Sacred Heart Coach Suspended for Running up Score (merged)

[Puppy Love]

Exactly. That’s one of the best teams in the states and those kids have been playing together since 3rd grade. Nowadays, these CT girls don’t know if their gonna play their next game or finish their schedule at all. Some teams have missed 3-4 games already due to COVID protocols. So some of these girls haven’t played in two weeks and you want them to “ play nice “ or “ half play “. It’s not the kids faults. Lyman Hall, a private school, shouldn’t have a team that puts girls at risk of that level of embarrassment

Lyman Hall is a public high school in the Wallingford school district.

 

[nwhoopfan]

I can't help but recall Bobby Bowden's philosophy on this kind of game. Paraphrasing probably, something like "It's not my job to stop my team, it's the other coach's job to stop my team."

 

[pk1234]

I watched the game. I’m a 1000% CT girls basketball dad, instructor, coach and donor that has three daughters (ages 8-15) that play basketball in New Haven county. It’s been my life for almost a decade. My kids have been opponents of that Sacred Heart coach , year round ( AAU, Travel, and now High School) for a decade. He’s a good guy and champion of the sport.

From my observation, the focus should be on why is Lyman Hall, a private school, fielding a team that is that weak. The coach of Lyman Hall has been their 19 YEARS!!!! Lyman Hall is in a situation in which they can recruit girls. No excuse.

Overall, Connecticut is the size of a broom closet but these towns feel that they can have 3-5 high schools that have competitive basketball. Impossible. You can’t have the same amount of high school and AAU teams as larger states and expect to be competitive.
It’s a major issue. There’s just not enough girls for every team. Lyman Hall, and others, should consider canceling their program or merge with another weak program.

Lyman Hall is a Public school with Class L enrollment. It is 48th out of 181 schools in the state in terms of enrollments of girls. They have enough kids to put a program together, they're just way down this year. And SHA is way, way up.

And with COVID and stuff the gaps between whose playing year round and whose training year round have widened.

 

[Puppy Love]

I think it comes down to a question of what message/lesson we want to give to high school girls. For me, the message of this game was to tell the Lyman Hall kids ‘here is a situation where you cannot compete and we expect you to be cannon fodder’. This wasn’t a game where there could be learning experiences that Lyman Hall could take to the next game. The were outmatched in every respect. Mostly, I fault the adults that allowed this game to be scheduled. But I also blame the Sacred Heart coach for not doing many things that would have kept the score down a bit.

Sports for girls are SO important in learning teamwork, learning to overcome obstacles, self esteem, lifelong physical fitness and just plain having fun. It’s hard to see how a game like this does much towards those goals.

 

[pk1234]

I think it comes down to a question of what message/lesson we want to give to high school girls. For me, the message of this game was to tell the Lyman Hall kids ‘here is a situation where you cannot compete and we expect you to be cannon fodder’. This wasn’t a game where there could be learning experiences that Lyman Hall could take to the next game. The were outmatched in every respect. Mostly, I fault the adults that allowed this game to be scheduled. But I also blame the Sacred Heart coach for not doing many things that would have kept the score down a bit.

Sports for girls are SO important in learning teamwork, learning to overcome obstacles, self esteem, lifelong physical fitness and just plain having fun. It’s hard to see how a game like this does much towards those goals.

How do you suggest avoiding this game from being scheduled? Should Lyman Hall have just forfeited when they knew they had a weak team this year? It was a conference game, that is typically competitive between these two schools. LH was better than SHA as recently as 3-4 years ago.

SHA should have pressed in the first quarter, went up 30-0, then ran offense, got the JV team in, and left with a 65-15 win. Wouldn't have been hard to do at all. Learning experience for that coach who probably has a good enough team that he'll be in this situation again.

 

[Horatio]

Lyman Hall is a Public school with Class L enrollment. It is 48th out of 181 schools in the state in terms of enrollments of girls. They have enough kids to put a program together, they're just way down this year. And SHA is way, way up.

And with COVID and stuff the gaps between whose playing year round and whose training year round have widened.

Magnet schools and Private schools have ruined public school basketball, especially for girls. Just too many schools with teams and not enough girls. Also, if the town doesn’t have a travel basketball program (feeder) you gonna have weak teams and gaps. Early development is key. The Sacred Heart coach is the lead in all aspects of girls basketball pre-college. Travel, AAU and high school. He puts the work in year round. Others just have to catch up or move aside.

 

[Stymie]

I don’t give a crap if he coaches in the NBA part time.
No excuse Is sufficient.

 

[the Q]

It’s hard to tell how much of that is reaction to the score, and how much of that was his specific actions.

Keeping the press on, fast breaking and refusing to go zone makes his decision making seem suspect though.

