Sally Jenkins Wash Post Column

[JoePgh]

View attachment 2710
Maybe this will help clarify if there was contact.

And it also clarifies that the defender was not in Caroline's space in a basketball sense. The defender had a right to be where she was, playing close defense.

 

[asuwish]

I actually think it was a ridiculous foul call. It was apparent her arms were directly above her body. In my mind that space belongs to the ballplayer and it was Smith's face that encroached into Caroline's space, thus a foul on her face. At no point was elbows out recklessly. A really stupid call and an imbecile who would even suggest a blatant foul. I would have thrown Reid who brutalized Dolson out of the game and maybe suspended her for a few games starting next season (unless she's a senior, of course). There is such a world of difference in the two calls.

You are wrong. the rule is an elbow above the shoulders is a foul, the offensive player doesn't get to claim that space. Being such a new rule most players are still adapting. Intent is applied to weather it is a level 1 or 2 foul, but it is on the offensive player. Because she did not do it with intent it was only a 1. You are right that Reids foul carried intent, but because she hit Dolson in the area of the ball it was also a 1.

 

[Vowelguy]

Yeah, the whole "U-Conn." thing... is Jenkins using a stylebook from the 1820s? It's silly stuff like this that necessitates UConn (one un-hyphenated word, two caps, no period) as the brand.

The Wash Post surely has editors who adhere to a style guide. Nothing to do with Jenkins.

 

[JoePgh]

Just a legalistic question about this episode:

After the incident, play continued and Stewie scored a layup to make the score 7-5. Then the refs (at Walz's request, apparently) went back to look at the replay and ruled that there had been a Flagrant 1 foul. So why didn't they take Stewie's basket off the scoreboard and reset the clock to the time of the foul that they had just discovered? Wouldn't that be the logical thing to do? Instead, the basket stood and the elapsed time after the incident was not rolled back. It didn't make a difference in this game, but no one knew at the time that would be the case.

I liked the article and was not bothered (except in one case) by the critical points mentioned here. But I agree that this incident had nothing to do with the 19-0 run, which started several minutes later in the game clock. Immediately after the incident, the score went from 5-5 to 14-10 in favor of Louisville before UConn's run started.

The one point in the article that concerned me was the rather vivid reference to the UConn women's muscles. The author probably didn't intend anything by that comment, but in today's world of sports commentary (post Lance Armstrong), that is open to interpretation as subtle innuendo about possible illegal use of performance enhancing drugs. I had visions of East German female Olympians as I read that sentence. A prudent editor would have recognized that and removed this wholly unsubstantiated innuendo (most likely unintended).

 

[Icebear]

The rule is that if no whistle occurs play continues until the next dead ball. All things remain the same through the dead ball. A flagrant foul does not create a dead ball.

 

[storrsroars]

Sadly, the NYT article has reality crashing the celebration in the penultimate paragraph:

Next season, UConn will probably be ranked No. 1 while playing in a rump league called the American Athletic Conference.

 

[Kibitzer]

Wash Post - link

"The Huskies’ Caroline Doty threw a flagrant elbow to the face of Louisville guard Bria Smith that left her writhing on the floor, and that started the pasting."

IMHO this reads as if Caroline intentionally threw the elbow instead of the accidental contact it was. She makes it read like it was a dirty play. Am I reading too much into the sentence?

You are not.

First, Caroline did not throw an elbow to Smith's face. As Doris Burke commented then, Caroline made a "basketball move," by holding the ball up and away from a close defender. As she spun, the contact was inadvertent and by no means intentional. The refs made the correct call, flagrant foul 1, based on a combination of strict adherence to the rules and compliance with the "point of emphasis" about elbow contact that can be injurious. We may never know if they were also motivated by a determination to make sure that this game would not be characterized by the extensive physical contact that occurred in the Louisville-Baylor game.

Second, this foul did not ignite the "pasting." As has been noted, the score when Smith got bopped was about 5-5. The big UConn run of 19 unanswered points started at 14-10 (Louisville leading) when Hartley made a steal and a layup, followed by 17 more consecutive UConn points.

As for the florid prose by Jenkins, I would steal a phrase from The Bard to describe it: "Too clever by half." Especially the careless editing (e.g., "U-Conn.") and that silly stuff about the muscularity of the Huskies.

 

[Bestiarius]

A player has the right to clear space. That can even be done with the elbows. Tina Charles was great at it. But they don't have the right to elbow another player in the face in the act of clearing space.

Some pertinent info from the rules book. I think the officials got it right.

Art. 7. The following shall be considered excessive swinging:
a. When arm(s) and elbow(s) are swung about while using the shoulders as
pivots, and the speed of the extended arm(s) and elbow(s) exceeds that of
the rest of the body as it rotates on the hips or on the pivot foot; or
b. When the speed and vigor with which the arm(s) and elbow(s) are swung
is such that injury could result if another player were contacted.

Definitions. 4-29.2.c.6. In summary, contact with an elbow that occurs above the
shoulders of an opponent when the elbows are not swung excessively per 4-36.7.a
is a flagrant 1 personal foul and results in two free throws and the ball awarded to
the offended team (2010-2011 rule change).

Officials and Their Duties. 2-13.2.d.1.b. A coach may request a monitor
review to determine if any of the fouls in 2-13.2.d.1 occurred. When no such foul
is assessed, a timeout shall be charged to that team

Flagrant 1 or Flagrant 2 Fouls for Elbow Contact
Officials are reminded that there can be incidental contact with the elbow above
or below the shoulders; swinging of the elbow is required for the foul to be
classified as a flagrant 1 or 2 foul. Some incidental contact is being penalized
improperly.

d. Flagrant 2 personal foul. A flagrant 2 personal foul shall be a personal
foul that involves contact with an opponent that is not only excessive, but
also severe or extreme while the ball is live.

