Seeding thoughts-

[DefenseBB]

I doubt the voters in those polls, especially the coaches, had much chance to see those teams play. They vote based on records, which in this case don't convey all the facts about these teams. Belmont has a home loss to Wright State, and Mercer has a loss to Western Kentucky. These are not the credentials of a legitimate top 25 team.

Here is the list of the coaches who vote:

The USA TODAY Sports Board of Coaches is made up of 32 head coaches at Division I institutions. All are members of the Women's Basketball Coaches Association. The board for the 2017-18 season: Brian Boyer, Arkansas State; Bart Brooks, Belmont; Mary Burke, Bryant; Cara Consuegra, Charlotte; Bradley Davis, Pacific; Denise Dillon, Drexel; Brittney Ezell, East Tennessee; Bill Fennelly, Iowa State; Jose Fernandez, South Florida; Jason Flowers, Cal State Northridge; Brenda Frese, Maryland; Darrick Gibbs, North Florida; Lindsay Gottlieb, California; Kellie Harper, Missouri State; DeUnna Hendrix, High Point; Quentin Hillsman, Syracuse; Ali Jaques, Siena; Carolyn Kieger, Marquette; Belle Koclanes, Dartmouth; Greg McCall, Cal State-Bakersfield; Kimberly McNeill, Hartford; Regina Miller, Illinois-Chicago; Jon Newlee, Idaho; Brenda Nichols, Sam Houston State; Courtney Pruitt, Alcorn State; Aaron Roussell, Bucknell; Brady Sallee, Ball State; David Six, Hampton; Michael Shafer, Richmond; Joni Taylor, Georgia; Maren Walseth, North Dakota State; Ryun Williams, Colorado State.

This is a pretty diverse set so I think some do see the games.
Why you hatin on the mid-majors? All top 25 teams lose a conference game to lower ranked teams: Texas lost to TCU; Maryland lost to MSU; Tenn lost to Alabama; and I could go on. You can only win the games you play and if top teams, ahem, like Baylor won’t play strong mid-majors these schools are limited. Mercer did play quite a few P5 teams and did well. Let’s be honest about the Big12 which is not a deep conference so many of those wins are terrible as well.

 

[southie]

Notre Dame with 3 losses (and even if they had 4 losses) is not an issue for me as a #1 seed. Their SOS and RPI speak for themselves.

When the men's bracket was announced, I was stunned that a 25-10 North Carolina squad was a #2 national seed; and, not the last #2 as they were assigned to the Charlotte sub-regional while Duke, another #2 national seed, was sent to Pittsburgh. UNC was the #6 seed in the ACC tournament, and advanced to the championship game where they lost to #1 Virginia.

So, how can a 10 loss team be justified as a #2 national seed? Well, the men's committee is looking at something called "Quadrant 1" wins. I believe UNC had a bunch of Quadrant 1 wins, the 10 losses weren't really used against them.

Not sure the women's committee is doing this; but, if they are, I have no doubt Notre Dame is more than justified in getting the last #1 seed.

NCAA tournament 2018: What is a Quadrant 1 win?


The NCAA men's basketball tournament has new selection criteria this year.

In addition to RPI, the selection committee has long leaned on a given team's number of "good" wins to determine at-large bids. For the first time in 2018, those wins are divided into "quadrants."

A team's wins are divided into four categories, based on RPI standings and the site of the game. Generally speaking, the more of a team's wins that are in "Quadrant 1" (and the fewer that are in "Quadrant 4"), the better.

