Scott Brooks does not know how to use a bench

[joober jones]

Title says it all.

 

[4UConn]

It really stinks to see JL sitting at the end of the bench with no prospect of any meaningful playing time.

 

[aceboon]

eh, it was more about the combinations of lineups more than anything, just seemed like he was throwing ish against the wall. I understand it because he had to see what worked in-game without Ibaka, but I don't quite understand why he used so little of the Collison/Adams duo when (a)their defense was getting torched in the paint and on PnR, and (b)that combo was great in the closeout game against the Clippers. Why not go back to it to see if would work again?

 

[superjohn]

"but I don't quite understand why he used so little of the Collison/Adams duo when (a)their defense was getting torched in the paint and on PnR, and (b)that combo was great in the closeout game against the Clippers. Why not go back to it to see if would work again?" Because he's a terrible coach.

 

[huskyharry]

DFish's +/- was -18, JLamb's was +5
But it doesn't matter how much talent Lamb has...Brooks has his lineup in his head and that is all he will play.

 

[pnete]

He thinks that playing that stiff Perkins is a smart move, If Wooden taught anything in basketball, it is that you have to play your best five and force the other team to adjust. Ollie became a great coach when he put Daniels at center, Giffey at power forward and the three guards together. lamb was clutch the last time he was in big games and should play..

 

[otp85]

Scott Brooks is struggling because when you lose a guy that logs the minutes Ibaka gives you it is impossible to just know what your new rotation is. Losing any one guy that plays 30+ a game is gonna throw off a team entirely unless you have a very you capable back up. It's not like he can just throw Steven Adams out there and not worry about it. His entire system is off and his bench isn't that great.

 

[otp85]

He thinks that playing that stiff Perkins is a smart move, If Wooden taught anything in basketball, it is that you have to play your best five and force the other team to adjust. Ollie became a great coach when he put Daniels at center, Giffey at power forward and the three guards together. lamb was clutch the last time he was in big games and should play..

Wooden, like Ollie, had the benefit of coaching in college where you can get away with that. You take out Perkins and Tim Duncan will have a field day.

 

[aceboon]

Scott Brooks is struggling because when you lose a guy that logs the minutes Ibaka gives you it is impossible to just know what your new rotation is. Losing any one guy that plays 30+ a game is gonna throw off a team entirely unless you have a very you capable back up. It's not like he can just throw Steven Adams out there and not worry about it. His entire system is off and his bench isn't that great.

I understand that part but Ibaka got hurt the last game against the Clippers in the 3rd, they essentially won the game with Adams and Collison up front. Not all matchups are created equal and the Spurs are certainly more difficult to play than the Clippers, but how do you not go to that lineup once when you're getting killed in both paint and off of PnR? Collison is a very good PnR defender, play the guy. As for Adams, he's been playing all season, its not like Brooks is just taking off the wrapping, he's young and inexperienced but he's been a part of the rotation.

 

[gtcam]

I love JL and would wish he got much more PT, however, D Fish is a known commodity and has mega amounts of playoff experience/success and if I were the HC, I would count on DF doing the right thing and not wilt under pressure. JL is still a pup and will get the experience next year when Fish is coaching the Knicks or Lakers. Caron has to become bigger in these playoffs - he is such a talent and fits into the Thunder so nicely.

 

[otp85]

I understand that part but Ibaka got hurt the last game against the Clippers in the 3rd, they essentially won the game with Adams and Collison up front. Not all matchups are created equal and the Spurs are certainly more difficult to play than the Clippers, but how do you not go to that lineup once when you're getting killed in both paint and off of PnR? Collison is a very good PnR defender, play the guy. As for Adams, he's been playing all season, its not like Brooks is just taking off the wrapping, he's young and inexperienced but he's been a part of the rotation.

What you're missing in your thought process is the rotations that a coach has in place. He builds them all year; plugging different guys in different spots til they are comfortable with who they have playing with who. It is the purpose of the regular season.

When they lost Ibaka they lost their 3rd biggest piece. So Brooks is scrambling to figure out that rotation again. He's trying to do months worth of work in days.

 

[aceboon]

What you're missing in your thought process is the rotations that a coach has in place. He builds them all year; plugging different guys in different spots til they are comfortable with who they have playing with who. It is the purpose of the regular season.

When they lost Ibaka they lost their 3rd biggest piece. So Brooks is scrambling to figure out that rotation again. He's trying to do months worth of work in days.

I'm not missing anything, what you're missing is that Ibaka got injured in the last game and they won the game with a rotation that he didn't bother trying in a game where his defense got lit up. What part are of that are you not understanding? Do I need to spell it out in all caps for you?