 

[CL82]

View attachment 2710
Maybe this will help clarify if there was contact.

See, now I am just not seeing it. Is it me?



or alternatively...Can we be sure this wasn't photoshopped?

 

[bballnut90]

Did Doty even make contact? I thought the Ville player just sold it. I couldn't tell when from my so comfortable reclined position on the couch.

Doty definitely made contact...Smith was down for a long time and was pretty fired up after. Additionally, Doty came over and apologized once there was a dead ball-doubtful she does that if no contact was made.

 

[Buzzyboy]

Not intentional, maybe semi-intentional, and contact in the course of normal space clearing action. Louisville's only real chance was to play harrassing close-up defense like they did with Baylor and then hope that the Huskies would be rattled and their play would be disrupted. Smith hits the floor, and it seemed to me that a lot of steam went out of the aggressiveness of the Cards D. They still got plenty of steals with quick hands, but the Huskies were open, and it is no coincidence that UConn went immediately on a 19-0 run. Maybe if Griner had "oops, sorry" laid out a defender early in the Sweet 16 game, it would have been a different match up in the NC. Subconsciously, you don't want to get that close to a Husky ball handler when you're thinking about your face being cratered.

I can't believe how many people on this site are misrepresenting what happened. Doty's arms were extended directly over her head and at no time was she swinging them in such a manner as to "clear space". She owns the spot directly above her body (in my mind) and it was the Louisville player that "invaded Doty's space) that resulted in her getting hit. I almost feel that she should have been called for a foul for invading Doty's space. Maybe Doty should have remained perfectly still and allowed the Louisville player to either steal the ball from her or at least tie her up. What utter nonsense.

 

[boontonbomber]

I can't believe how many people on this site are misrepresenting what happened. Doty's arms were extended directly over her head and at no time was she swinging them in such a manner as to "clear space". She owns the spot directly above her body (in my mind) and it was the Louisville player that "invaded Doty's space) that resulted in her getting hit. I almost feel that she should have been called for a foul for invading Doty's space. Maybe Doty should have remained perfectly still and allowed the Louisville player to either steal the ball from her or at least tie her up. What utter nonsense.

absolutely. smith definitely should have been called for smacking caroline's elbow with her forehead.

 

[CL82]

absolutely. smith definitely should have been called for smacking caroline's elbow with her forehead.

Hah, you could not be more wrong...she smacked Caroline with her mouth.

 

[Vowelguy]

Newsflash: We WON.

 

[alexrgct]

Newsflash: We WON.

Thank you. Can this thread die now? Enjoy the national championship!

 

[Vowelguy]

 

[Biff]

 

[DobbsRover2]

I can't believe how many people on this site are misrepresenting what happened. Doty's arms were extended directly over her head and at no time was she swinging them in such a manner as to "clear space". She owns the spot directly above her body (in my mind) and it was the Louisville player that "invaded Doty's space) that resulted in her getting hit. I almost feel that she should have been called for a foul for invading Doty's space. Maybe Doty should have remained perfectly still and allowed the Louisville player to either steal the ball from her or at least tie her up. What utter nonsense.

That's a hoot! Smith's head was over CD's body? Smith was kind of floating up there over CD? Not even close.

Smith had her head leaning in on CD and she got clipped as CD swung the ball from chest high to over her head. No big deal. Stuff happens, and no, every time a defender gets in close to grab the ball she does not usually get whacked. But CD was establishing the rules and limits for the rest of the game like a savvy senior, and the space opened up big time for UConn.

But the revelers want to stop having to force themselves to read this thread so they can enjoy their nirvana. So deep-6.

 

[ThisJustIn]

Looking at the video it's clear, as 'yarders in this thread have suggested, that not only did Caroline NOT make contact, but Smith threw herself to the floor and pretended to be hurt.

"Never let the facts get in the way of a good story."

 

[DaddyChoc]

View attachment 2710
Maybe this will help clarify if there was contact.

I don't see anything... let me take off my blue-colored glasses maybe I'll see it better

 

[meyers7]

View attachment 2710
Maybe this will help clarify if there was contact.

Like I said earlier in the thread to someone, she popped her pretty good. Doty pretty much always gets her licks in.

 

[meyers7]

The one point in the article that concerned me was the rather vivid reference to the UConn women's muscles. The author probably didn't intend anything by that comment, but in today's world of sports commentary (post Lance Armstrong), that is open to interpretation as subtle innuendo about possible illegal use of performance enhancing drugs. I had visions of East German female Olympians as I read that sentence. A prudent editor would have recognized that and removed this wholly unsubstantiated innuendo (most likely unintended).

I didn't take it like that at all. I looked at it as a complement. It went along with the article that UCONN (or U-Conn) just works that much harder than other teams.

 

[meyers7]

I can't believe how many people on this site are misrepresenting what happened. Doty's arms were extended directly over her head and at no time was she swinging them in such a manner as to "clear space".

Ummm NO. You are completely wrong here. She absolutely was trying to clear space. You could see it on her face when she sat down on the bench, "I bet they are not up in my grill next time."

And she might even have been trying to send a message. But either way message was sent and received.

 

[meyers7]

I think we should. It was a good play by Doty.

 

[vtcwbuff]

I didn't take it like that at all. I looked at it as a complement. It went along with the article that UCONN (or U-Conn) just works that much harder than other teams.

Absolutely. They are athletes. To write that the UConn women appear to be in better physical shape than their opponents is a compliment. The days when female muscles were considered unattractive (not the word I want) has long passed.

Even Jenkins wouldn't be dumb enough to imply that the UConn team was doping. They get that way because Auriemma is a taskmaster.