S.C. Media Guy on Paige

[visitingcock]

Those who are downgrading Caitlin are being disingenuous about both her talent and her place in The Game. She has caused wbb media coverage and tv viewership to explode. If not for her, SCar would now be gunning for its 3rd straight title and second straight undefeated. That would be “ bad for wbb.” As much as I hated David hitting us between the eyes with logo stones, it was in the best interests of The Game

With that said, I would choose Paige to lead my team. I feel little love for what we called “ hot dogs” back in my day. I love it when I see my team’s box scores with six players in double figures who play under 30 minutes per game.

Anyway. Good luck til we meet again.

 

[huskeynut]

Caitlin Clark was ordained as POY in the fall. All media hype all season has been Caitlin Clark.

I get the scoring record. She hoists up a lot of shots each game. Her defense is suspect.

I'll take Paige anyday in the week. She is more efficient in her shot selections. She can rebound, assist and play some serious defense. She is a more complete player.

 

[Blacketh’D]

Not sure about CC being "best player hands down". She has been the beneficiary of relentless media hype ever since Paige went out with an ACL. Paige is much more versatile and IMO a better all-around player. And this stuff on the media of CC "redefining the women's game" is just that: a lot of "media stuff". I would like someone to lay out specifically ust how she has "redefined" the women's game. Give me a break.

Relentless media hype? She’s basically averaging 32 points, 8 rebounds, and 9 assists this year. With 46/38/85 shooting splits. It was hype when she was shooting from deep like sophomore year but she’s lived up to the attention she’s been given her whole college career. You’re telling me that player isn’t hands down player of the year? On a team that’s actually well ranked? No you give me a break.

i don’t think she’s redefining the game, and I don’t know why you would mention that to me, but i see her mass appeal. It looks like NBA basketball. You know…that thing that is the pinnacle of the sport. It’s all efficient play and the analytics game. Midrange and post up is dead and young fans don’t like it. It’s not going to get people into the product. We all know boneyard users aren’t the biggest nba watchers anymore and tend to be demographic wise on the older side. It’s okay if you don’t get Caitlin Clark. I would absolutely take Paige over her, there’s a reason from that high school to college transition period she was the darling of the sport. How she plays isn’t drawing the attention anymore on a UConn team that’s not elevated anymore. She loves the midrange, she’s being forced into the post, she’s been injured. You probably can’t even put together an argument outside of opinion on why CC isn’t hands down POY. We are all homers but sometimes you have to face facts.

 

[Bone Dog]

Caitlin Clark was ordained as POY in the fall. All media hype all season has been Caitlin Clark.

I get the scoring record. She hoists up a lot of shots each game. Her defense is suspect.

I'll take Paige anyday in the week. She is more efficient in her shot selections. She can rebound, assist and play some serious defense. She is a more complete player.

Much as I sympathize with this sentiment, the @The deacon in me requires me to disagree with the claim that Caitlin’s defense is suspect. She is a great defender when she is called on to be. Iowa’s defense isn’t structured around her. But I’ve seen her make some great defensive plays.

 

[omshanti]

Relentless media hype? She’s basically averaging 32 points, 8 rebounds, and 9 assists this year. With 46/38/85 shooting splits. It was hype when she was shooting from deep like sophomore year but she’s lived up to the attention she’s been given her whole college career. You’re telling me that player isn’t hands down player of the year? On a team that’s actually well ranked? No you give me a break.

i don’t think she’s redefining the game, and I don’t know why you would mention that to me, but i see her mass appeal. It looks like NBA basketball. You know…that thing that is the pinnacle of the sport. It’s all efficient play and the analytics game. Midrange and post up is dead and young fans don’t like it. It’s not going to get people into the product. We all know boneyard users aren’t the biggest nba watchers anymore and tend to be demographic wise on the older side. It’s okay if you don’t get Caitlin Clark. I would absolutely take Paige over her, there’s a reason from that high school to college transition period she was the darling of the sport. How she plays isn’t drawing the attention anymore on a UConn team that’s not elevated anymore. She loves the midrange, she’s being forced into the post, she’s been injured. You probably can’t even put together an argument outside of opinion on why CC isn’t hands down POY. We are all homers but sometimes you have to face facts.

