Seattle Wins Breanna Stewart

[Bonpland]

Maybe he meant that there are more "star" or "name" players in the west as opposed to the east? Out west you have Parker, Taurasi, Griner, Maya Moore, Diggins, and now Stewart.... whereas in the east you just have DelDonne and ?????

You have to put Tina in the group of stars with the others. She deserves to be ranked ahead of Diggins and Stewie because Diggins has yet to develope into the player that we all know that she will be and Stewie hasn't yet played a game at that level.

Every player entering the league has an adjustment period, and there is no way to know how long Stewie's will be. Charles is already a force(and a former MVP).

 

[UcMiami]

And on this star scale where exactly are we putting Catchings?!

Fact is that the west had three very good teams and LA in the middle and then a bunch of junk. The East had the best team, and two other very good teams and three competitive teams. The West's two lottery teams combined for 18 wins, the East's for 30 wins - in fact the West bottom three teams only just surpassed the East bottom two 32-30.

 

[Carnac]

Yeah, most importantly, SA also has Danielle Robinson (who is relatively young). If Robinson can guard 2's, then a Jefferson/Robinson back court could be amazing. I do think Jefferson will be a better pro than Robinson, but probably not in her first year or two...

What about #2 (Jefferson) for Nneka Ogwumike? LA needs a real PG, and playing Parker/Ogwumike/Lavender together just doesn't cut it. Sophia Young just retired, so SA will need a 4.

If you're looking at that trade from a "fan" point of view, it might look good. If you look at it from a Los Angeles Sparks "General Manager" view point, it would be a horrible trade. First of all, the talent level is not equal. If L.A. trades Neka, they must receive a player of equal or better talent level in return.

Neka for Moriah would not be an equal trade. Neka is an established veteran and all star in the WNBA. Mo would be a unproven rookie that has a lot to learn and has to go through that period of adjustment to playing at the next level. It may take her a season or two to achieve her potential. The Sparks can't wait that long to receive dividends on a trade. Any trades they make must help them NOW. I doubt that Mo would help the Sparks right away to the extent of justifying that trade.

I doubt she would replace the point production Neka brings night in and night out. Neka of course would help the Stars right away. If the Stars were able to pull off that trade, Kayla McBride would volunteer to pick Neka up at the airport.

Of course SA would made that trade in a heart beat. The Sparks would be extremely foolish to make that trade. SA would also have to throw in an established 4 to sweeten that deal. I'm also a Sparks fan. IMO they need a dominant 5 like a Kelsy Bone, Sylvia Fowles or Tina Charles, AND a 15 ppg -10 rpg power forward.

Right now, the Sparks can not get to the finals with the team they have. They cannot beat (the top teams in the league) Minnesota or Phoenix in a best of 3 series. The Sparks are a good team, but not a championship team. Neka is a starter, and an extremely valuable player. Every team in the league would love to have Neka.

Don't look for the Sparks to trade her anytime soon; anymore than they would trade Candice Parker. Neka is part of their "core" group. Don't forget, she was the #1 draft pick when she came out. When the Sparks won the draft lottery that year, EVERYBODY knew who they were going to select. The speculation was who was going to be #2.

Whatever team drafts Mo will have high expectations for her. The team that drafts her will have need for her skill set. Some teams are "OK" at the point guard position, and thus have other needs at this time. A trade of this nature would put even more pressure on her to perform, and perform immediately at a high level on a consistent basis. That's a lot of pressure to put on anyone, regardless of the credentials and achievements they bring with them from college.

I'm biased in regards to Mo. She's my favorite player on the team. IMO, she'll do well wherever she goes. She's not going to loose her speed, ability to shoot and run an offense. Don't forget, she will have graduated from one of the best finishing schools in WCBB.

 

[UcMiami]

If you're looking at that trade from a "fan" point of view, it might look good. If you look at it from a Los Angeles Sparks "General Manager" view point, it would be a horrible trade. First of all, the talent level is not equal. If L.A. trades Neka, they must receive a player of equal or better talent level in return.

