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S. Carolina - Tennessee

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I will admit (as I throw up in my mouth a little bit) that Tennessee acquitted themselves better than I'd anticipated. I really thought it would be a 10-15 point SC win. However I'd be curious to see how the game would have played out if not for the absolutely dreadful calls by the refs in the 1st half that were momentum killers for SC. It seemed a couple times those awful calls stemmed a run by SC and they got distracted and "let" Tennessee back into the game. Still, a high energy game that was competitive and Tenn did a nice job handling SC's superior size. I did notice that Tenn basically only played 6 players. Only Nared (16 minutes) got any time off the bench.

I also want to add that I don't think Tennessee fans realize just how much they will miss seniors Massengale, Harrison and Burdick next year. Oh sure they say "we get Russell, Deshields, and Cooper". Um... ok. A really good individual player, an often injured post player, and a freshman PG. But we can debate that all day long because it's ALL speculation now. But my point is that Massengale, Burdick (and Harrison) are/were really good on this Tennessee team. Tennessee will struggle more next year than fans want to think.

I am curious what Tennessee fans think of their freshman class. We got to read all summer how "Nared is really a top 5 kid in her class", "Middleton outplayed ALL the other guards ranked ahead of her this summer", and "Dunbar is possibly the best shooter in the class".

I know UCONN fans are guilty of it too - we want all our recruits coming in to have the potential to be AA's, but the truth is it's highly unlikely. Are the freshmen as good as expected (honestly)? Given the preseason expectations I think decidedly not, but I'd like to hear from Tennessee fans.
 
Unless there's been a change, the SEC Tournament Champion is the Automatic Qualifier.

Last year South Carolina won the Regular Season Championship and Lady Vols won the SEC Tournament. The Lady Vols were the Automatic Qualifier.
 
The NCAA mandates that if you decide to have a conference tourney, that winner is the auto qualifier....not the regular season winner.
I think the Ivy League is the only conference that doesn't have a conference tourney.
 
AnotherVolFan said:
I love this teams resolve without their best player. They're giving SC a run for their money. Its a very good game honestly.
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Anyone wonder what the game and score would have been if Harrison had been able to play? Could she have been the game changer?
 
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I think Harrison could have made a difference. Still overall a good effort.
Eric you are right about Harrison, Burdick, and Massengale. They are going too be missed. All three have helped this team. I do think next year Russell will be a defensive stopper. Kind of like Griner was at Baylor. With her size and ability too make a difference.
 
blakeon18 said:
The NCAA mandates that if you decide to have a conference tourney, that winner is the auto qualifier....not the regular season winner. I think the Ivy League is the only conference that doesn't have a conference tourney.
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But, as we found out, the NCAA puts more stock in the regular season championship when seeding... or, at least they did in 2001, IIRC ;)
 
Overall TN comes out of this game better than SC. SC should have been able to blow TN away with Harrison out - instead they scratched out a win. Impressive performance by TN, not so much by SC.
 
Kind of conservative looking game stats for both teams. Not a huge amount of assists, but also not that many turnovers. Shooting was ehh, but okay except of course from the arc.

Two big stats are the -13 rebounding margin for UTenn and 1-8 three-pt shooting for the Game-c-o-c-ks. To be that far down on the boards even against a big team like USCar indicates possibly big issues ahead for UTenn against better teams. And again, a big team like USCar could be vulnerable to a team down the road that plays solid enough defense and can bomb from the outside consistently, unlike the C-o-c-ks.
 
If you look at the play by play, SC appeared to be padding their O-Board numbers - especially Welch who could not seem to make a lay-up but kept rebounding her own misses until the law of averages took over and the ball found the net. She had about 6 rebounds of her own misses.
 
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You will never hear this LV fan say those things, Eric. We will miss our 3 seniors tremendously next year, especially their leadership. I don't like to talk bad about specific players on any team, really, but at least 2 of the 3 have been wildly inconsistent throughout their years here at UT, so if DD, Russell and Cooper can at least correct that then I think we will be an improved team. I think people have been way to critical of Russell and think next year she will hopefully prove all the naysayers wrong. Yes, she has been out of playing the game for a whole year but she is finally healthy and she's been practicing with the team since at least January so she should be in good shape come next year. Diamond is competive and will be Diamond and from everything I've seen and heard about Cooper, she looks like she has the potential to be an upgrade from Massengale. As for the freshman, I still see the potential for Nared to be tremendous for this team. She is playing better and better every game. May not show up in the stats each game but her confidence is improving. Middleton has some catching up to do and I think she is trying to do too much while she is in the game instead of just letting the game come to her. Her confidence is low right now and she's hit a wall...we'll see if she can break through it. As for Dunbar, quite frankly, I don't know...she hasn't played enough for me to have an opinion on her at this point. She has a pretty shot but from what I hear needs improvement on the defensive side of the ball so that's why she doesn't get many minutes. IMO, I think all the freshman are pretty much about where I thought they'd be...no superstars but important role players that every team needs. We still need work overall if we ever hope to catch up to you guys...we'll see if we're any closer next year.
 