Totally disagree that the midrange and post up is dead. We’re talking the women’s game, not the NBA. The reason the UConn team isn’t elevated is because of of injuries. I prefer the women’s game to the NBA, analytics or no anylitics. Yes, the media hype is fueling the CC hysteria. ESPN touts Caitlin Clark, then Iowa vs Holy Cross. You have to look at the media hysteria. That’s a fact.

 

[The deacon]

You guys need to learn to read better. I didn’t say anything critical about Caitlin. Defend her if you like, but leave me out of it. I’ve always said she’s a great player.

Thanks for the advice, Bone Dog. I'll definitely set to work on my reading comprehension...

 

[The deacon]

Lots of fascinating points made by many of my fellow BYers. I've enjoyed reading them.

I'll just add the point I've made numerous times over the past two seasons or so, especially this winter: we are blessed to be experiencing the Era of Paige and Caitlin, or Caitlin and Paige, if you prefer.

Several of you have made the point it's disingenuous to knock Caitlin to build up Paige, or vice versa. That's the heart of the matter to me. They're two great players who are friends, and treat us each time they play to beautiful basketball.

I root for both teams, if you can understand that, and would love to see both make it to the Final Four. But if either or both fall short of that standard, it wouldn't lessen my admiration for Paige and/or Caitlin and what they've achieved.

Come summertime, I'll be rooting for Caitlin to succeed in the WNBA... then, come autumn, I'll anxiously await the start of Paige's final Huskies season, hoping for another run to the Final Four.

Cheers, everyone. Thank you all for your thoughts...

 

[diggerfoot]

CC is hands down the NPOY..arguably the greatest wcbb player in history..

Sigh. It seems that people have the impression that Clark plays with the equivalence of EDD or Stiles teammates. Iowa is a freaking good team. Iowa shoots around 50%, but Clark only shoots around 46% so her teammates actually shoot about 5% points better. Do you think Delaware or SWMS shot like that? Seven of Clark’s teammates have a higher overall percentage than her, five have a higher 3fg%.

UConn also shoots around 50%, but Bueckers shoots at 53.8%, meaning collectively the team shoots probably about 5% points worse. This is probably closer to what EDD or Stiles dealt with (actually they probably had it worse), yet Clark is the greatest, presumably because of how much she lifts her inadequate teammates?

Greatest passer? On a team that averages about 5 more possessions a game, shoots better than the majority of wcbb, and is by far the main distributor for that team, Clark gets the most assists. This makes her the greatest passer? Her A/T ratio this year is around 1.85, down from last year (when her teammates collectively shot around 53%). Bueckers ratio is 2.65, Muhl’s is 2.45.

Even putting all that aside, can Clark play defense like Stewart? Catchings? Moore? Holdsclaw? Miller? Beard? Thomas?

If this was an Iowa fan board, or you were an Iowa fan, I would drop this. I have no problem with Clark getting NPOY. But this greatest ever and changing wcbb narrative on a UConn board from a UConn fan needs to be challenged.

 

[Bone Dog]

I root for both teams, if you can understand that, and would love to see both make it to the Final Four. But if either or both fall short of that standard, it wouldn't lessen my admiration for Paige and/or Caitlin and what they've achieved.

I'm with you on this one. I root for Iowa just this much, for them to make it to the Final Four where I hope they'll face UConn. I'd love to see one more UConn-Iowa game, since Caitlin has never been able to win against Paige or Azzi. Who knows? Maybe the third time is the charm .

 

[CONN78SEJ]

CC is hands down the NPOY..arguably the greatest wcbb player in history..Never mind how she scores but is the best passer in college and also pulls down 8 boards a game..Iowa could lose the first game and her legacy remains the same..Lets see if Paige can carry her team on her back along with AE another AA and bring Uconn to the championship game like Clark did last year including scoring 40 against undefeated SC

Let's see if Paige can carry Uconn to the championship game like Clark did last year

Iowa was not a one player team last year, they were a two player team with Czinano at center. This year Czinano is playing in the WNBA. That being said, getting blown out in the final 102-85 by LSU, didn’t help the Iowa mystique either.