Here's the breakdown (numbers listed are the RPI ranking of the opponent):

Quadrant 1: Home 1-30; neutral 1-50; away 1-75

Quadrant 2: Home 31-75; neutral 51-100; away 76-135

Quadrant 3: Home 76-160; neutral 101-200; away 136-240

Quadrant 4: Home 161-plus; neutral 201-plus; away 241-plus

 

[TitleTown]

I doubt the voters in those polls, especially the coaches, had much chance to see those teams play. They vote based on records, which in this case don't convey all the facts about these teams. They are strong mid-major programs, but when tested against legitimate ranked competition they fall flat. According to Massey (I use Massey instead of Sagarin because it's easier to view schedules there), Belmont and Mercer have combined for 4 wins over top 100 competition, with the highest ranked win being over #46 Gonsaga. Both of their conferences are made up of teams ranked 100 or lower, often much lower. Belmont has a home loss to Wright State, and Mercer has a loss to Western Kentucky. These are not the credentials of a legitimate top 25 team.

Well, being a Baylor fan you should know what an overrated team because of a soft schedule looks like.

 

[Bear11]

Well, being a Baylor fan you should know what an overrated team because of a soft schedule looks like.

The difference is that Baylor actually won the games played over quality teams, even if there weren't as many as some would like.

 

[MSGRET]

On what basis do you think they are top 25 teams? Between them they played 2 games against ranked competition, and both were 20 point losses. Winning 30 games against competition outside the top 100 does not make a team top 25 quality. Most power conference teams could go undefeated or nearly so in the Ohio Valley Conference.

You should know, Baylor only plays teams that are in the same boat as Belmont or Mercer in their OOC schedule and most of those times ONLY in Texas.

 

[Bear11]

Here is the list of the coaches who vote:

The USA TODAY Sports Board of Coaches is made up of 32 head coaches at Division I institutions. All are members of the Women's Basketball Coaches Association. The board for the 2017-18 season: Brian Boyer, Arkansas State; Bart Brooks, Belmont; Mary Burke, Bryant; Cara Consuegra, Charlotte; Bradley Davis, Pacific; Denise Dillon, Drexel; Brittney Ezell, East Tennessee; Bill Fennelly, Iowa State; Jose Fernandez, South Florida; Jason Flowers, Cal State Northridge; Brenda Frese, Maryland; Darrick Gibbs, North Florida; Lindsay Gottlieb, California; Kellie Harper, Missouri State; DeUnna Hendrix, High Point; Quentin Hillsman, Syracuse; Ali Jaques, Siena; Carolyn Kieger, Marquette; Belle Koclanes, Dartmouth; Greg McCall, Cal State-Bakersfield; Kimberly McNeill, Hartford; Regina Miller, Illinois-Chicago; Jon Newlee, Idaho; Brenda Nichols, Sam Houston State; Courtney Pruitt, Alcorn State; Aaron Roussell, Bucknell; Brady Sallee, Ball State; David Six, Hampton; Michael Shafer, Richmond; Joni Taylor, Georgia; Maren Walseth, North Dakota State; Ryun Williams, Colorado State.

This is a pretty diverse set so I think some do see the games.
Why you hatin on the mid-majors? All top 25 teams lose a conference game to lower ranked teams: Texas lost to TCU; Maryland lost to MSU; Tenn lost to Alabama; and I could go on. You can only win the games you play and if top teams, ahem, like Baylor won’t play strong mid-majors these schools are limited. Mercer did play quite a few P5 teams and did well. Let’s be honest about the Big12 which is not a deep conference so many of those wins are terrible as well.

I'm not hating on mid-majors. I realize the trouble they can have establishing themselves with the big boys. There are some mid-major teams that have consistently proved themselves over the years, like Green Bay and Depaul. However, I don't believe Mercer and Belmont are in this category. Mercer played 2 power 5 games, a blowout loss to Georgia and a win over North Carolina, one of the worst teams in the ACC. Belmont was blown out by Oklahoma and Stanford, and had a win over Vanderbilt, the worst team in the SEC. Based on these results, it seems reasonable that those teams are about as good as the lesser teams in the Power conferences. If either team had a win over even a decent power 5 team it would be a different story, but the results don't reflect that.