The article clearly says he took the press off and went to man to man.

It also says 12 girls scored and the leader only had 13 points. So the bench scored plenty.

It also says they “continued to shoot 3s” but apparently only made 5 for the game…

Also, why shouldn’t the bench players fast break? They want to get on the board as well. Games like this give them a chance to score some points too.

Playing man To man is not an indictment. That’s a normal half court defense

 

[the Q]

Magnet schools and Private schools have ruined public school basketball, especially for girls. Just too many schools with teams and not enough girls. Also, if the town doesn’t have a travel basketball program (feeder) you gonna have weak teams and gaps. Early development is key. The Sacred Heart coach is the lead in all aspects of girls basketball pre-college. Travel, AAU and high school. He puts the work in year round. Others just have to catch up or move aside.

Absolutely. Give them their own league and tournament.

 

[the Q]

A few years ago, our girls' 5th/6th grade coach was out sick and I had to step in to coach his away game.

We got dominated. They had an athletic 5'10 player who would lead a half court trap (no press allowed until last minute of game) and then drive for a layup. My team was mostly new players and it was early in the season, so they had trouble adjusting to my strategy to break the half-court trap.

By the middle of the 2nd quarter, the other team barely used their seven bench players and we were down something like 22-0. I asked the other coach what is #33 doing still in the game? and his response was she's a sixth grader, we get that asked a lot or some idiotic response like that.

He didn't sit the girl or adjust their half-court trap strategy til midway through the 3rd quarter. I think we ended up losing the game 40-6.

By the end of the game, the ref was a classy guy and commiserated with me how I tried to handle the game, but I was fuming. After texting my AD, I got an apology email from the school's AD the following day. Next time I visited the school, the AD met with me in person to tell me that coach no longer works for the school...

In summary, I agree with this suspension .

I ref games at that age level (travel)

It’s a nightmare as there are programs that want to press when they’re up 40 because they can.

Frankly I just start calling it super tight when they do that or do a half court trap.

But if you just drop back and play m2m, I man, that’s a legit normal defense that kids need to learn.

 

[Kaizen]

Am confused.
The coach can do better by using all his bench players and not playing too offensively. If he did that then it is not his fault. He cannot tell his players not to play and not to score.

In school do you complain a student who is too smart and always to be the #1 in class, and then suspend this student?

 

[undersized]

Honestly, it's an impossible situation to judge without seeing film. Until then, not much more can be said about it.

 

[the Q]

Am confused.
The coach can do better by using all his bench players and not playing too offensively. If he did that then it is not his fault. He cannot tell his players not to play and not to score.

In school do you complain a student who is too smart and always to be the #1 in class, and then suspend this student?

It says 12 different players scored. How many teams can do that?

 

[pk1234]

Magnet schools and Private schools have ruined public school basketball, especially for girls. Just too many schools with teams and not enough girls. Also, if the town doesn’t have a travel basketball program (feeder) you gonna have weak teams and gaps. Early development is key. The Sacred Heart coach is the lead in all aspects of girls basketball pre-college. Travel, AAU and high school. He puts the work in year round. Others just have to catch up or move aside.

10 of the last 12 state champs in girls basketball are Public Schools - not of choice, including the last 3 Class L champs and last 3 Class M champs.

Newington is #1 currently in the polls.

Private schools with strong programs shouldn't be playing in S or M. But don't give me that argument that the best publics can't compete with the best privates in the state.

 

[Blue Huskie]

They were "pressing"on defense into the third quarter. That's all you need to know. No reason that should ever take place in a mismatch like this. This lopsided score was very much avoidable.

 

[Blakeon18]

Seems relevant here: In 1990 Lisa Leslie in a high school game scored 101 points....in the first half!
The other coach simply took his/her team off the court and left the building at half-time.
That is not the high school record [for a full game]. Several others have topped that number...including
Epiphanny Prince who scored 113 in a complete game. As in Epiphanny of Murry Bergtraum High fame in NYC...as in Rutgers player, WNBA player etc. I remember a fan of hers [Oh Yeah] posting on the Boneyard frequently during her high school years.

I went to Glens Falls to watch some NY State tournament play...mainly to see UConn targets. In her soph year year Pip led Bergtraum to a close win over Tina Charles and her Christ The King team. Prince had 38 points and was as good as Oh Yeah touted. [Tina had 16/16 and looked to have the potential to be what she turned out to be.] Prince's
performance was one of the 2 or 3 best I have ever seen in person.

 

[Improviser]

In the above scenario with severely unbalanced teams, I would also suggest if you have a "score at will" center, that he or she move away from the basket to develop jump shooting skills rather than just make uncontested shots inside the paint.