Neka for Moriah would not be an equal trade. Neka is an established veteran and all star in the WNBA. Mo would be a unproven rookie that has a lot to learn and has to go through that period of adjustment to playing at the next level. It may take her a season or two to achieve her potential. The Sparks can't wait that long to receive dividends on a trade. Any trades they make must help them NOW. I doubt that Mo would help the Sparks right away to the extent of justifying that trade.

I doubt she would replace the point production Neka brings night in and night out. Neka of course would help the Stars right away. If the Stars were able to pull off that trade, Kayla McBride would volunteer to pick Neka up at the airport.

Of course SA would made that trade in a heart beat. The Sparks would be extremely foolish to make that trade. SA would also have to throw in an established 4 to sweeten that deal. I'm also a Sparks fan. IMO they need a dominant 5 like a Kelsy Bone, Sylvia Fowles or Tina Charles, AND a 15 ppg -10 rpg power forward.

Right now, the Sparks can not get to the finals with the team they have. They cannot beat (the top teams in the league) Minnesota or Phoenix in a best of 3 series. The Sparks are a good team, but not a championship team. Neka is a starter, and an extremely valuable player. Every team in the league would love to have Neka.

Don't look for the Sparks to trade her anytime soon; anymore than they would trade Candice Parker. Neka is part of their "core" group. Don't forget, she was the #1 draft pick when she came out. When the Sparks won the draft lottery that year, EVERYBODY knew who they were going to select. The speculation was who was going to be #2.

Whatever team drafts Mo will have high expectations for her. The team that drafts her will have need for her skill set. Some teams are "OK" at the point guard position, and thus have other needs at this time. A trade of this nature would put even more pressure on her to perform, and perform immediately at a high level on a consistent basis. That's a lot of pressure to put on anyone, regardless of the credentials and achievements they bring with them from college.

I'm biased in regards to Mo. She's my favorite player on the team. IMO, she'll do well wherever she goes. She's not going to loose her speed, ability to shoot and run an offense. Don't forget, she will have graduated from one of the best finishing schools in WCBB.

Agree in principle, but ... just think about this equation: Sue Bird was the #1 player drafted in 2002, is a perennial all-star, a fixture on the USA national team, and 2 time WNBA champion. Moriah Jefferson likely will graduate from the same school as Sue, with better statistics in every category except for career 3FG% and 3FG totals - admittedly Sue lost most of her Freshman year, but that was likely to be Sue's worst statistical year, as it was easily Moriah's. Sue was named the POY in her senior year and Moriah will not get that accolade (partly because of a teammate) nor will she have 3 Liebermans but perhaps two. They both played their college careers with incredibly talented players who were/will be high draft picks in the WNBA. So ... do not sleep on the potential that Miss Jefferson represents nor the potential value a great PG can provide to a good team.

FYI - We see written and often hear that KML is the greatest three point shoot in the history of the college game, and she most definitely broke the record for the most 3 pointers made. But ... at Uconn Bird is the gold standard for 3 point efficiency in a career and for a single season - well last year, Moriah matched that yearly efficiency (Bird wins out by .001) - neither shot as frequently as KML, but if Moriah comes close to matching her Junior year as a Senior she will be second only to Bird for her career, and will blow both of them away for overall shooting efficiency.

 

[billnaples]

Maybe he meant that there are more "star" or "name" players in the west as opposed to the east? Out west you have Parker, Taurasi, Griner, Maya Moore, Diggins, and now Stewart.... whereas in the east you just have DelDonne and ?????

Alyssa Thomas, Kelsey Bonee, Angrl McCoughtry, Tamika Catching, and you missed probably the biggest in Tina Charles? Please,

 

[RSHERMVIKES]

Ct Sun have C. Gray and J. Thomas as PG's would they want MoJeff? Does BY want MoJeff with AD?
San Antonio might want Danielle Robinson to pair with MoJeff as stated above!

