SC vs LSU

[SECbbfan24]

She started conceding the game early in the week. Partly setting the narrative. A narrative I think is truthful. They have had a great season.

It's Always good to downplay expectations. I think she sure hoped to steal it, but coaches understand matchups better than anyone

She’s been quick to down play every possible expectation since being hired IMO. I think she legit tries to set her own fans straight every week if you listen to her press conference. She may be arrogant or have an ego but she isn’t dumb. She knows what it takes to compete with the elite. She knew good and well they aren’t there yet.

Maybe because LSU fans are crazy. Most think her waving a magic wand will turn them into Baylor, which was never happening over night. You got to be realistic about what you have. They have done great things so far and are much ahead of schedule in year 2, but they have a long way to go still as she has said all year. It takes years of recruiting and developing a program with chemistry and depth.

But sports fans are crazy and we live in this win now and everything era of sports. If not, people think the sky is falling

 

[ThatCG1801]

 

[hoopsnloops32]

It wasn't all Cardoso though. Maybe not even half the tone. The whole team was getting caught by Edwards pump fakes.

Saxton and Beal bit too.

I'm pretty sure Edwards scored over half her points against Cardosa specifically, not all, but it was a mismatch defensively for South Carolina there.

 

[Darwin]

You were right,

Won’t be a million. No way it surpasses SCar at UConn’s 1.087 million rating last week. Or, UConn at Tenn (.642 million)UConn is THE nationally established name. LSU is the flavor of the month that has not established a national fan base. Not saying UConn is better than LSU at this time. I’m saying they draw the biggest eyeballs. SCar’s biggest eyeball total not including UConn was about .747 mill at Stanford.

I’m guessing a half million though Super Sunday couch potatoes might move it up.

it wasn’t a million, it was 1.6 million.

 

[visitingcock]

You were right,

it wasn’t a million, it was 1.6 million.

I've called and ordered a nice sauteed Crow for my Valentine's meal tonight.

 

[GoChips20]

I'm pretty sure Edwards scored over half her points against Cardosa specifically, not all, but it was a mismatch defensively for South Carolina there.

Not to take anything away from how UConn played, but that entire game was completely uncharacteristic defensively for South Carolina. At times we looked wholly incapable of getting a stop.

 

[Gamecockfan77]

Man I swear I remember seeing one or two early tourney games where SC was just throwing up bricks in the first half. I remember thinking that I couldn’t see how they could beat Stanford playing like that. I even commented in the chat about it.

The average margin of victory in the tournament was one of the bigger ones in recent history.

Want to say 538 had an article on that.

Not really the narrative around what has been a really dominant run by South Carolina.

 

[triaddukefan]

As a high school senior who grew up with Methodist pastor graduate from Duke Divinity School, I flipped out at the UNLV win in 1991.

Did you ever go to Camp Tekoa?

 

[Gamecockfan77]

I was hoping that one of the SC players threw a bullet pass and hit her. That would have made the officials give her a technical foul for interfering with play on the court.


Back in the late 70's to early 90's the Metro Conference was one of the premier basketball conference's in the Nation and it was way before the Big 5 was established in its current form. At one time they had the following ACC/SEC teams. South Carolina, Florida State, Louisville, Georgia Tech, and Virginia Tech. The other teams were considered basketball powerhouses, they were Cincinnati, Memphis (State), St Louis, Tulane, and Southern Mississippi. At the time that Louisville won the Metro was still considered a Power Conference.

Yeah, I'm a child of the Metro.

Louisville was strong and Memphis had a moment. Wasn't Cincy's best era.

FSU had a nice team just as they were exiting. The Bobby Sura, Charlie Ward, Doug Edwards squad that showed very well in the best era of the ACC imo.

 

[Gamecockfan77]

The only team that concerns me is Stanford. Like you mentioned, Stanford is our only equal when it comes to size and depth. I would love to play Indiana. Indiana is the only loss SC senior class has yet to avenge. Indiana was our only loss the year the tournament was cancelled.