TN should of won, if coach studied the plan GA used ... The Key ...never let SC get in the "set" comfort zone ... slow then down on the inbounds, slow them down at half court, make them rush to get into their set...If this is done they will slip out of sync and rush their shot...
Next time use the clock against them ... TN by at least 10 points in their SEC Tourney!!.....
 
Just about all conferences have a regular season and tournament champion, and generally the importance of either them is largely in relation to if your team won but not the other. For most conferences outside of the top 10, it is the tournament champion who means more. Probably in 2013 the Vol fans thought their regular season SEC crown meant more than Texas A&M's SECT crown, especially since they got the higher seed.

The real importance of either championship is how much the selection committee weighs either one, though overall record is a big factor and the importance of either championship for the committee seems to vary year-by-year and connference-by-conference.

And B-in-G, great idea, the question though is whether UTenn has the quality of defenders to carry it out. Executing GA's strategies without GA's players is never easy.
 
UcMiami said:
If you look at the play by play, SC appeared to be padding their O-Board numbers - especially Welch who could not seem to make a lay-up but kept rebounding her own misses until the law of averages took over and the ball found the net. She had about 6 rebounds of her own misses.
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UcMiami,
You analysis is spot on. Welch pulled down 9 offensive rebounds within 3 feet of the rim. Coates and Ibiam made a living at the basket.

Volnation,
It is quite alarming that after getting beasted by Coates, Ibiam & Welch someone would watch that game and talk about Russell's "guard" skills. You better get that girl in the weight room, feed her as much as she can eat and hope for the best. I realize Welch and Ibiam graduate but Coates, Wilson and White will all be a year older. Graves was doing the best she could but she needs some major help in the form of height and bulk. UT has no post players committed for next year.
 
blakeon18 said:
The NCAA mandates that if you decide to have a conference tourney, that winner is the auto qualifier....not the regular season winner.
I think the Ivy League is the only conference that doesn't have a conference tourney.
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Auto qualifier, but not the league champion. To the other poster, no, I'm going to the NCAAT instead of the SECT this year. Little Rock is probably 750+ miles.
 
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cockhrnleghrn said:
Auto qualifier, but not the league champion. To the other poster, no, I'm going to the NCAAT instead of the SECT this year. Little Rock is probably 750+ miles.
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Ok, I was gonna say if you wanted to see the best WCBB conference tourney in person, then Greensboro is only a three hour drive for you:D
 
I saw parts of the game as I was watching the UConn game. It looked interesting, competitive, and fairly well played. Welch appeared to be the difference. I thought that SC nearly gave the game away, as their execution under pressure was less than stellar.

The result was about as I expected. I'm not quite sure where Baylor truly ranks, but I think they are in a group with ND and SC. Who is the best of that group? I'm sure we all have opinions, but I'm uncertain. SC is either the #2, #3, or #4 team. I think Tenn is in the next group with Maryland and maybe some others.
 
Tenn is going to have a tougher time in the SEC tournament. Last night their starters averaged 36 minutes after a three day rest and were cramping late in the game. If they face S Carolina in the SECT final it will be their third game in 3 days. With their depleted bench that could be their undoing. By then their legs may be shot while Wilson, Ibiam et al will still be 6'4"+
 
Some game observations...

SC played a better game than they did against UConn, the loss probably helped them, plus being on their home court in front of a great crowd.

Tenn played well considering the adjustments they had to make. Their biggest problem was not being able to box out from their reconfigured zone defense, and - to some extent - they can get better at that, although there's no cure for their comparative lack of height.

Burdick is a gamer and I enjoy watching her, but it's hard to do things against the #2 team in the country that you haven't been asked to do all year.

If Harrison had played, Tenn would have won. No doubt in my mind about that.

SEC Tourney rematch could go either way.... fatigue could be an issue for the LV's in the Finals, especially if they have a difficult game in the semis. But if they can do a bit better on the boards, I like Tenn's chances.
 