 

[billnaples]

Should anyone think more or less of Loyd regardless of how much or how little being #1 entered into her decision? Not by my standards. Facts is facts though, she declared for the draft after specifically telling MM she would be back. What caused the change given no comment from JL is open to whatever observations and speculations people want to make. Loyd can correct that perspective anytime she wants.

 

[ed4ourgirls]

. . . With only 12 teams I wish they would just eliminate the conferences. . . .

Without the conference scheme, and with each team playing a balanced schedule, this would probably
increase each team's travel budget. The WNBA is not a league with a lot of money to throw around.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Agree in principle, but ... just think about this equation: Sue Bird was the #1 player drafted in 2002, is a perennial all-star, a fixture on the USA national team, and 2 time WNBA champion. Moriah Jefferson likely will graduate from the same school as Sue, with better statistics in every category except for career 3FG% and 3FG totals - admittedly Sue lost most of her Freshman year, but that was likely to be Sue's worst statistical year, as it was easily Moriah's. Sue was named the POY in her senior year and Moriah will not get that accolade (partly because of a teammate) nor will she have 3 Liebermans but perhaps two. They both played their college careers with incredibly talented players who were/will be high draft picks in the WNBA. So ... do not sleep on the potential that Miss Jefferson represents nor the potential value a great PG can provide to a good team.

FYI - We see written and often hear that KML is the greatest three point shoot in the history of the college game, and she most definitely broke the record for the most 3 pointers made. But ... at Uconn Bird is the gold standard for 3 point efficiency in a career and for a single season - well last year, Moriah matched that yearly efficiency (Bird wins out by .001) - neither shot as frequently as KML, but if Moriah comes close to matching her Junior year as a Senior she will be second only to Bird for her career, and will blow both of them away for overall shooting efficiency.

Well said and researched. I would like to add that Moriah's 3 pointers, like Sue's seemed to come at key times and it does take nerves of steel to pull that off. But, having said that ... KML is UConn's Cool Hand Luke until she is dethroned.

 

[Aluminny69]

Should anyone think more or less of Loyd regardless of how much or how little being #1 entered into her decision? Not by my standards. Facts is facts though, she declared for the draft after specifically telling MM she would be back. What caused the change given no comment from JL is open to whatever observations and speculations people want to make. Loyd can correct that perspective anytime she wants.

My thoughts exactly. Loyd announced her entry into the draft right after losing the NC to UConn. ( In a lackluster performance, I might add.) Perhaps she had already made up her mind, but if so, why didn't she tell her coach?

 

[2Husky]

Facts is facts though, she declared for the draft after specifically telling MM she would be back..

Where is this established? We have muffets side, but I don't see how that is credible. It's much more likely Jewell was very non committal to staying or going and let muffet interpret it to think she would stay. I've never seen a direct quote from Jewell before she declared saying she would definitely be coming back. So in addition to not knowing everything that factored into the decision, we also don't know what was actually said during any of the conversations before the declaration.

 

[HoopsFan21]

Where is this established? We have muffets side, but I don't see how that is credible. It's much more likely Jewell was very non committal to staying or going and let muffet interpret it to think she would stay. I've never seen a direct quote from Jewell before she declared saying she would definitely be coming back. So in addition to not knowing everything that factored into the decision, we also don't know what was actually said during any of the conversations before the declaration.

Coach McGraw said she was shocked because Jewell had told her about 3-4 weeks prior that she was coming back. I don't see why Coach McGraw would make that up. You're not going to find a direct quote from Jewell if it was something she had said to her coach in private. It's not like the press asks every kid who has a birthday in a month that makes them eligible for the WNBA draft whether or not they are coming back. Like Coach McGraw said she was blindsided, and why would you not believe it considering when she found out (about an hour after the loss of the national championship game)?