Stanford has punched us in the mouth a couple of times and is the only team that's been able to out rebound us.

If someone wants to knock them off before they meet up with us, that's fine with me.

 

[hoopsnloops32]

Not to take anything away from how UConn played, but that entire game was completely uncharacteristic defensively for South Carolina. At times we looked wholly incapable of getting a stop.

How many games have you played against teams with multiple post players who need to be guarded around the perimeter? Having watched all your games I’d say not many besides UConn and Stanford. Defensively you guys really utilize that second line of defense but it gets taken away when they can’t sag off the front court players around the perimeter. UConn does still have a strong backcourt even without Azzi and a Carolyn that are capable of getting by even elite defenders.

TLDR: I’m not surprised UConn score so well against South Carolina because they are more difficult to guard than most of the teams you’ve played this year.

 

[Gamecockfan77]

We probably play a lot of teams that have tried to go small or spread us out.

I don't really think UConn requires too much attention to Edwards or Dorka on the perimeter.

For that matter, Stanford doesn't really have great perimeter shooting bigs outside of Prechtel.

 

[hoopsnloops32]

We probably play a lot of teams that have tried to go small or spread us out.

I don't really think UConn requires too much attention to Edwards or Dorka on the perimeter.

For that matter, Stanford doesn't really have great perimeter shooting bigs outside of Prechtel.

Well then you gave them needless attention as they pulled your bogs away from the paint. Feel free to go back and watch the game. They aren’t great outside shooters but you can’t leave them wide open either.

It’s not having free toerimeter shooting big but bigs that you have to contest beyond the three point line. Brink is a problem in that regard when she hits out outside shots like she did early in the South Carolina game.

 

[TC22]

Well then you gave them needless attention as they pulled your bogs away from the paint. Feel free to go back and watch the game. They aren’t great outside shooters but you can’t leave them wide open either.

It’s not having free toerimeter shooting big but bigs that you have to contest beyond the three point line. Brink is a problem in that regard when she hits out outside shots like she did early in the South Carolina game.

I think you are correct. We did have trouble guarding the 2 dominant bigs and I think that was addressed before the LSU game. It doesn’t matter who you are, SC is going to try to run you off the 3 line and make you shoot 2s and they are very good at it. Other than Stanford, we have not played another team with more than 1 good post player. Hopefully we got that corrected.

i dont believe SC played a Great game and some of that was due to Connecticut.There we’re definitely some adjustments made before the LSU game. It doesn’t matter what teams are played. There is always goin to be players that are great individual players. The key is to stop enough of the other players on the team so that one player can’t beat you.

 

[Bone Dog]

There is always goin to be players that are great individual players. The key is to stop enough of the other players on the team so that one player can’t beat you.

Exactly. In fact, this is everyone’s strategy against SC. Stop Zia and maybe Johnson, and then Aliyah and/or Kamila can’t beat you. The entire lineup is pretty strong, which means most opponents can still be beaten by the rest of the team. At the beginning of the season, it looked like only UConn and Stanford had the personnel to pull this off. I was surprised a depleted UConn was able to stay within striking distance of a win in that game. I’d be even more surprised if they can do it again with the current lineup. To me, that says only Stanford remains as an “even up” threat. Betts has been playing with more confidence recently and that may help.

Of course, a fluke upset is always possible, but I’m only thinking of games when both teams are playing their best.

 

[The deacon]

Other than Stanford, we have not played another team with more than 1 good post player. Hopefully we got that corrected.

You don't consider Dorka Juhasz to be a good post player?

 

[visitingcock]

You don't consider Dorka Juhasz to be a good post player?

Good? Yes. Dominant like Brink? no.

Dorka is good in the low post and very good when she posts high, Brink is, at the least, very good to excellent everywhere she posts.

 

[The deacon]

Good? Yes. Dominant like Brink? no.

Dorka is good in the low post and very good when she posts high, Brink is, at the least, very good to excellent everywhere she posts.

No debate from me there, for sure, visitingcock. It's just that TC22 said SC has not played a team with more than one good post player. UConn clearly has two good post players.