CocoHusky said:
So the regular season SEC champion gets an automatic bid to the NCAA tournament?
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No, the SECT winner is the automatic qualifier, but the SEC awards a regular season championship, which is considered to be the league champion and then there is a tournament champion.
 
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ericsandiego said:
I will admit (as I throw up in my mouth a little bit) that Tennessee acquitted themselves better than I'd anticipated. I really thought it would be a 10-15 point SC win. However I'd be curious to see how the game would have played out if not for the absolutely dreadful calls by the refs in the 1st half that were momentum killers for SC. It seemed a couple times those awful calls stemmed a run by SC and they got distracted and "let" Tennessee back into the game. Still, a high energy game that was competitive and Tenn did a nice job handling SC's superior size. I did notice that Tenn basically only played 6 players. Only Nared (16 minutes) got any time off the bench.

I also want to add that I don't think Tennessee fans realize just how much they will miss seniors Massengale, Harrison and Burdick next year. Oh sure they say "we get Russell, Deshields, and Cooper". Um... ok. A really good individual player, an often injured post player, and a freshman PG. But we can debate that all day long because it's ALL speculation now. But my point is that Massengale, Burdick (and Harrison) are/were really good on this Tennessee team. Tennessee will struggle more next year than fans want to think.

I am curious what Tennessee fans think of their freshman class. We got to read all summer how "Nared is really a top 5 kid in her class", "Middleton outplayed ALL the other guards ranked ahead of her this summer", and "Dunbar is possibly the best shooter in the class".

I know UCONN fans are guilty of it too - we want all our recruits coming in to have the potential to be AA's, but the truth is it's highly unlikely. Are the freshmen as good as expected (honestly)? Given the preseason expectations I think decidedly not, but I'd like to hear from Tennessee fans.
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I'll bite. I think Tennessee will definitely miss their seniors--they are the 3 leading scorers this year and all of them have had strong campaigns in their last season. That said, I think Tennessee will have a very different look next year and will build their offense around DeShields. You're also vastly diminishing Russell, Deshields and Cooper by crediting them as, "A really good individual player, an often injured post player, and a freshman PG." That's like describing Stewart and KML as "A good but streaky shooting forward and a 3 point specialist who can be beat off the dribble"

Here are the facts: DeShields will most likely be a preseason 1st Team All-American next year after being the NFOY in a very strong crop of freshmen. Russell was the #1 recruit in the country who has had injury problems the last two seasons but has major upside and if healthy, should be a significant upgrade at the center position from Moore/Graves right now. Cooper is supposed to be good, but I don't see her taking the reigns from day 1. UT's starting 5 will most likely be Reynolds, Carter, DeShields, Graves and Russell.

Tennessee's freshman class hasn't lived up to some fans expectations. I still think Nared has good upside and will take on a bigger role the rest of this season and as a sophomore. She'll be a good role player for Tennessee next season. Verdict is still out on Middleton and Dunbar. I don't see Dunbar being a major contributor at UT, but I wouldn't count out Middleton. She's been a bit all over the place this year. Her freshman campaign reminds me a bit of Sidney Spencer's freshman year at Tennessee, where Spencer seemed a bit out of control/not a great decision maker but she blossomed into an outstanding three point shooter and helped Tennessee to two titles.

That said about Tennessee's lack of performing freshmen, one can make the argument that UCONN's class hasn't been overwhelmingly good outside of Nurse. Edwards transferred early in the season, Ekmark has struggled, and while Gabby Williams is putting up big numbers in the AAC, she hasn't been factor in big games, only playing a grand total of 15 minutes in 4 games against top 25 opponents.
 
VFLfan said:
Wow...y'all are a tough crowd. I think tonight was a really well-played bball game by both teams. Both teams shot above 40% for the game and there were only 11 COMBINED TOs (6 by the LVs, 5 for USC) for the game. Granted, neither of the teams are on UCONNs level but c'mon...it wasn't a horrid game!
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Fun game to watch- Too bad, Izzy could have made a world of difference in this one. Hate seeing any of our players go down- :(
 
bballnut90 said:
I'll bite. I think Tennessee will definitely miss their seniors--they are the 3 leading scorers this year and all of them have had strong campaigns in their last season. That said, I think Tennessee will have a very different look next year and will build their offense around DeShields. You're also vastly diminishing Russell, Deshields and Cooper by crediting them as, "A really good individual player, an often injured post player, and a freshman PG." That's like describing Stewart and KML as "A good but streaky shooting forward and a 3 point specialist who can be beat off the dribble"

Here are the facts: DeShields will most likely be a preseason 1st Team All-American next year after being the NFOY in a very strong crop of freshmen. Russell was the #1 recruit in the country who has had injury problems the last two seasons but has major upside and if healthy, should be a significant upgrade at the center position from Moore/Graves right now. Cooper is supposed to be good, but I don't see her taking the reigns from day 1. UT's starting 5 will most likely be Reynolds, Carter, DeShields, Graves and Russell.