 

[Kaizen]

Where is this established? We have muffets side, but I don't see how that is credible. It's much more likely Jewell was very non committal to staying or going and let muffet interpret it to think she would stay. I've never seen a direct quote from Jewell before she declared saying she would definitely be coming back. So in addition to not knowing everything that factored into the decision, we also don't know what was actually said during any of the conversations before the declaration.

I don't think a coach like Muffets will lie.
I am a UConn fan. But I still have a lot respect to Muffets for her achievements.

 

[billnaples]

Where is this established? We have muffets side, but I don't see how that is credible. It's much more likely Jewell was very non committal to staying or going and let muffet interpret it to think she would stay. I've never seen a direct quote from Jewell before she declared saying she would definitely be coming back. So in addition to not knowing everything that factored into the decision, we also don't know what was actually said during any of the conversations before the declaration.

I wish I could quote the source but to the best of my recollection all of the conversation about upper class players and who was going to lose whom centered around UConn losing KML and Stokes and the Irish only losing I seem to recall Cable. Further commentary centered around the fact that both schools, in addition to having virtually everyone back they both had very good recruiting classes coming in. That aside I ask what does MM have to gain by twisting or parsing JL's position that leads you to question her credibility? And the flip side is if there was no truth in that assessment why hasn't JL come out to defend or explain her side? Just asking!

 

[j66kicker]

I don't think a coach like Muffets will lie.
I am a UConn fan. But I still have a lot respect to Muffets for her achievements.

Ask Geno about that... ("Let's just say it's not nice to fib during Lent.")

 

[2Husky]

I don't think a coach like Muffets will lie.
I am a UConn fan. But I still have a lot respect to Muffets for her achievements.

Muffet lied about Nd not playing UConn that one year, blaming the lapse on UConn, so we know she likes to lie, especially during Lent.

I wish I could quote the source but to the best of my recollection all of the conversation about upper class players and who was going to lose whom centered around UConn losing KML and Stokes and the Irish only losing I seem to recall Cable. Further commentary centered around the fact that both schools, in addition to having virtually everyone back they both had very good recruiting classes coming in. That aside I ask what does MM have to gain by twisting or parsing JL's position that leads you to question her credibility? And the flip side is if there was no truth in that assessment why hasn't JL come out to defend or explain her side? Just asking!

Jewell doesn't need to defend her decision. She didn't do anything wrong.

I don't doubt that muffet thought she was coming back. . But there is a lot of room between a definitive direct statement to that effect, or something along the lines of she isn't thinking about it and is focusing on finishing the season. And we have very little information about this conversation, and it all comes from one side that has a particular interest in her returning.

You said facts are facts, but in this case we don't have them. The scenario you outline is possible, but has not been proven by any reasonable measure.

 

[UcMiami]

The idea that Jewel might leave came up around the start of the NCAAs and was certainly out there, and Muffet specifically addressed it that she would be back. No idea what passed between the two in private, but Muffet was genuinely surprised when Jewel announced she was leaving. Jewel had every reason to keep that decision quiet while the team was still pursuing an NC to avoid distraction, as did Muffet if she had known, and I don't think anyone knows when Jewel did finally decided.
I know it was a thought expressed here that Jewel chose to go pro because she would be the #1 pick, but I personally think that is a slightly snarky implication about a hugely significant personal decision that I am sure had many layers to it. Jewel recently expressed the desire to up the level of competition she was facing to more rapidly develop her game as a reason for turning pro, there is certainly a financial side (not just salary but endorsement deals as well), and there could be a whole bunch of other reasons. No one posting here I think has any idea what her motives were.

 

[Kaizen]

Ask Geno about that... ("Let's just say it's not nice to fib during Lent.")

May be I didn't write enough. I mean Muffet will not lie for Jewell's case (no reason). As far as to Geno, well, we all know.

 

[HoopsFan21]

By the way, the extra 'L' that should be in her last name, is really added to her first name. It's Jewell Loyd.

 

[billnaples]

Muffet lied about Nd not playing UConn that one year, blaming the lapse on UConn, so we know she likes to lie, especially during Lent.