 

[dogfan96]

I understand that part but Ibaka got hurt the last game against the Clippers in the 3rd, they essentially won the game with Adams and Collison up front. Not all matchups are created equal and the Spurs are certainly more difficult to play than the Clippers, but how do you not go to that lineup once when you're getting killed in both paint and off of PnR? Collison is a very good PnR defender, play the guy. As for Adams, he's been playing all season, its not like Brooks is just taking off the wrapping, he's young and inexperienced but he's been a part of the rotation.

Well for one thing, those are his only bigs besides Perkins. So he has to divvy up the minutes accordingly.

 

[aceboon]

Well for one thing, those are his only bigs besides Perkins. So he has to divvy up the minutes accordingly.

They did not play a single minute together and Collison did not play the 4th quarter entirely, after he was in the lineup when the Thunder made their run in the 3rd quarter and took the lead briefly after being down dbl digits. How many more pleas can ya'll cop for this dude?

 

[dogfan96]

They did not play a single minute together and Collison did not play the 4th quarter entirely, after he was in the lineup when the Thunder made their run in the 3rd quarter and took the lead briefly after being down dbl digits. How many more pleas can ya'll cop for this dude?

I don't really care about Scott Brooks one way or the other but it's not so simple as you make it seem. Collison averaged 16 minutes during the regular season.. he played 16 minutes last night. You can't just jump a guy from 16 minutes to 25-30 and expect the same level of effectiveness. Like otp85 said, he's basically trying to figure out how to play SA on the fly without his 3rd best player.

 

[joober jones]

They were getting killed in the paint. Thabeet would have been of use, if nothing else he'd have clogged up the lane a bit more.

 

[joober jones]

I don't really care about Scott Brooks one way or the other but it's not so simple as you make it seem. Collison averaged 16 minutes during the regular season.. he played 16 minutes last night. You can't just jump a guy from 16 minutes to 25-30 and expect the same level of effectiveness. Like otp85 said, he's basically trying to figure out how to play SA on the fly without his 3rd best player.

We're going to find something to complain about when the OKC Huskies don't win.

 

[partial]

I think it's pretty clear that scott brooks isn't someone who can make good on the fly adjustments, he methodically develops his lineups in the regular season then bullheadedly executes whatever plan he has in the postseason. It's not a bad approach to be methodical and incrementally change in the regular season but as a fan I'm watching the game and saying to myself 60+ pts in the paint that's horrendous why not put in that 7+ ft guy even if he just hammers a couple of people going into the hole.

As an aside I always thought thabeet in the NBA has been way underrated i know he hasn't done much to be proud of but he was never going to be good at the things marc gasol and zach randolph did at Memphis and that's the type of system he was playing in. What he is good at standing in the middle and playing ping pong with the basketball on defense and no one will ever trust him to do that in the NBA, it's a bit sad.

 

[otp85]

I'm not missing anything, what you're missing is that Ibaka got injured in the last game and they won the game with a rotation that he didn't bother trying in a game where his defense got lit up. What part are of that are you not understanding? Do I need to spell it out in all caps for you?

Less than a half of one game is not a series. And the Clippers are not the Spurs. You seem to think it's a simple fix for Brooks, it's not.

 

[otp85]

The Thunder are going up against a team that's been here forever and they're still learning, that includes Brooks. And to lose Ibaka presented a whole new set of problems that any coach would struggle to deal with.

All I'm trying to say is give the guy a break and stop blaming things on one person. Especially when the main reason they lost was because the Spurs are good.

 

[aceboon]

Less than a half of one game is not a series. And the Clippers are not the Spurs. You seem to think it's a simple fix for Brooks, it's not.

...and I already said the Spurs are more difficult to play than the Clippers, you're doing a hell of a job of not reading and now introducing strawmen(nobody is blaming Brooks entirely for the loss) so we might as well dead the back and forth while its still early.

 

[caw]

Lamb got burned badly on defense the first few possessions he was out there (and no one rotated to help). They also pretty much ignored him on offense. I missed the fourth quarter.

Total small isn't going to work against the Spurs bc they are good and well coached.

Thabeet may not help but if you are just throwing stuff at the wall you should try him. For that matter P. Jones should have gotten some run also. Either he was testing things out or he is clueless. If he's testing things out Jones should get a shot.

 

[aceboon]

Lamb got burned badly on defense the first few possessions he was out there (and no one rotated to help). They also pretty much ignored him on offense. I missed the fourth quarter.

Total small isn't going to work against the Spurs bc they are good and well coached.

