Schiano 2.0 vs. Edsall 2.0

[UConnJim]

I thought it wold be interesting to compare Schiano 2.0 vs Edsall 2.0. Schiano is in year 2 while Edsall was in year 5 (including the COVID year).

In the 4 years before each took over, their respective teams did not have a winning record:

Rutgers: 2-10, 4-8, 1-11, 2-10
UConn: 3-9, 2-10, 6-7, 3-9

Record for their 2.0:

Schiano: 3-6, 3-0
Edsall: 3-9, 1-11. 2-10, 0-2

Rutgers plays a tougher schedule being in the Big 10 than UConn, so you would expect Rutgers to take longer to turnaround, but it seems like Schiano has made Rutgers respectable pretty quickly. (Don't get me wrong, I don't think Rutgers will ever compete for a Big 10 title under Schiano.) What are the differences that are easily identifiable?

1) Rutgers pays more money to assistant coaches than UConn. Schiano held out for more money for his assistants before he agreed to become Rutgers head coach. For example, Rutgers OC makes $805k and was an experienced OC when hired. UConn's OC makes $310k and had no OC experience before being named OC.

2) Not only does Rutgers pay more for assistant coaches, they have a significantly larger football support staff. Looking at the listed support staff, which could understate or overstate the numbers for each school, Rutgers employs 66 support staff and UConn employs 13.

3) Schiano had more recent and relevant college coaching experience. Schiano was DC at Ohio State for 3 years under Urban Meyer, one of the best college coaches in recent years. He learned what the top coaches/programs do to be successful. And, he saw what state of the art offenses and defenses were doing.

4) It seems Schiano inherited a better and more experienced roster than Edsall. When you look at the offensive and defensive starters at Rutgers this year, all of them are Juniors, Seniors, or Grads. Although a few of them are from the transfer portal, almost all were inherited from the previous coach. In contrast, UConn has 2 Juniors/Seniors/Grads starting on offense and 7 on defense. On the 2 deep roster, Rutgers has 12 FR and SO and UConn has 27 FR and SO. Rutgers has 49 Juniors/Seniors/Grads on the roster and UConn has 20.

5) Schiano was more willing to take advantage of the transfer portal than Edsall. His first year, he took in 10 from the portal including the current starting QB. But, similar to Edsall, Schiano lost a large number of players to the portal: 10 in year 1 (5 more left right before he was hired), 17 in year 2, and 3 so far this year. Also similar to UConn, only 2 of Rutgers outbound transfers have ended up at a P5 school.


I don't think UConn needs to or should replicate the Rutgers approach under Schiano 2.0, as I think there are many examples of hiring program building coaches with fewer resources. And, I do think Edsall was doing a pretty good job of bringing young talent to UConn, but the talent is still very young. No program is going to be that successful with only 20 Juniors/Seniors/Grads on the roster. That said, it does not appear that Edsall brought in a program changing QB yet. I do expect the young players to get better as the season progresses and if the new head coach can keep the core talent, the cupboard is not bare.

The next head coach will inherit a better roster than Edsall, in my opinion, and it will still be relatively young. I think the next head coach has to have experience developing young QBs and if he thinks he needs to, bring in a talented transfer QB from the portal. I'm not a big fan of bringing in a large number of transfers, but I think the next head coach should bring in more transfers than Edsall did to improve talent, depth, and experience. And, the university has to support the new head coach by providing enough money to hire talented assistant coaches.

 

[Chin Diesel]

I couldn't care less about Schiano 2.0.

RE 2.0 doubled down on the worst qualities of RE 1.0 and there are already signs of his stubborness regarding certain players hurting team performance. RE was always about everything off the field first- both quantifiable and perceivable and then, maybe get you on the field.

 

[Palatine]

Did Schiano sneak out on his team when he left, immediately after making one of his players man up about leaving the team?

 

[DoctorWho85]

Plain and simple. Schiano is seeing success because the school is actually investing in the program. They most likely won't be Ohio St, Wisconsin, Michigan good, but they'll be in the upper half of the league consistently because of the assistant pool money.

 

[geordi]

How long do you think Rutgirls can keep it up? They're running an enormous budget deficit. Even bigger than ours.

 

[Ldandy]

Significantly better players and coaches. Its really no more complicated than that.

 

[Chief00]

I thought it wold be interesting to compare Schiano 2.0 vs Edsall 2.0. Schiano is in year 2 while Edsall was in year 5 (including the COVID year).