Jewell doesn't need to defend her decision. She didn't do anything wrong.

I don't doubt that muffet thought she was coming back. . But there is a lot of room between a definitive direct statement to that effect, or something along the lines of she isn't thinking about it and is focusing on finishing the season. And we have very little information about this conversation, and it all comes from one side that has a particular interest in her returning.

You said facts are facts, but in this case we don't have them. The scenario you outline is possible, but has not been proven by any reasonable measure.

Just a little nit pick but once JL decided and contacted or signed with an agent raising the issue of MM's side of the story was peraps tainted because she "has a particular...." at that point she HAD no more interest, JL's eligibility was gone as far as I understand the rules. I could go back and reread everything I posted on this issue but I do not recall saying she did anything "wrong". I went back to watch the title game and in fact at the 1:10 mark the announce crew expressed the thought that only Cable was leaving ND and the rest would be back specifically including the AA Loyd. along with a strong class of freshman, And at no time did I least ever suggest she needed to defend her decision. The only question that any one is really looking for an answer to IMO is whether or not she suggested she was coming back, or did she outright tell MM she was leaving. Her reasons for the decision she made are not as far as I am concerned important to this issue.

 

[Aluminny69]

I seem to remember Rebecca Lobo speculating, before the final game, about Loyd leaving. Perhaps someone can remember the exact timing.

 

[j66kicker]

I seem to remember Rebecca Lobo speculating, before the final game, about Loyd leaving. Perhaps someone can remember the exact timing.

I do remember that - she was speculating on ESPN during th FF or late stages of the tournament, but I can't find it.

Here is a tweet from Rebecca, copied in a post on ND Nation on Feb 15, explaining the recently-changed WNBA eligibility policy and that Zahui B and Loyd were now eligible. Followed on the board by, "Thanks [to the poster] for posting anything potentially negative about the ND WBB program" sentiments, as well as speculation that Loyd would leave. Maybe Rebecca actually put the thought in Jewell's head

http://www.ndnation.com/boards/showpost.php?b=mcgraw;pid=28957;d=all

I think Tuck will leave after this year BTW, but that's not based on anything other than, "That's what I'd do if I were her." I hope she stays, but it would be wise for the coaches not to count on it.

 

[2Husky]

Just a little nit pick but once JL decided and contacted or signed with an agent raising the issue of MM's side of the story was peraps tainted because she "has a particular...." at that point she HAD no more interest, JL's eligibility was gone as far as I understand the rules. I could go back and reread everything I posted on this issue but I do not recall saying she did anything "wrong". I went back to watch the title game and in fact at the 1:10 mark the announce crew expressed the thought that only Cable was leaving ND and the rest would be back specifically including the AA Loyd. along with a strong class of freshman, And at no time did I least ever suggest she needed to defend her decision. The only question that any one is really looking for an answer to IMO is whether or not she suggested she was coming back, or did she outright tell MM she was leaving. Her reasons for the decision she made are not as far as I am concerned important to this issue.

Is that you admitting we don't actually know the nature of any conversations before the decision? So we don't know that Jewell told muffet "specifically" that she was coming back? It is now a question people are looking into rather than an established fact as you tried to pass it off as?
I've devoted more effort to this than I wanted to, and I hope you don't take this personally because your post is the just the latest along these lines and I don't mean to pick on you specifically. I get frustrated by the many people who have run with the telling of Muffet's side as if Jewell was lying to her and Muffet is some kind of victim. Muffet is a millionaire on the back of unpaid labor. There are plenty of ways, even if Muffet's account is true, to fill in the blanks with neither side being at fault. I hope people start to realize that we really don't have the details in this situation.

Yes when she signed with an agent she lost her eligibility, but she did have several days after declaring to withdraw from the draft. Do you have a link that demonstrates when Jewell signed with her agent? I don't think it changes Muffets interest at all in the immediate aftermath of the decision.