 

[Bone Dog]

All kidding aside: I rooted for Iowa to beat LSU last year. I thought they were dealt a cruel hand by destiny in that one.

 

[BobbyJ]

Sigh. It seems that people have the impression that Clark plays with the equivalence of EDD or Stiles teammates. Iowa is a freaking good team. Iowa shoots around 50%, but Clark only shoots around 46% so her teammates actually shoot about 5% points better. Do you think Delaware or SWMS shot like that? Seven of Clark’s teammates have a higher overall percentage than her, five have a higher 3fg%.

UConn also shoots around 50%, but Bueckers shoots at 53.8%, meaning collectively the team shoots probably about 5% points worse. This is probably closer to what EDD or Stiles dealt with (actually they probably had it worse), yet Clark is the greatest, presumably because of how much she lifts her inadequate teammates?

Greatest passer? On a team that averages about 5 more possessions a game, shoots better than the majority of wcbb, and is by far the main distributor for that team, Clark gets the most assists. This makes her the greatest passer? Her A/T ratio this year is around 1.85, down from last year (when her teammates collectively shot around 53%). Bueckers ratio is 2.65, Muhl’s is 2.45.

Even putting all that aside, can Clark play defense like Stewart? Catchings? Moore? Holdsclaw? Miller? Beard? Thomas?

If this was an Iowa fan board, or you were an Iowa fan, I would drop this. I have no problem with Clark getting NPOY. But this greatest ever and changing wcbb narrative on a UConn board from a UConn fan needs to be challenged.

Some memories only go back about 2 years. They forget about Bueckers’ freshman year and all those other studs that played before her. To some people numbers are everything.

 

[GamecockFam]

I wouldn't put much stock into what Captain Will has to say. He is just a fan like us who just so happens to put his opinions on camera and likes to stir the pot for some views.

With that said, Paige is a fantastic player!

 

[fomalhaut]

If the midrange is dead, someone forgot to tell Ashlynn Shade.

 

[siouxzieb]

In response to WiseWillie, Caitlin Clark will win the NPOY, which entitles her being called the best player. In a way, she has refined the women's game, much like Steph Curry altered the NBA. Clark has demonstrated unparalleled shooting range and incorporated that into part of her normal game. Additionally, she is a dynamic passer with incredible court vision. She plays with flair, passion and a high-risk, high-reward style that attracts attention. Yes, she has helped immensely in growing the women's game.

In response to browns, CC's legacy is secure. Her run throughout last year's tourney is legendary. Lest we forget, Paige, when healthy, has led UConn to two Final Four's already. She has another season to add another NPOY to her mantle. I think too many people disregard how difficult it is to rejoin the upper echelons of sport after missing so much time due to injuries. What Paige has accomplished & performing as well as she has is largely going unnoticed nationally.

Anyone who knocks CC down or tries to diminish her accomplishments is not being magnanimous. There's no reason to tear down another player in support of the one you favor. She is spectacular, however, I believe a healthy Paige is the best overall player. Maybe not in terms of stats, but in baseball parlance, she is a 5-tool player.

Maybe UConn doesn't have the team to go all the way this year, but I feel Paige is significantly recovered to load the team on her back. I wouldn't be surprised to see UConn pull off a surprise or two.

The debate will continue, and like politics, people most likely won't change their minds. I acknowledge and applaud what Clark has done for herself, Iowa and women's basketball, but I would rather have Paige on my team.

I’m replying to this comment because it (not exclusively but effectively ) gives Clark every bit of her due. There was a time that I loved watching her play. But the combination of the nauseating media hype, her whining, flopping and showboating for the crowd really turned me off. It’s just not the style of basketball I like watching. I love UConn for their passionate yet workman-like style. And just for sheer enjoyment, I would rather watch Paige any day of the week v. watching Clarke. Paige does surprising things all over the court that delight me, the end. I’m still looking for PB to be The Tournament Ninja of 2024, screw NPOY–been there, don’t that.