Tennessee's freshman class hasn't lived up to some fans expectations. I still think Nared has good upside and will take on a bigger role the rest of this season and as a sophomore. She'll be a good role player for Tennessee next season. Verdict is still out on Middleton and Dunbar. I don't see Dunbar being a major contributor at UT, but I wouldn't count out Middleton. She's been a bit all over the place this year. Her freshman campaign reminds me a bit of Sidney Spencer's freshman year at Tennessee, where Spencer seemed a bit out of control/not a great decision maker but she blossomed into an outstanding three point shooter and helped Tennessee to two titles.

That said about Tennessee's lack of performing freshmen, one can make the argument that UCONN's class hasn't been overwhelmingly good outside of Nurse. Edwards transferred early in the season, Ekmark has struggled, and while Gabby Williams is putting up big numbers in the AAC, she hasn't been factor in big games, only playing a grand total of 15 minutes in 4 games against top 25 opponents.
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Overall nice review, but the current rankings which maybe give way too much love to SEC players is only one way to look at a player's performance, especially when Gabby did play against another team that was ranked when UConn played them plus two others that have been ranked. So maybe it would be good to add in Gabby's figures from the teams that are in the top 25 of the Sagarin ratings, which doesn't include a #13 wreck like KY or a Cal team that lost to Long Beach State and by 23 to Kansas. The figure for Gabby's games against top 25 teams might give you less to dump on her about, especially when you consider that Geno generally needs to expand the minutes for starters against top 10 teams to help build stamina for the core unit in the Tourney. The others outside the top 4 include:

Green Bay: 13 minutes, 4-4 FGs, 4 rebounds, 10 points
DePaul: 20 minutes, 6-7 FGs, 7 rebounds, 14 points
USF: 20 minutes, 4-10 FGs, 8 rebounds, 9 points

There's a reason that Gabby has put up numbers that UTenn freshmen can only dream of even when they're playing the dregs of the SEC. She has played in top level games, and as the combined 14-21 shooting in the games you choose to ignore shows, it's a varied group of teams that she's been shining against.
 
ericsandiego said:
I don't disagree with Dawn. The UCONN game was a great barometer to see how far behind UCONN they are. But UCONN is not in their league, Tennessee is something like 50-3 vs. SC, and SC hasn't won the SEC in I don't know how many years (have they ever won it - season AND SEC championship?).

Tennessee hanging on by the skin of their teeth. To their credit their jump shots have been falling, but they are getting creamed in the post.
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I guess it would always be a more important game if you have a better chance of winning, on your own floor against a lesser opponent.
 
DobbsRover2 said:
Overall nice review, but the current rankings which maybe give way too much love to SEC players is only one way to look at a player's performance, especially when Gabby did play against another team that was ranked when UConn played them plus two others that have been ranked. So maybe it would be good to add in Gabby's figures from the teams that are in the top 25 of the Sagarin ratings, which doesn't include a #13 wreck like KY or a Cal team that lost to Long Beach State and by 23 to Kansas. The figure for Gabby's games against top 25 teams might give you less to dump on her about, especially when you consider that Geno generally needs to expand the minutes for starters against top 10 teams to help build stamina for the core unit in the Tourney. The others outside the top 4 include:

Green Bay: 13 minutes, 4-4 FGs, 4 rebounds, 10 points
DePaul: 20 minutes, 6-7 FGs, 7 rebounds, 14 points
USF: 20 minutes, 4-10 FGs, 8 rebounds, 9 points

There's a reason that Gabby has put up numbers that UTenn freshmen can only dream of even when they're playing the dregs of the SEC. She has played in top level games, and as the combined 14-21 shooting in the games you choose to ignore shows, it's a varied group of teams that she's been shining against.
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Of course a Tennessee fan would choose to ignore that. Sadie Edwards was never going to earn much PT in spite of her lofty rankings by the recruiting services. But Nurse and Williams have been spectacular. And of course, our incoming class of 2015 blows everyone else's away. And that's not even including adding in Butler, who technically is part of the Williams, Nurse and Ekmark class.
 
[If Harrison had played, Tenn would have won]

Take points away from somebody and time ,does not mean a win!!!!!

The whole game changes
 
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