This article appeared today in the New Haven Register.

Coaches say 92-4 CT girls basketball game should have been handled better: ‘That is really demoralizing’

The score turned heads across the state, prompting debate over whether it was bad sportsmanship or the team was simply playing competitive for a full game.

www.nhregister.com

 

[Carnac]

There is a school in my granddaughter’s high school league for basketball. It’s a non-public parochial all girls school. They are and have been the least competitive team in the league for years. Two days ago, this school lost to our team 72-5.

I’ve often wondered why this school was in our league. During the years when my granddaughter played, her coach would let the junior varsity team play them. The varsity team was on the bench in street clothes. Those games were always more competitive, even though we still won.

Those games were about sportsmanship. Both coaches knew what the outcome would be. Students that would normally come to our girls home games, would not attend this game.

I was not at this game, but it appears the varsity girls played this game. We also have an all boys school in the league which balances the schedules out. In my opinion, neither team benefited from Tuesday’s game.

I would like to see this all girls school get into a league comprised of other schools their size and athletic skill level. Competing against those schools would be more fun for the players and their parents that attend. One of the components of playing sports is to have fun. Where’s the fun in enduring a 72-5 beat down? If you had to watch your child take a loss of that magnitude, neither one of you would feel good about the game afterwards.

 

[the Q]

10 of the last 12 state champs in girls basketball are Public Schools - not of choice, including the last 3 Class L champs and last 3 Class M champs.

Newington is #1 currently in the polls.

Private schools with strong programs shouldn't be playing in S or M. But don't give me that argument that the best publics can't compete with the best privates in the state.

Fair.

It’s a far bigger issue on the mens side.

But you can’t do it for one and not the other

 

[pk1234]

Fair.

It’s a far bigger issue on the mens side.

But you can’t do it for one and not the other

It's a little bit of an issue on the men's side, sure. But still, the best team in the state this year is a public school. And they are playing Division II, lol.

Windsor might be the favorite in Division 1 and Bristol Central in D2.

I'd hate to give up big games like Windsor vs. NW Catholic tonight because we're segregating the powerhouse publics and privates.

Some public school programs are really good (helps when you get a 7'1" UConn recruit). Idk what the answer is.

 

[the Q]

It's a little bit of an issue on the men's side, sure. But still, the best team in the state this year is a public school. And they are playing Division II, lol.

Windsor might be the favorite in Division 1 and Bristol Central in D2.

I'd hate to give up big games like Windsor vs. NW Catholic tonight because we're segregating the powerhouse publics and privates.

Some public school programs are really good (helps when you get a 7'1" UConn recruit). Idk what the answer is.

At the very least every boy on the teams town counts toward the private school size.

So basically they’re all playing LL

 

[JonathanXIV]

So the coach is supposed to tell his players to stop playing?? This is ridiculous.

The coach pressed throughout the first half. He played tight man-to-man for the entire game. Ran the entire game and jacked 3’s, even when up 80-0 after 3 quarters.

His performance was disgraceful. This is high school sports. It supposed to be part of the learning experience. Coaches are teachers. What lesson was taught that game?

 

[Carnac]

No, that's why I asked in the opening post.
The fact that he's been suspended would seem to indicate that the coach wasn't cooperative.
But we don't know for sure from the article.

I agree with the suggestion that the game should not have been scheduled or played. It’s not fair to either team, and neither one can possibly benefit from playing it. No coach should have to tell or make his team stand down.

Under no circumstances do you embarrass another team like that either. I also think that the suspended coach should not be put in that position in the first place. In this case an error in judgment was made.

If there’s no way for him/her to avoid it, bite the bullet, only play your subs, only take 3 point shots (most subs can’t shoot that well, that’s why they’re subs), don’t take a shot with more than 5 seconds on the shot clock, and all five players keep one foot in the key at all times while on defense. You don’t play any defense or challenge an opposing player in the back court. By all means, play with a running clock.

 

[pk1234]

I agree with the suggestion that the game should not have been scheduled or played. It’s not fair to either team, and neither one can possibly benefit from playing it. No coach should have to tell or make his team stand down.

Under no circumstances do you embarrass another team like that either. I also think that the suspended coach should not be put in that position in the first place. In this case an error in judgment was made.

If there’s no way for him/her to avoid it, bite the bullet, only play your subs, only take 3 point shots (most subs can’t shoot that well, that’s why they’re subs), don’t take a shot with more than 5 seconds on the shot clock, and all five players keep one foot in the key at all times while on defense. You don’t play any defense or challenge an opposing player in the back court. By all means, play with a running clock.

I guarantee there are double-digit games scheduled every night in CT Girls Basketball where one team could be another team by a margin like this if they wanted to. It happens, especially on the girls side where numbers aren't as consistent.