The coaches poll has reps from every conference, but that does not make them an authority on random schools in Georgia. Maybe 5 coaches on that poll have seen those schools play. I doubt many coaches sit around watching mid-major teams that they won't be facing. Most of those ballots are filled out by assistants and interns anyway.

As for the perceived weaknesses of the Big 12 and Baylor's scheduling, that's an argument for a different thread.

 

[DefenseBB]

You covered a lot of ground here, most of which I disagree. You question "some" of the people on the selection committee as having steered certain decision
and this is contrary to my under standing of how the selection process works.
A second consideration is the payoff in this case the lack of one.
Regarding the SEC Asst. influence, you conclude by saying "ND associate athletic director on the committee who definitely is not a Dawn fan? Why, and based on what?
Lastly I think you are over analyzing Dawn's reason for wanting to be in Mississippi St. region vs being in UCONN's. It is the same rationale for every team that has been in UCONN bracket for the past 5 seasons= UCONN is the favorite, don't want to see them until as late as possible in the tournament. + Mississippi state is a team that SC beat a few days ago.

Actually, I think we are on the same page in most of the discussion. If you have ever been on a committee where consensus is required, alliances are built. So, from the top- yes, members are to leave when their school or schools (if a conference commish) but just like here on the forum, members will “stick up for their alliances” like members logically saying ND derserved a #1. And then when the A-10 discussion comes up, ND advocates for Dayton. That absolutely happens. I am not saying it did here but how coincidental is the questions being raised on certain schools have members on this committee?
Not sure what you think I inferred on payout as I only mentioned attendance, however more attendance doe create more revenue for the NCAA to defray the costs-placing games where more fans go, makes sense. Schools do get to keep concession, parking and facility fees.
Dawn kept bring up the Shepard transfer vs. Cooper Andrew specifically called out the committee on it. That’s puts ND under more (unjust)scrutiny. So yes, I think bad blood could exist. Does it? No one really knows but given the defensiveness ND is exhibiting this year about Walz, Durr, injuries, their schedule, yeah, I sort of believe that. I do think SC should have been put in KC but considering Texas was in the East 2 of the last 3 years, I can see why Texas went to KC
Again, I do think the committtee did a great job with the bracket, better than most years actually. I know our UD colleague above interjected on their behalf (kudos to you), I still think USC and Rutgers deserved in more than them. The A-10was not a good conference this year and did not deserve 2 bids. I also don’t think Creighton deserved a bid.

 

[LoTrader]

@LOTRADER and you are a bit off on location-If OSU beats the LV's in Knoxville, they player the Sweet 16 Game in Lexington, not Texas or Tennessee. I am giving Rueck a punchers chance in both those games as he's pretty good with the x's and o's. Maybe we get to see another jacket toss by Kim!

Better if not in Texas--thanks for correcting. I'll never forget the Kim jacket toss! It was soooo comical.

 

[Gus Mahler]

Better if not in Texas--thanks for correcting. I'll never forget the Kim jacket toss! It was soooo comical.

Which one?

 

[LoTrader]

Which one?

At Baylor vs Oregon State in the elite 8 (2 or 3 years ago). It was the year the Beavers played UCONN in the Final 4 semi-final game. That was my first and only time seeing Kim toss her jacket into the stands.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Under the weather, with my head stuck in a fog, so : 2:1 mixture top soil and peat moss, good starter fertilizer, cautious watering.

 

[Plebe]

Well because they are both ranked in the Top 25 in both the AP and Coaches polls.

Polls are not that good when it comes to evaluating teams with gaudy records against weak competition.

 

[Gus Mahler]

At Baylor vs Oregon State in the elite 8 (2 or 3 years ago). It was the year the Beavers played UCONN in the Final 4 semi-final game. That was my first and only time seeing Kim toss her jacket into the stands.

I remember that one. I think she's had quite a few memorable ones over the years. I'm surprised she didn't rip a bunch of stuff off in that upset loss to Louisville.