In the 4 years before each took over, their respective teams did not have a winning record:

Rutgers: 2-10, 4-8, 1-11, 2-10
UConn: 3-9, 2-10, 6-7, 3-9

Record for their 2.0:

Schiano: 3-6, 3-0
Edsall: 3-9, 1-11. 2-10, 0-2

Rutgers plays a tougher schedule being in the Big 10 than UConn, so you would expect Rutgers to take longer to turnaround, but it seems like Schiano has made Rutgers respectable pretty quickly. (Don't get me wrong, I don't think Rutgers will ever compete for a Big 10 title under Schiano.) What are the differences that are easily identifiable?

1) Rutgers pays more money to assistant coaches than UConn. Schiano held out for more money for his assistants before he agreed to become Rutgers head coach. For example, Rutgers OC makes $805k and was an experienced OC when hired. UConn's OC makes $310k and had no OC experience before being named OC.

2) Not only does Rutgers pay more for assistant coaches, they have a significantly larger football support staff. Looking at the listed support staff, which could understate or overstate the numbers for each school, Rutgers employs 66 support staff and UConn employs 13.

3) Schiano had more recent and relevant college coaching experience. Schiano was DC at Ohio State for 3 years under Urban Meyer, one of the best college coaches in recent years. He learned what the top coaches/programs do to be successful. And, he saw what state of the art offenses and defenses were doing.

4) It seems Schiano inherited a better and more experienced roster than Edsall. When you look at the offensive and defensive starters at Rutgers this year, all of them are Juniors, Seniors, or Grads. Although a few of them are from the transfer portal, almost all were inherited from the previous coach. In contrast, UConn has 2 Juniors/Seniors/Grads starting on offense and 7 on defense. On the 2 deep roster, Rutgers has 12 FR and SO and UConn has 27 FR and SO. Rutgers has 49 Juniors/Seniors/Grads on the roster and UConn has 20.

5) Schiano was more willing to take advantage of the transfer portal than Edsall. His first year, he took in 10 from the portal including the current starting QB. But, similar to Edsall, Schiano lost a large number of players to the portal: 10 in year 1 (5 more left right before he was hired), 17 in year 2, and 3 so far this year. Also similar to UConn, only 2 of Rutgers outbound transfers have ended up at a P5 school.


I don't think UConn needs to or should replicate the Rutgers approach under Schiano 2.0, as I think there are many examples of hiring program building coaches with fewer resources. And, I do think Edsall was doing a pretty good job of bringing young talent to UConn, but the talent is still very young. No program is going to be that successful with only 20 Juniors/Seniors/Grads on the roster. That said, it does not appear that Edsall brought in a program changing QB yet. I do expect the young players to get better as the season progresses and if the new head coach can keep the core talent, the cupboard is not bare.

The next head coach will inherit a better roster than Edsall, in my opinion, and it will still be relatively young. I think the next head coach has to have experience developing young QBs and if he thinks he needs to, bring in a talented transfer QB from the portal. I'm not a big fan of bringing in a large number of transfers, but I think the next head coach should bring in more transfers than Edsall did to improve talent, depth, and experience. And, the university has to support the new head coach by providing enough money to hire talented assistant coaches.

Good analysis.

 

[Waquoit]

Did Schiano sneak out on his team when he left, immediately after making one of his players man up about leaving the team?

And he never apologized for that even though his fans tried to say he did. 2.0 was rotten from the start.

 

[BugsyCT]

Had the B1G invited UConn too those numbers might look a little different for us.

 

[Bongo Fury]

RE lost that Eye of the Tiger.

 

[UCTitleTown]

There's a ton of talent in New Jersey if he can keep them home.

 

[HobokenHusky]

They are both Sociopathic egomaniacs, but Schiano seems like he’s smart enough to have learned a thing or two working under Urban. He hired a great spread OC and is letting him do his thing (I would actually love Sean Gleeson as HC).

Randy, on the other hand, didn’t learn from his handcuffing of Moorehead and instead butted heads with Lashlee in the same way, and then just installed yes men from there. He’s so arrogant that he thought the things he did in 2000 to build the program would work in 2020. They didn’t.

 

[ruthetiger]

Had the B1G invited UConn too those numbers might look a little different for us.

How???

 

[ruthetiger]

There's a ton of talent in New Jersey if he can keep them home.

Means nothing!

 

[UCTitleTown]

Means nothing!

Care to elaborate on that insightful comment?

 

[ruthetiger]

NJ is already over recruited imho. There are only but so many players to go around. In order for Rutgers to compete in the B1G east, they'll have to recruit nationally. Penn state is already doing that and has established itself well in the south with other programs. I'm not sure if rutgers can do that just in NJ.

