Saw a quote fom Joe Torre last night.

[Palatine]

Some baseball show that was featuring his great Yankee teams.

He said, "Winning builds chemistry." Not chemistry builds winning. He put winning first. Not a Yankee fan but I agree. Win and you will get chemistry. Win and you can have any culture you like. Don't win. There will be no chemistry. You won't have a chance to build a culture.

I have had this discussion with many on this board. Win and you can have any culture you want. Win and your teams will develop culture. If you want the players to follow. Show them the wins.

 

[BlueMAB]

How's that working out for Pitino?

 

[BGesus4]

Chemistry means very little in baseball. Not the case in basketball.

 

[Chin Diesel]

I'll say winning validates whatever chemistry already was there which reinforces goals leading to more chemistry.

 

[Pmurph678]

Kind of misses the point. Everyone is trying to find ways to win (I.e talent, chemistry, scheme, etc)

If your already winning then obviously none of that matters, the hard part is figuring out how to win.

 

[gtcam]

The Chicago Cubs didn't win pennants but always had a team chemistry
Teams can have chemistry and not win

 

[dennismenace]

Here's my favorite (in addition to Chin Diesel above) :

“It's not the will to win that matters-everyone has that. It's the will to prepare to win that matters.”
Paul "Bear" Bryant AMERICAN COLLEGE FOOTBALL PLAYER AND HEAD COACH

 

[wheelerdog]

He could have also said "Mariano Rivera made me a great manager"

 

[jkfer98]

I think winning allows chemistry to have a face. A losing team isn't going to be skipping around high-fiving each other like everything is fine, but they still might be a close-knit group who genuinely likes each other.

Perfect example, this year's team. These guys definitely considered the team a family even before they started to win. Once they started to string together wins, the underlying chemistry revealed itself.

 

[Jbirdp5]

Chemistry means very little in baseball. Not the case in basketball.

Thread can end with this point right here......baseball And basketball are night and day in this regard.....not to mention the difference between professionals and college kids

 

[Palatine]

Here's my favorite (in addition to Chin Diesel above) :

“It's not the will to win that matters-everyone has that. It's the will to prepare to win that matters.”
Paul "Bear" Bryant AMERICAN COLLEGE FOOTBALL PLAYER AND HEAD COACH

Bryant said a lot of smart things about sports.

My favorite: "Luck follows speed."

 

[HCCForever]

A good quote from Vince on this subject.

"It’s easy to have faith in yourself and have discipline when you’re a winner, when you’re number one. What you got to have is faith and discipline when you’re not a winner."

 

[dennismenace]

A good quote from Vince on this subject.

"It’s easy to have faith in yourself and have discipline when you’re a winner, when you’re number one. What you got to have is faith and discipline when you’re not a winner."

Another by Vince : "Winning isn't everything; it's the only thing"

 

[Lamble]

another favorite - winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is.

 

[mussels]

It's easy to grin when your ship comes in,
and you've got the stock market beat
But the man worthwhile, is the man who can smile
When his pants are too short in the seat.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

Baseball is a sport where you can have a great team we’re everyone hates each other.
The legendary 1927 Yankees considered one of the greatest teams of all times had guys who didn’t speak to each other.
Basketball is a sport where success comes totally from a chemistry .
The 2014 NC’s epitomized chemistry. It was a combination of reaction to unfair punishment and guys playing together for a long time.

 

[Scoe]

Effort is easy and overrated, when effort needs to be pointed out its a defense mechanism for losing, its accepting losing. Work smarter not harder, work is about production not effort, so in sports results are based on winning which is production. Production=Winning.

 

[wheelerdog]

Just win baby

 

[dennismenace]

He could have also said "Mariano Rivera made me a great manager"

LOL Great insight!!!

 

[Sphinx]

Again proving that successful people often have little idea what made them successful. Introspection is not usually an achiever's strong suit. Torre's quote is only a little less vapid than Lombardi's famous nothingism.

 

[mauconnfan]

For those who would love to crap on Torre because he had some great players that's fine I get it. But much like those who crap on KO for "winning the 2014 NC" with JC's players Torre was a genius with his teams like it or not. The culture of being a true Yankee like Jeter, Rivera, Pettite, Posada, Williams and a few others during his successful run was accentuated by his ability to bring players in and create the necessary atmosphere for them to feel at home, change their ways even maybe to fit. It was pretty amazing to bring in guys like O'Neill, Duncan, Curtis, Hayes, Brosius, Polonia and so many others to help round out those winning teams.

