of years ago. However, technology has advanced in dramatic ways: in about the last 150 years there has been (to pick one of many areas) electricity, electronics, computers, cell phones, bionic implants, etc. Apparently these advances have nothing to do with human intellect if one subscribes to my first citing, but rather to "standing on the shoulders of giants" as attributed to Diego de Estella, Isaac Newton and others more recently. Maybe there is a sports analogy including the psychological one as pointed out about the Bannister sub four minute mile.

We are really taking liberties with the Boneyard at this point. And I apologize. This really may not be the proper forum.

By "intelligence", I think you mean the capacity for conceptual thought. And by "technology" I think you mean applying conceptual thought to practical application. Just a guess. But I think I agree--there is no necessary reason to believe that a person living 10,000 years ago would not possess the same cognitive potential as any of us alive today. As to the rest, well . . . now we are talking about the development of modernity in European cultures since, what?, the 12th to 13th centuries? An utterly fascinating story. And one that I cannot pretend to understand any better than anyone else out there. Plenty of written work on the subject.
 
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1. The strike zone has certainly changed over the years, sometimes smaller, then back, then smaller again. I think that most would acknowledge that the zone is smaller today than in the 1940s. But I really don't know. I think the important point to remember is that the zone has changed to "adjust" the perceived advantages conferred upon offense and defense, whichever the case may be.

It is important to recognize, however, that the changing strike zone does not substantially challenge the thesis--that the disappearance of the 0.400 hitter marks the general improvement of play, not the decline in the ability of hitters or the relative increase in improvement in pitching.

2. DH . . . I grew up an NL fan. Never liked it. But no necessary reason why it should be outlawed. If for some strange reason the history of baseball had developed out of a tradition where pitchers never hit, then we would look at a "pitchers must hit" rule as an abomination. Rules are human contrivances. Arbitrary, and necessary.
My problem with the DH isn't the purity of the rules, it's the negative impact on game strategy. And given my home borough I am an AL guy.
 

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