This was a conference game, Lyman Hall is a Class L school who is historically competitive. The whole point of conferences is to keep schools that are relatively competitive with each other playing each other. You can't expect the SCC to look at the schedule every year and say "Oh well, Lyman Hall might not be that good this year so let's not schedule them to play SHA, Hand or Mercy".

This should have been a 60-15 beatdown. You don't need to "only take 3 point shots" to do that, just take the pressure defense off and no fast breaks. Play a tight zone, or "token" man-to-man.

 

[Kaizen]

Seems relevant here: In 1990 Lisa Leslie in a high school game scored 101 points....in the first half!
The other coach simply took his/her team off the court and left the building at half-time.
That is not the high school record [for a full game]. Several others have topped that number...including
Epiphanny Prince who scored 113 in a complete game. As in Epiphanny of Murry Bergtraum High fame in NYC...as in Rutgers player, WNBA player etc. I remember a fan of hers [Oh Yeah] posting on the Boneyard frequently during her high school years.

I went to Glens Falls to watch some NY State tournament play...mainly to see UConn targets. In her soph year year Pip led Bergtraum to a close win over Tina Charles and her Christ The King team. Prince had 38 points and was as good as Oh Yeah touted. [Tina had 16/16 and looked to have the potential to be what she turned out to be.] Prince's
performance was one of the 2 or 3 best I have ever seen in person.

Did they suspend Lisa Leslie school's coach? Just curious.

 

[Carnac]

I guarantee there are double-digit games scheduled every night in CT Girls Basketball where one team could be another team by a margin like this if they wanted to. It happens, especially on the girls side where numbers aren't as consistent.

This was a conference game, Lyman Hall is a Class L school who is historically competitive. The whole point of conferences is to keep schools that are relatively competitive with each other playing each other. You can't expect the SCC to look at the schedule every year and say "Oh well, Lyman Hall might not be that good this year so let's not schedule them to play SHA, Hand or Mercy".

This should have been a 60-15 beatdown. You don't need to "only take 3 point shots" to do that, just take the pressure defense off and no fast breaks. Play a tight zone, or "token" man-to-man.

Agreed, there are a number of things the coach could/ should have done to prevent a situation like this from occurring. I’d bet the farm that the coach was under 30. An older mature coach would not feel the need to do this. He embarrassed him/her self and the school.

This incident went viral. I’m in California and I heard about it already from another source. You don’t take out whatever issues or grievances you may have on the players. If I’m a parent of a player on the winning team, I’d have a hard time rooting and cheering her on.

The coach was suspended, good. The suspension should be for the remainder the school year for exercising poor and egregious behavior. That’s not how you want your athletic teams/program to be perceived.

Isn’t it also the goal of school athletic competition to promote and exhibit good sportsmanship? Where’s the good sportsmanship here?

 

[Carnac]

Did they suspend Lisa Leslie school's coach? Just curious.

Cheryl Miller and Epiphany Prince also had 100+ point games in high school.

 

[pk1234]

Agreed, there are a number of things the coach could/ should have done to prevent a situation like this from occurring. I’d bet the farm that the coach was under 30. An older mature coach would not feel the need to do this. He embarrassed him/her self and the school. This incident went viral. I’m in California and I heard about it already from another source. You don’t take out whatever issues or grievances you may have on the players.

The coach was suspended, good. The suspension should be for the remainder the school year for exercising poor and egregious behavior. That’s not how you want your athletic teams/program to be perceived. Isn’t it also the goal of school athletic competition to promote and exhibit good sportsmanship? Where’s the good sportsmanship here?

The coach is in his 40s I think, well known in the AAU circuit, used to coach a boys team. I think the one game suspension is enough for a first time offense (it's a big game tonight that he's missing too, Hamden is good). We don't need to go over the top. There's a lot of worse things he as a HS coach could do (and have done). I'm glad that it was the school that intervened and made it clear that it was against their mission and values and handed the suspension themselves. This isn't something the CIAC should get involved with unless it's a repeat offender.

 

[Blakeon18]

Kaizen: no mention of any punishment...for Lisa's coach or for the other team's coach for
pulling his team out after one half. Leslie was quoted at the time that she was disappointed
that she did not break the standing record. Much later she said she regretted her 'accomplishment'.

BTW: an article said she took 57 shots in the 16 minutes of play. She also had a bunch of foul shots.
Any missed field goal when you get fouled does not count as a shot. So..she probably took at least 64 attempts from the field. That would be one every 15 seconds...yikes!

 

[Horatio]

Last night, the same Sacred Heart team won against Hamden by three points. Hamden was down one starter and their 6th man.