Thabeet may not help but if you are just throwing stuff at the wall you should try him. For that matter P. Jones should have gotten some run also. Either he was testing things out or he is clueless. If he's testing things out Jones should get a shot.

yea I posted in the Finals thread that if Lamb is going to play D like that then I wouldn't even bother playing him. there was a 3 play sequence where he gave up a wide open 3 point attempt that was missed, got burned for a layup on a cut, then failed to pick up Danny Green in transition before it was too late and got a 3 drained in his face. if Brooks was going to go deeper into the bench I would've turned to PJIII before Lamb, he's not a great defender but he's better than Lamb and on offense all they do is park Lamb in the corner where he never touches the ball so what is the point. they could accomplish the same floor spacing with PJIII while having a better defender out there.

 

[champs99and04]

I don't disagree with most of the criticisms of Brooks, but let me defend him for a moment: when you essentially build a three man team like Presti has built, and you lose one of those three players, you're going to be in big trouble. We saw it with the '12 Heat when they lost Bosh for a stretch of games or so in the middle of the postseason - they lost him in game one against Indiana, and then proceeded to go 5-5 over their next ten games (and against teams not as good as the Spurs).

If there's a legitimate gripe with Brooks, it's that the offense goes terribly stagnant at times, especially late in games. There was no reason for that Memphis series to be as close as it was, and if they had lost, I would have definitely been in favor of firing him (and I still might be depending on who else is available).

But defensively, I actually find Brooks to be a fairly good basketball mind. He's constructed a defensive scheme that maximizes the athleticism of his roster, and what he did two years ago against San Antonio adjusting on the fly and slowing a complete juggernaut (remember, that Spurs team had won like 20 in a row), was an extremely impressive coaching job. Clearly, Ibaka was the centerpiece of that defense, and losing him against a team like San Antonio was basically a death sentence.

If you're looking to criticize Brooks for what happened yesterday, it's that there didn't really seem to be much of a contingency plan in place. He's doing ridiculous things like playing Durant at center - which I gave him credit for to an extent - rather than going to guys like Perry Jones (who he should have been developing sooner so that he could play when the situation presented itself).

I don't think Brooks is a terrible coach. I think he's an average coach, and I blame Presti (and by extension, ownership for hamstringing him financially) for not surrounding Durant, Ibaka and Westbrook with the necessary pieces to win a title. As much as I love Caron Butler, it's just downright painful to watch him at this point. He's become a spot-up shooter who isn't really that good of a shooter. Thabo Sefolosha is terrified to even shoot the ball. Derrick Fisher...no explanation necessary. You can call for more of Collison and Adams, but Adams got crucified in pick and roll coverage yesterday, and Collison isn't strong enough to play the five or a viable option offensively at the four. Right now, it's Durant, Westbrook, and a bunch of guys who wouldn't crack San Antonio's rotation. I'm all for upgrading the head coach, but Brooks never really had a shot in this fight.

 

[tzznandrew]

If you're looking to criticize Brooks for what happened yesterday, it's that there didn't really seem to be much of a contingency plan in place. He's doing ridiculous things like playing Durant at center - which I gave him credit for to an extent - rather than going to guys like Perry Jones (who he should have been developing sooner so that he could play when the situation presented itself).

I don't think Brooks is a terrible coach. I think he's an average coach, and I blame Presti (and by extension, ownership for hamstringing him financially) for not surrounding Durant, Ibaka and Westbrook with the necessary pieces to win a title. As much as I love Caron Butler, it's just downright painful to watch him at this point. He's become a spot-up shooter who isn't really that good of a shooter. Thabo Sefolosha is terrified to even shoot the ball. Derrick Fisher...no explanation necessary. You can call for more of Collison and Adams, but Adams got crucified in pick and roll coverage yesterday, and Collison isn't strong enough to play the five or a viable option offensively at the four. Right now, it's Durant, Westbrook, and a bunch of guys who wouldn't crack San Antonio's rotation. I'm all for upgrading the head coach, but Brooks never really had a shot in this fight.

I think you make some valid points, but two things jump out:

1. He never developed players. That's fine and dandy, I guess, when you're healthy, but so many times your team won't be. In 2012 the Celtics almost took out the Heat because of a Bosh injury...but the Heat were able to adapt. As for their bench, Lamb got lost on defense yesterday, but is it any surprise? Guy hasn't seen the court in forever
2. San Antonio doesn't have a great roster in terms of talent. Danny Green looks great now, but the guy has much less talent than Lamb or Jones, among others. San Antonio develops players to fit into their system. But they were trotting out Gary Neal last year in key moments. You need to suffer a little in the regular season so that your bench can develop the confidence and identity it needs to succeed when you are in the playoffs, and Brooks has really not proven willing--or capable--of doing that.