Anyway I'm going to try to steer this back to the original topic, and I'm happy Seattle got the 1st pick. It will be cool to see her team back up with KML.

 

[billnaples]

Is that you admitting we don't actually know the nature of any conversations before the decision? So we don't know that Jewell told muffet "specifically" that she was coming back? It is now a question people are looking into rather than an established fact as you tried to pass it off as?
I've devoted more effort to this than I wanted to, and I hope you don't take this personally because your post is the just the latest along these lines and I don't mean to pick on you specifically. I get frustrated by the many people who have run with the telling of Muffet's side as if Jewell was lying to her and Muffet is some kind of victim. Muffet is a millionaire on the back of unpaid labor. There are plenty of ways, even if Muffet's account is true, to fill in the blanks with neither side being at fault. I hope people start to realize that we really don't have the details in this situation.

Yes when she signed with an agent she lost her eligibility, but she did have several days after declaring to withdraw from the draft. Do you have a link that demonstrates when Jewell signed with her agent? I don't think it changes Muffets interest at all in the immediate aftermath of the decision.

Anyway I'm going to try to steer this back to the original topic, and I'm happy Seattle got the 1st pick. It will be cool to see her team back up with KML.

I don't think I ever said I knew the content of the actual conversation between MM & JL. And just so we are clear I am not a fan of MM after her snub of Stewart I think getting the P O Y award. To the point of what JL did in deciding to leave early I said I have no problem with that. I also have I thought made it very clear that the reason there has only been one side of the story out there is that JL has chosen not to address it. She certainly has the right of silence if she chooses. And with that, I will speak no more to the issue.

 

[j66kicker]

Is that you admitting we don't actually know the nature of any conversations before the decision? So we don't know that Jewell told muffet "specifically" that she was coming back? It is now a question people are looking into rather than an established fact as you tried to pass it off as?
I've devoted more effort to this than I wanted to, and I hope you don't take this personally because your post is the just the latest along these lines and I don't mean to pick on you specifically. I get frustrated by the many people who have run with the telling of Muffet's side as if Jewell was lying to her and Muffet is some kind of victim.

"She told us she was coming back - probably, maybe “three or four weeks ago”

See :35 of video
http://www.wsbt.com/sports/muffet-mcgraw-loyd-made-bad-decision-to-go-pro/32369432

"She told us she was coming back" leaves no room for interpretation IMO

 

[triaddukefan]

I thought this thread was about Stewart and Seattle

 

[2Husky]

"She told us she was coming back - probably, maybe “three or four weeks ago”

See :35 of video
http://www.wsbt.com/sports/muffet-mcgraw-loyd-made-bad-decision-to-go-pro/32369432

"She told us she was coming back" leaves no room for interpretation IMO

Exactly my point a known liar giving one side. It really doesn't provide any reliable information about what Jewell actually said. I guess some take an obviously emotional person with motivated self interest and a history of lying at their word and I am skeptical of her claim. In the article MM is also quoted as saying she thinks Jewell made the decision a couple of weeks before she declared.
IMO in terms of Jewell it really doesn't matter what she did or didn't say, or when she decided to go pro, waiting until the end of the season is an appropriate time to discuss future plans with the coach, and the tight deadline to declare is not her fault. Some coaches would thank a player for not being a distraction during the season. On the other hand losing Jewell, makes it less likely that Muffet will get her final four bonus next year so there is cause for her to be upset. I just think she would be smarter if she had acted more like it was a good thing that Jewell was declaring, instead of trying to portray Jewell as a liar, or backstabber, or disloyal player, even if MM wasn't intentionally doing that, it came off that way to me.

I thought this thread was about Stewart and Seattle

Sorry I take it you are excited to see Stewart go to Seattle also.

 

[Sonny44]

I thought this thread was about Stewart and Seattle

You can't judge a thread by it's title, not here anyway.

 

[j66kicker]

I thought this thread was about Stewart and Seattle

You're absolutely right - it definitely WAS!