 

[scotty0330]

The way she handles herself…give me Paige all day long over the field. She doesn’t have her dad telling her to grow up from stands. Amazing player and represents university and state very well.

The player she has morphed into this year where she has accepted power forward role, her defense and leadership has been amazing to watch. She isn’t just a great player but a spectacular one who makes others like Shade and KK that much better..

 

[omshanti]

I’m replying to this comment because it (not exclusively but effectively ) gives Clark every bit of her due. There was a time that I loved watching her play. But the combination of the nauseating media hype, her whining, flopping and showboating for the crowd really turned me off. It’s just not the style of basketball I like watching. I love UConn for their passionate yet workman-like style. And just for sheer enjoyment, I would rather watch Paige any day of the week v. watching Clarke. Paige does surprising things all over the court that delight me, the end. I’m still looking for PB to be The Tournament Ninja of 2024, screw NPOY–been there, don’t that.

You’ve read my mind and expressed this perfectly. Go Paige!!!

 

[Skeets]

OK, here's my 2 cents as if anyone cares. CC is the POY. Not because she's the media darling, not because of her less than eye opening FG% percentage, but because, from day1 to right now, she is the best in WCBB in America.

What does that mean? Does that mean Paige can't put the team on her back, and pull a Taurasi and lead UConn to the promised land? Paige has a very good team behind her. And unlike DT who had no seniors to help her, Paige has a pretty good team behind her. I'm with an NC for UConn. Stranger things have happened. Go UConn, go Paige take them there.

 

[asuwish]

CC is hands down the NPOY..arguably the greatest wcbb player in history..Never mind how she scores but is the best passer in college and also pulls down 8 boards a game..Iowa could lose the first game and her legacy remains the same..Lets see if Paige can carry her team on her back along with AE another AA and bring Uconn to the championship game like Clark did last year including scoring 40 against undefeated SC

Let's see if Paige can carry Uconn to the championship game like Clark did last year

CC is a great player. I love her game. She is fun to watch having fun out there, and I think she will be a great pro, but if you lined every woman who has played college ball since say 2000 and you started picking teams CC is not the first player chosen and maybe not the tenth player chosen. We like to hype the latest thing as the greatest thing. Candace Stewie Maya Brittany D and a couple others might have a say in the greatest player ever.

 

[huskyd]

I'm a WBB fan, a UCONN fan (That is nearly the same), for me Stewie is the biggest success story, Diana and Maya are legends, BUT the best all around basketball player in my eye is Paige.

And I really hope she will have an injury free season with her bestie.

Ah well, here we go again. Rather have Paige than any other UConn great, huh? So I will ask the same question I've asked every time this issue comes up: if you could pick only one player with whom to start a team, who would that be? Answer: Stewie. (How often did she play out of position?)

 

[WiseWillie]

Not sure about CC being "best player hands down". She has been the beneficiary of relentless media hype ever since Paige went out with an ACL. Paige is much more versatile and IMO a better all-around player. And this stuff on the media of CC "redefining the women's game" is just that: a lot of "media stuff". I would like someone to lay out specifically ust how she has "redefined" the women's game. Give me a break.

A post script:

"redefined the women's game"? How? By shooting long threes? Whoo Hoo. Have these supposedly brilliant sports commentators never heard of Sabrina Ionescu? And if looking at 3 pt %'s Clark 38%, Bueckers 42.1%, Taurasi 36.2%.

OK, what else does Clark bring to "redefine" the women's game? I'll wait while someone comes back with a valid answer besides the overwhelming media hype started by and continues to be promoted endlessly by none other than ESPN, their family of channels and and affiliates of Disney including ABC, et al. - all against long held and publicized criticism of biased coverage of certain teams (Iowa WBB being one?) and love affairs with superstar players (ESPN latched onto CC when PG was out with an ACL but can't jump ship and give PG the same publicity without looking foolish in the eyes of sports world so they continue the endless hype.)

It also doesn't help that Fox carries Big East games and ESPN does not. Their sports commentators aren't aware of this? Please.