 

[hoopsnloops32]

I think you are correct. We did have trouble guarding the 2 dominant bigs and I think that was addressed before the LSU game. It doesn’t matter who you are, SC is going to try to run you off the 3 line and make you shoot 2s and they are very good at it. Other than Stanford, we have not played another team with more than 1 good post player. Hopefully we got that corrected.

i dont believe SC played a Great game and some of that was due to Connecticut.There we’re definitely some adjustments made before the LSU game. It doesn’t matter what teams are played. There is always goin to be players that are great individual players. The key is to stop enough of the other players on the team so that one player can’t beat you.

Well it's not two dominant bigs that are the issue. Its two decent bigs that are enough of a threat from 15ft out that you have to guard them. You don't have to guard all 5 LSU players on the floor around the perimeter, not the case with UConn and sometimes Stanford. I think UConn is a bad match-up for South Carolina, as evidenced by our very depleted line-up losing by only 4. If UConn ever returns to full strength they'll be able to exploit it better offensively. How that effects them defensively is another story but they'd have more flexibility to figure it out.

 

[GamecockFam]

Exactly. In fact, this is everyone’s strategy against SC. Stop Zia and maybe Johnson, and then Aliyah and/or Kamila can’t beat you. The entire lineup is pretty strong, which means most opponents can still be beaten by the rest of the team. At the beginning of the season, it looked like only UConn and Stanford had the personnel to pull this off. I was surprised a depleted UConn was able to stay within striking distance of a win in that game. I’d be even more surprised if they can do it again with the current lineup. To me, that says only Stanford remains as an “even up” threat. Betts has been playing with more confidence recently and that may help.

Of course, a fluke upset is always possible, but I’m only thinking of games when both teams are playing their best.

Um. What?! How many South Carolina games have you watched this season? We've been facing these junk defenses with basically four players in the paint to stop Boston and Cardoso. Very rarely do we see teams strategize to stop our guards. That's one of the reasons why Zia's numbers are up this season.

 

[ThatCG1801]

If we had a "take a shot every time the phrase 'our very depleted line-up' is mentioned" game happening in this thread, we'd all be snot slinging drunk.

 

[Bone Dog]

Um. What?! How many South Carolina games have you watched this season? We've been facing these junk defenses with basically four players in the paint to stop Boston and Cardoso. Very rarely do we see teams strategize to stop our guards. That's one of the reasons why Zia's numbers are up this season.

I've watched about a dozen full SC games and most of the rest as ~30 minute highlights, and I've seen everyone fail to outplay the backcourt enough to outweigh the scoring of the front court. I don't know what you mean by inverting the issue and saying "junk defenses" couldn't stop Boston and Cardozo. The point of stopping Zia and Raven and Brea, et al on the perimeter, is so it doesn't matter what Boston and Cardoso do, while you imagine it's about crowding the paint to stop them. [Is this where I'm supposed to say "Um, what?"]

But, to the point: if you can't beat an opponent where they are strong, you attack them where they are less strong... and then you hope the differential is enough to negate their strength. Stanford is the only team that might be able to compete in the front court. Everyone else is stuck hoping to outclass the backcourt enough to negate the front court advantage. The fact that no one has succeeded at this -- the only strategy open to them -- is that their backcourts have not been sufficiently better. And this is a fact I mentioned in my original comment.

Case in point in the UConn game -- Boston and Cardoso scored 43, while Cooke, Beal, Fletcher and Hall scored 16. But Johnson put in 14 -- she had as good a game as you can have while shooting 33% and that was more than enough to win. On UConn's side, Lopez-Senechal, Griffin and Muhl scored 47 and Edwards and Juhasz added 30, but that was not enough to take the win. In other words, UConn's backcourt only outscored SC's backcourt by 17. I don't see any other team being able to do better in this sort of comparison against SC, which is why I expect they'll repeat as NC. If Stanford is going to prevail, their front court has to win it for them, not their backcourt -- and I don't see that happening.