 

[HuskyDogArt]

Great analysis of those coaches. Rutgers is in a P5 and we are independent, so Rutgers will do better in recruiting. I mean, Rutgers vs Ohio State every year, what player wouldn't be a part of that?


Now, I think with our independent scheduling, we can get Indiana, Ohio State, Clemson, Vandy, Duke because we can schedule basketball with them. If we can get a coach and motivate the players, we might be invited to be a P5 member!

 

[Waquoit]

Edsall 2.0 was the biggest failure in CFB history. We finally get better than Merrimac in hockey only to get surpassed by them in football. That took a real man of genius.

 

[noeynox]

Edsall 2.0 was the biggest failure in CFB history. We finally get better than Merrimac in hockey only to get surpassed by them in football. That took a real man of genius.

Spot on. So critical of the talent he inherited only to deliver worse results with the players he himself brought in. Shoot Diaco in his last year was competitive against UVA (win) and Syracuse (close loss). We haven't sniffed that level under 2.0.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

One recruits from the platform of the BIG 10 shield while being located in a talent rich state. The other was having his best recruiting season without any of the above. Neither is good at in-game adjustments. Bad comparison.

 

[Exit 4]

Spot on. So critical of the talent he inherited only to deliver worse results with the players he himself brought in. Shoot Diaco in his last year was competitive against UVA (win) and Syracuse (close loss). We haven't sniffed that level under 2.0.

I was all in on Edsall 2.0 because I felt there was no other way now that he’s back. Didn’t see the value in cheering against the guy. Then came this season. Week zero I was willing to chalk up Fresno to extreme heat and travel. Then week 1 came with the fiasco that was the Holy Cross game. By mid second quarter it was crystal clear that he didn’t know what what he was doing anymore. The jig was up.

Now as the balance of the season plays out and the remaining coaches and players open up a little bit his legacy, whatever it was is going to take a hit. And a big part of the greater story was his stubborn arrogance - his mentality that he’s the only smart guy in the room.

 

[Waquoit]

I was all in on Edsall 2.0 because I felt there was no other way now that he’s back. Didn’t see the value in cheering against the guy.

I eventually came to that way of thinking. Unfortunately what I said early on was true, he was a hack doing hack things like running off players to buy time. The Edsallista's ran lists showing that those players weren't any good because "just look where they ended up." I wonder how many of those teams could beat UConn now?

I literally can't fathom how he let this happen. I think way back in the recesses of my mind I still though he had a tiny bit of a clue. What has happened to this team is Olliesque. What was he doing all this time? Certainly not coaching anybody up. I am not in favor of "putting it all in the past." We are not done dealing with the trauma. It's not right to let this chump skate. UConn needs to put all the crap on him and let him take it with him out the door. Only then do we get a new start.

 

[Bongo Fury]

I believe some coaches get poisoned by work at the pro level. RE, KO, PP, GDL it is a different game and doesn’t typically translate unless your team has top talent.

 

[noeynox]

I was all in on Edsall 2.0 because I felt there was no other way now that he’s back. Didn’t see the value in cheering against the guy. Then came this season. Week zero I was willing to chalk up Fresno to extreme heat and travel. Then week 1 came with the fiasco that was the Holy Cross game. By mid second quarter it was crystal clear that he didn’t know what what he was doing anymore. The jig was up.

Now as the balance of the season plays out and the remaining coaches and players open up a little bit his legacy, whatever it was is going to take a hit. And a big part of the greater story was his stubborn arrogance - his mentality that he’s the only smart guy in the room.

Never cheered against him personally, I'm just admittedly bitter he was so quick dismiss the abilities of the players here and then go out, recruit and deliver worse results. I do not believe he didn't know what he was doing per se, but his my way or highway style was akin to mailing it in. He refuses to adapt to a changing a landscape. Whether its the transfer portal, a more modern offensive approach or just player relations. Whatever he was paid, he wasn't worth a quarter of it given what he delivered on the field. A Hobo could have coached this team to get its doors blown off every week.

 

[Husky68]

I was all in on Edsall 2.0 because I felt there was no other way now that he’s back. Didn’t see the value in cheering against the guy. Then came this season. Week zero I was willing to chalk up Fresno to extreme heat and travel. Then week 1 came with the fiasco that was the Holy Cross game. By mid second quarter it was crystal clear that he didn’t know what what he was doing anymore. The jig was up.

Now as the balance of the season plays out and the remaining coaches and players open up a little bit his legacy, whatever it was is going to take a hit. And a big part of the greater story was his stubborn arrogance - his mentality that he’s the only smart guy in the room.