 

[WiseWillie]

In response to WiseWillie, Caitlin Clark will win the NPOY, which entitles her being called the best player. In a way, she has refined the women's game, much like Steph Curry altered the NBA. Clark has demonstrated unparalleled shooting range and incorporated that into part of her normal game. Additionally, she is a dynamic passer with incredible court vision. She plays with flair, passion and a high-risk, high-reward style that attracts attention. Yes, she has helped immensely in growing the women's game.

In response to browns, CC's legacy is secure. Her run throughout last year's tourney is legendary. Lest we forget, Paige, when healthy, has led UConn to two Final Four's already. She has another season to add another NPOY to her mantle. I think too many people disregard how difficult it is to rejoin the upper echelons of sport after missing so much time due to injuries. What Paige has accomplished & performing as well as she has is largely going unnoticed nationally.

Anyone who knocks CC down or tries to diminish her accomplishments is not being magnanimous. There's no reason to tear down another player in support of the one you favor. She is spectacular, however, I believe a healthy Paige is the best overall player. Maybe not in terms of stats, but in baseball parlance, she is a 5-tool player.

Maybe UConn doesn't have the team to go all the way this year, but I feel Paige is significantly recovered to load the team on her back. I wouldn't be surprised to see UConn pull off a surprise or two.

The debate will continue, and like politics, people most likely won't change their minds. I acknowledge and applaud what Clark has done for herself, Iowa and women's basketball, but I would rather have Paige on my team.

Surly 1: No one is saying that Clark is not a great player, she most definitely is and may certainly be deserving of NPOY this year. But let's get real here. To say that she "redefines the game" flies in the face of all of the fantastic HOF players that have played and those that are playing in college and at the pro level. I can start naming some names but enough said.

In the end, we all are entitled our opinions. That's what makes forums like this if not exactly factual at least entertaining.

 

[Bone Dog]

A post script:

"redefined the women's game"? How? By shooting long threes? Whoo Hoo. Have these supposedly brilliant sports commentators never heard of Sabrina Ionescu? And if looking at 3 pt %'s Clark 38%, Bueckers 42.1%, Taurasi 36.2%.

OK, what else does Clark bring to "redefine" the women's game? I'll wait while someone comes back with a valid answer besides the overwhelming media hype started by and continues to be promoted endlessly by none other than ESPN, their family of channels and and affiliates of Disney including ABC, et al. - all against long held and publicized criticism of biased coverage of certain teams (Iowa WBB being one?) and love affairs with superstar players (ESPN latched onto CC when PG was out with an ACL but can't jump ship and give PG the same publicity without looking foolish in the eyes of sports world so they continue the endless hype.)

It also doesn't help that Fox carries Big East games and ESPN does not. Their sports commentators aren't aware of this? Please.

"Redefining the women's game" is the new version of "a generational player." It's total BS that gets overused and has to be retired for a few years until the next phrase gets re-discovered. It's not Caitlin's fault the media is so devoid of ideas, just as it wasn't Paige's when they recycled "generational player." The very fact that Juju is playing at the same time as Caitlin and Paige shows all too clearly how empty these epithets are.

 

[maple]

Not sure about CC being "best player hands down". She has been the beneficiary of relentless media hype ever since Paige went out with an ACL. Paige is much more versatile and IMO a better all-around player. And this stuff on the media of CC "redefining the women's game" is just that: a lot of "media stuff". I would like someone to lay out specifically ust how she has "redefined" the women's game. Give me a break.

Imagine if Stewart had had a personal reporter following her around the entire tournament. You know, she only won 4 titles in a row and all that, beyond all her other personal accomplishments. But, oh, wait, the narrative at that time was that UConn was ruining basketball by being “too good” and it was boring and no one wanted to watch.

 

[DRR25]

Much as I sympathize with this sentiment, the @The deacon in me requires me to disagree with the claim that Caitlin’s defense is suspect. She is a great defender when she is called on to be. Iowa’s defense isn’t structured around her. But I’ve seen her make some great defensive plays.

Then let's just say she isn't "called on" much.

 

[DRR25]

Iowa was not a one player team last year, they were a two player team with Czinano at center. This year Czinano is playing in the WNBA. That being said, getting blown out in the final 102-85 by LSU, didn’t help the Iowa mystique either.