 

[hoopsnloops32]

I've watched about a dozen full SC games and most of the rest as ~30 minute highlights, and I've seen everyone fail to outplay the backcourt enough to outweigh the scoring of the front court. I don't know what you mean by inverting the issue and saying "junk defenses" couldn't stop Boston and Cardozo. The point of stopping Zia and Raven and Brea, et al on the perimeter, is so it doesn't matter what Boston and Cardoso do, while you imagine it's about crowding the paint to stop them. [Is this where I'm supposed to say "Um, what?"]

But, to the point: if you can't beat an opponent where they are strong, you attack them where they are less strong... and then you hope the differential is enough to negate their strength. Stanford is the only team that might be able to compete in the front court. Everyone else is stuck hoping to outclass the backcourt enough to negate the front court advantage. The fact that no one has succeeded at this -- the only strategy open to them -- is that their backcourts have not been sufficiently better. And this is a fact I mentioned in my original comment.

Case in point in the UConn game -- Boston and Cardoso scored 43, while Cooke, Beal, Fletcher and Hall scored 16. But Johnson put in 14 -- she had as good a game as you can have while shooting 33% and that was more than enough to win. On UConn's side, Lopez-Senechal, Griffin and Muhl scored 47 and Edwards and Juhasz added 30, but that was not enough to take the win. In other words, UConn's backcourt only outscored SC's backcourt by 17. I don't see any other team being able to do better in this sort of comparison against SC, which is why I expect they'll repeat as NC. If Stanford is going to prevail, their front court has to win it for them, not their backcourt -- and I don't see that happening.

I agree with this completely. South Carolina's worst match up isn't another strong frontcout its a team with an elite backcourt and a decent front court. Before the injuries, I think Notre Dame would have presented a tougher match up than Stanford for that reason but alas.

 

[Cornell Lt]

If I’m not mistaken, SC has the #1 3 point shooting % defense in the nation. It does not matter who they play, this late in the season the stats don’t lie.

You are mistaken, SC is second behind Fairleigh Dickinson

 

[Darwin]

Not to take anything away from how UConn played, but that entire game was completely uncharacteristic defensively for South Carolina. At times we looked wholly incapable of getting a stop.

UCONN team will do that to defenses, especially when they have some players.

 

[Darwin]

We probably play a lot of teams that have tried to go small or spread us out.

I don't really think UConn requires too much attention to Edwards or Dorka on the perimeter.

For that matter, Stanford doesn't really have great perimeter shooting bigs outside of Prechtel.

Brinks is very good at 3’s

 

[Gamecockfan77]

Well then you gave them needless attention as they pulled your bogs away from the paint. Feel free to go back and watch the game. They aren’t great outside shooters but you can’t leave them wide open either.

It’s not having free toerimeter shooting big but bigs that you have to contest beyond the three point line. Brink is a problem in that regard when she hits out outside shots like she did early in the South Carolina game.

Biting on Edwards pump fakes on the perimeter was difficult to understand.

As to Brink, yeah if a 20% 3pt shooter makes a lot of threes you have some trouble.

 

[Gamecockfan77]

Brinks is very good at 3’s

She's 10/46. 22%.

Up to this year she's never averaged more than 1 attempt a game.

Now she averages 1.5.

 

[hoopsnloops32]

Biting on Edwards pump fakes on the perimeter was difficult to understand.

As to Brink, yeah if a 20% 3pt shooter makes a lot of threes you have some trouble.

Edwards is shooting well from that spot this year and hit a few that day, around 40-50%. And Brink went 2 for 5 (40%) against South Carolina in November. Again, they don't have to be great shooters, just serviceable enough that you can't leave them wide open.

 

[hoopsnloops32]

She's 10/46. 22%.

Up to this year she's never averaged more than 1 attempt a game.

Now she averages 1.5.

Yes but she is going to take more against South Carolina because a winning strategy to to pull the bigs out of the paint on defense. That is why she took 5 against you guys in November. Against most teams they don't need her around the perimeter. Regular season states are meaningless when the game plan in different.