Why do you call it "cheering against the guy"? He was an authoritarian, my way or highway guy his whole career. He brought UConn into FBS because he was the guy picked to do it, not because he was the only guy who could.
His distain in leaving, exceedingly poor results at Maryland should have precluded him from any association with UConn football, never mind being hired as HCRE2.0.
Not "cheering against", it was clearly seeing what was ahead (and also seeing it as it unfolded and not needing to get to 6-32 to note that king HCRE2.0 is a bare clown masquerading as a head coach).
My only remaining question about the HCRE2.0 era is: it was so astoundingly badly done could it all just be incompetence or was there something more.

 

[Dream Jobbed 2.0]

A lot easier to turn things around quick with that Big10 money

 

[UConnJim]

I thought Edsall would be able to stabilize the program, bring in better recruits, and develop them like he did during 1.0. I do think he brought in better recruits and he was developing them, but they are still young although he didn't develop a franchise QB. But, I do think the roster and the program were in bad shape when Edsall arrived. And, unlike 1.0, the schedule was much more difficult for rebuilding quickly using primarily HS recruits given UConn is a development program. The Holy Cross loss was a debacle, but you aren't going to win against anybody when your QB has 4 turnovers.

Given the cards he was handed, there are some things he could have done differently.

Before I get into what he should have done differently, people need to stop focusing on the outbound transfers. It is happening all over college football, especially when there is a coaching change. (It happened to Schiano 2.0 as well.) I would argue, UConn's transfer numbers are about in-line with the average FBS school and just like every FBS school, there are kids who are going to leave who you don't want to leave. Do people really think he was happy that Beavers and Coyle left? Of course not. Also, if you are a 4th year junior who is not a major contributor, you will not get your scholarship renewed at virtually every school. Why? Because you have an 85 scholarship limit.

What should 2.0 done differently?

1) He should have used the transfer portal to a greater extent given how young the roster was going to skew.

2) He should have recruited an up and coming OC when Dunn left instead of promoting an internal candidate with no OC experience.

3) He should have adjusted his style and approach to today's players and modern football.

 

[Chief00]

I thought Edsall would be able to stabilize the program, bring in better recruits, and develop them like he did during 1.0. I do think he brought in better recruits and he was developing them, but they are still young although he didn't develop a franchise QB. But, I do think the roster and the program were in bad shape when Edsall arrived. And, unlike 1.0, the schedule was much more difficult for rebuilding quickly using primarily HS recruits given UConn is a development program. The Holy Cross loss was a debacle, but you aren't going to win against anybody when your QB has 4 turnovers.

Given the cards he was handed, there are some things he could have done differently.

Before I get into what he should have done differently, people need to stop focusing on the outbound transfers. It is happening all over college football, especially when there is a coaching change. (It happened to Schiano 2.0 as well.) I would argue, UConn's transfer numbers are about in-line with the average FBS school and just like every FBS school, there are kids who are going to leave who you don't want to leave. Do people really think he was happy that Beavers and Coyle left? Of course not. Also, if you are a 4th year junior who is not a major contributor, you will not get your scholarship renewed at virtually every school. Why? Because you have an 85 scholarship limit.

What should 2.0 done differently?

1) He should have used the transfer portal to a greater extent given how young the roster was going to skew.

2) He should have recruited an up and coming OC when Dunn left instead of promoting an internal candidate with no OC experience.

3) He should have adjusted his style and approach to today's players and modern football.

When he blamed Lashlee for scoring too fast and putting an inept defense on the field run by his hand picked disaster - Chief knew things were upside down in year one - and it only got worse when he ran Lashlee out of town and his buddies put out that lame story blaming Lashlee’s wife.

 

[Bubba1957]

I was happy to see RE hired and to have an “adult” in the room after Diablo (who I was also happy to see hired). I’ve been dead wrong both times. Randy was not capable or interested in looking at the talent he inherited/recruited and adjusting his approach to what he had. He was going to build a team that ran it down your throat without having the hogs to do it. So he failed. Like Diablo with the fake fake field goal, a coach should feel responsible for putting players in the best position to succeed based on their abilities. His teams might not have been great, but a good coach would have had them competing. Instead he whined about their lack of ability. I’ve learned my lesson, it will be wait and see before I jump on any bandwagons.

 

[Bongo Fury]

I hear ya. I’m always optimistic. Hoped PP would bring it to the next level. Had some success at Cuse especially with Mcnab. Hiring is a crapshoot. This time it’s the AD David Benedict’s choice and feel he will deliver. He wants it as much as we do.