Czinano was drafted but was waived by the Sparks so she's not playing in the W. She's playing in Hungary but still has hopes to make it in the W.

 

[JonathanXIV]

Czinano was drafted but was waived by the Sparks so she's not playing in the W. She's playing in Hungary but still has hopes to make it in the W.

Anyone who has watched Paige during the 5 tournament games understands that she is the best and most impactful player in the game. No one impacts the game in as many ways as Paige. She does everything well and makes the right decision and big play when needed. Appreciate what we are seeing. I don't think God made two.

 

[darkstar1]

Relentless media hype? She’s basically averaging 32 points, 8 rebounds, and 9 assists this year. With 46/38/85 shooting splits. It was hype when she was shooting from deep like sophomore year but she’s lived up to the attention she’s been given her whole college career. You’re telling me that player isn’t hands down player of the year? On a team that’s actually well ranked? No you give me a break.

i don’t think she’s redefining the game, and I don’t know why you would mention that to me, but i see her mass appeal. It looks like NBA basketball. You know…that thing that is the pinnacle of the sport. It’s all efficient play and the analytics game. Midrange and post up is dead and young fans don’t like it. It’s not going to get people into the product. We all know boneyard users aren’t the biggest nba watchers anymore and tend to be demographic wise on the older side. It’s okay if you don’t get Caitlin Clark. I would absolutely take Paige over her, there’s a reason from that high school to college transition period she was the darling of the sport. How she plays isn’t drawing the attention anymore on a UConn team that’s not elevated anymore. She loves the midrange, she’s being forced into the post, she’s been injured. You probably can’t even put together an argument outside of opinion on why CC isn’t hands down POY. We are all homers but sometimes you have to face facts.

I am not a stat person. I think watching both players, it is clear that Oaige is the better player. She excels in every aspect of the game, including defense. If she was more selfish, she would score more points. If she was the point guard, she would get more assists. She is a true team player that only takes over when it is necessary. Despite my dislike of stats being determinative of who is the better player, the analytics alone clearly indicate that Paige is the “better” player. Clarke has all the attention this year and will therefore be the POY. All this being said, they are both great. They will both continue to excel, as long as they have their health

 

[Dynastic]

I feel sorry for Paige that the best she can look forward to is the WNBA.

Oh don’t sell Paige short. She can move to a mining town in an autocracy and increase her bank account. Paige will be like Maya … amaze us in basketball for years (with Nike) and go on to impact the world with her generous giving soul.

 

[Blacketh’D]

Totally disagree that the midrange and post up is dead. We’re talking the women’s game, not the NBA. The reason the UConn team isn’t elevated is because of of injuries. I prefer the women’s game to the NBA, analytics or no anylitics. Yes, the media hype is fueling the CC hysteria. ESPN touts Caitlin Clark, then Iowa vs Holy Cross. You have to look at the media hysteria. That’s a fact.

Some of you will never learn. This is to the people who addressed me and the rest of the boneyard. Paige is every bit as good as Clark. I like her more and always have. POY is like MVP. If you’re having the best individual season you deserve to win. Clark is clearly having a better senior season than Paige. You want to talk about 3pt percentage? Paige ATTEMPTS 5 threes a game on average. Clark MAKES 5 threes a game on average. That’s 15 points a night from just perimeter shooting. Percentage is not the end all be all. 38 percent is still probably better than college average with her attempts in double digits. Volume scoring on good efficiency is important. She has that in spades.

Breanna Stewart…a 6’4 forward in the wnba took 34% of her shots from 3 pt range. More than anywhere closer on the floor. Don’t tell me the women’s game is not the NBA. That’s where the game is trending for them too. Don’t tell me Stewie in college was a primary perimeter shooter. You know she wasn’t. Maybe saying midrange is dead is hyperbolic but long 2’s have been outed as inefficient for a long time. So has post play.

Paige will always be more efficient, but she will always never shoot as much as we would like. It’s comparing Steve Nash to Tracy McGrady. You win with both but do the stars align for either of them. Paige has always been better than Caitlin, but that doesn’t mean she’s always doing the best.