I get it they were good teams but sometimes there's a reason they still need to be managed and he was one of the truly good managers over the years without a doubt. Pretty sure Mo can't get saves without leads after all. LOL

 

[HCCForever]

For those who would love to crap on Torre because he had some great players that's fine I get it. But much like those who crap on KO for "winning the 2014 NC" with JC's players Torre was a genius with his teams like it or not. The culture of being a true Yankee like Jeter, Rivera, Pettite, Posada, Williams and a few others during his successful run was accentuated by his ability to bring players in and create the necessary atmosphere for them to feel at home, change their ways even maybe to fit. It was pretty amazing to bring in guys like O'Neill, Duncan, Curtis, Hayes, Brosius, Polonia and so many others to help round out those winning teams.

I get it they were good teams but sometimes there's a reason they still need to be managed and he was one of the truly good managers over the years without a doubt. Pretty sure Mo can't get saves without leads after all. LOL

I have a question about Rivera. I watched the Ken Burns 10th Inning Documentary. They showed Rivera cutting his nails during a multi inning stint he had. Was that just some neurotic habit? You would think he could take care of that prior to the game unless his nails grow at an amazing rate.

 

[Scoe]

For those who would love to crap on Torre because he had some great players that's fine I get it. But much like those who crap on KO for "winning the 2014 NC" with JC's players Torre was a genius with his teams like it or not. The culture of being a true Yankee like Jeter, Rivera, Pettite, Posada, Williams and a few others during his successful run was accentuated by his ability to bring players in and create the necessary atmosphere for them to feel at home, change their ways even maybe to fit. It was pretty amazing to bring in guys like O'Neill, Duncan, Curtis, Hayes, Brosius, Polonia and so many others to help round out those winning teams.

I get it they were good teams but sometimes there's a reason they still need to be managed and he was one of the truly good managers over the years without a doubt. Pretty sure Mo can't get saves without leads after all. LOL

I dont think I would classify Oneill as a guy to bring in, but I get your jive. Oneill was instrumental in changing the Yankees culture from a losing organization into a winning culture, the 26 consecutive winning season goes all the way back to the year Oneill got there in 93. You should read up on the book "Chumps to Champs" its a fascinating read on the pre championship Yankee teams, gives great insight on how much Showalter changed the culture and brought in culture changers. Of course Torre got them to that next step.

 

[dennismenace]

I'll say winning validates whatever chemistry already was there which reinforces goals leading to more chemistry.

For those who would love to crap on Torre because he had some great players that's fine I get it. But much like those who crap on KO for "winning the 2014 NC" with JC's players Torre was a genius with his teams like it or not. The culture of being a true Yankee like Jeter, Rivera, Pettite, Posada, Williams and a few others during his successful run was accentuated by his ability to bring players in and create the necessary atmosphere for them to feel at home, change their ways even maybe to fit. It was pretty amazing to bring in guys like O'Neill, Duncan, Curtis, Hayes, Brosius, Polonia and so many others to help round out those winning teams.

I get it they were good teams but sometimes there's a reason they still need to be managed and he was one of the truly good managers over the years without a doubt. Pretty sure Mo can't get saves without leads after all. LOL

I don't consider the comment about Mariano Rivera to be crapping on Joe Torre as much as a comment that reflects the quality of the pitching (which included names like Clemens, Cone, Petit and others in addition to Rivera who was just the greatest reliever in history) defense and timely hitting of those teams. BTW, he did not bring them in; the front office (mainly Gene Michael and George) did. What Joe Torre was able to do (kind of a miracle) was get between Steinbrenner and the players and keep his mouth shut when George would blow up. Very low key in an explosive atmosphere. He had a quiet confidence. Similar to what Bob Lemon did when he took over the Yankees from Billy Martin and managed them to an improbable comeback from 14 games back after they got healthy to win it all. Joe Torre also learned from losing (ie: what doesn't work). His lifetime record as a manager with the Mets, Braves and Cardinals in 14 years was sub .500 (.471). His subsequent record with the Dodgers in 3 years was 259-227 (.533). Not very stunning. He was the right chemistry to deal with George Steinbrenner and keep the players focus on the field. In that respect he did what probably no one else was or would be ever able to do. For that feat my hat is off to him. I found the comment about Rivera also funny because when Casey Stengel managed the Yankees to all those World Series the cynical remark around at the time was that "Shirley Temple could have managed those teams to those titles." Again, not accurate as Stengel was a good manager but the talent he had around him was phenomenal.

 

[mauconnfan]

I dont think I would classify Oneill as a guy to bring in, but I get your jive. Oneill was instrumental in changing the Yankees culture from a losing organization into a winning culture, the 26 consecutive winning season goes all the way back to the year Oneill got there in 93. You should read up on the book "Chumps to Champs" its a fascinating read on the pre championship Yankee teams, gives great insight on how much Showalter changed the culture and brought in culture changers. Of course Torre got them to that next step.

O’Neill was twice the player as a Yank than a Red but I hear you. Torre was really good fitting the pieces in place. But by no means do I ignore the fact he had really good players.