Rule question involving an ex-Husky

[Zinethar]

At the end of last nights Syracuse/Virginia game Syracuse was just holding the ball as the clock expired in about a 10 point win. Mir got right up tight to the Syracuse player (seemed strange as play was over). After the horn went off the Syracuse player sort of pushed her away a little as she tossed the ball away. Here is what happened next - an official called a technical on the Syracuse player for pushing Mir! At that point the coaches had already done their handshake and the teams were off the benches and either filing out or mingling on the floor. The Officials got together sent everyone off the floor and awarded a DIFFERENT player 2 shots - after time had expired and the game was over. I can't even imagine what would have happened if that had changed the outcome! Is this legal according to the rules???

 

[Alydar]

From my view McClean was within her rights to body up to the ball-handler but there were 5 seconds left and they were down 4 possessions. But once the horn sounded NcClean continued to body up. As much as I like McClean it looked to me like she was daring the Syracuse player to do something and the ref assigned the T to the wrong player.

 

[LoboDays]

If this occurred after the buzzer, seems like the refs job is to keep the peace. Not continue a game that has ended with the potential for a team to score points.

I’ve seen coaches go on the court after a game and attack the refs. Actions that would have resulted in a technical foul called if it were during the game. But none are called after the game.

I’m wondering if the incident actually occurred before the buzzer.

 

[Alydar]

So if they can call a foul for something that happened after the game ended are we going to see whistles at the FF because the winners were jumping too high when the horn ended the title game? Should Mulkey have gotten a postgame T for her infantile ranting last year? How long after the game can T's be called? Dee Kantner must be chomping at the bit.

 

[Zinethar]

BTW I noticed that Mir was wearing a knee brace. Just FYI.

 

[sun]

The play was posted on youtube.
The announcer said that he wondered if the points would count after review by the league.

 

[HuskylnSC]

When I reffed, many moons ago, we were in charge until we signed the score book. That's the official end of the game and the end of our responsibility. Never saw or heard of an after the buzzer infraction.

 

[FanFromMaine]

Thanks

 

[LoboDays]

The play was posted on youtube.
The announcer said that he wondered if the points would count after review by the league.

I guess the refs wanted more TV time. Bush league call.

 

[Centerstream]

Mir is the one that initiated contact before the game actually ended, so she should have been charged with a foul too.
And the T was BS.

 

[donalddoowop]

Mir is the one that initiated contact before the game actually ended, so she should have been charged with a foul too.
And the T was BS.

If you have not studied the rules, you should not comment on what happened. Evidently the announcers did not know the rules and should not have made it obvious that they did not know. Why was the "T" BS?

 

[CL82]

Best guess is because it’s a technical foul the Virginia coach got to pick who they would like to shoot.

For what it’s worth I just saw Mir hold her position and not “initiate contact”. The Syracuse player could have walked away instead she pushed Mir. I guess I understand the file. I wouldn’t of called it, but I understand it.

For what it’s worth, Mir was Virginia’s leading score with 20 points and four rebounds.

 

[seeya27]

The ref needed to walk away. While the stare down and close personal space violation was probably uncalled for it was not illegal & the push was ridiculously minor. This was a true case of "no harm, no foul."

 

[CL82]

The ref needed to walk away. While the stare down and close personal space violation was probably uncalled for it was not illegal & the push was ridiculously minor. This was a true case of "no harm, no foul."

Or even just send them back to their benches.

 

[Centerstream]

If you have not studied the rules, you should not comment on what happened. Evidently the announcers did not know the rules and should not have made it obvious that they did not know. Why was the "T" BS?

Because the Syracuse player did nothing that warranted a T. Mir had initiated the confrontation. Her chest bump came first.

In all the UConn games that I have watched, I have never seen a player "guard" an opponent like that when the final 5 seconds are counting down and the team with the ball has more than a 2 possession lead. Hell, Mir wasn't even trying to get the ball.

 

[sun]

I found a thread on a referee forum that mentions instances when T's were called after a game ended.
Post #2 is one of the examples below.

Dead Ball Dunk

---

We had a famous dead ball dunk here in Connecticut about thirty years ago. The facts are a little fuzzy in my mind, but I'll give it a try.

Small college game. Springfield at Southern Connecticut State College. Southern just barely wins. After the buzzer sounds to end the game, a Southern player dunks the ball in celebration. Official calls a technical foul. Springfield makes the foul shot(s), sending the game into overtime, which is finally won by Springfield.

Is there a moral to this story? At the buzzer, make eye contact with the table to make sure that everything is alright, and get out of the gym as soon as possible.

Technical Foul After Time Expires: Ever Happen? - The Official Forum

Can anyone point to a link of an actual game situation (high school or college) where a technical foul was called against the winning team after time

forum.officiating.com

 

[Zinethar]

I got what I hoped for and that was that the refs are in charge until they leave the floor. The whole thing seemed bush league to me given the scenario. Mir didn't need to body up, the Syracuse player didn't need to give a little push to get away, and the ref should have watched to be sure nothing came of it which it didn't so go home and call it a day.

 

[fomalhaut]

Childish behavior by McLean.

 

[LwrcasefaN]

Bizarre. I guess they can call a technical whether I agree or not. She reviews the play and there's no way whatever she saw that deemed a technical occurred before the game clock expired. As far as I know, you can not alter the score of a completed game (time expired) for anything that happened outside of the game itself....EXCEPT, a score keeping error. But, that error would have occurred during the game.

 

[LoboDays]

How many times have we seen some pushing shoving taunting after the game? Happens all the time and the refs seperate the teams and keep things from escalating. If they decided to start calling Ts after the buzzer, we’d be watching a foul shooting contest till they turned off the lights.

 

[JordyG]

Childish behavior by McLean.

Indeed. I thought the refs should have called a double T.

 

[Ricker]

What an interesting topic I haven't ever seen discussed. Are rules on this any different between men's and women's games? As an aside, with states having legal sports betting, the outcome of winning or losing a game may not be in question, but the winning margin might have a large economic implication.

When dunking was illegal in game play or in pregame warmups occasionally a men's game would start with a technical foul shot if a kid dunked in warm ups and it was called. That is a pregame violation that I haven't seen in 40-50 years. When does a ref's authority start before a game under current rules?

What a pandora's box. A technical on the home team could be called when kids instantly rush the floor after a close win, especially where the home team has been warned during the game for having fans throw something onto the floor which happens often. Any end of game words between teams. "A game is never over til it's over" apparently extends beyond the final horn, who knew.

Sometimes refs run off the court for safety and we're saying the game isn't actually over and they can call something until they sign a scorebook later? If that's true it's absurd. A coach gets on an official for a technical called against him during the game, and can pick up another after the horn? Even if they administer the game until a final act with their signature, their authority must be limited?

 

[stamfordhusky]

Bizarre. I guess they can call a technical whether I agree or not. She reviews the play and there's no way whatever she saw that deemed a technical occurred before the game clock expired. As far as I know, you can not alter the score of a completed game (time expired) for anything that happened outside of the game itself....EXCEPT, a score keeping error. But, that error would have occurred during the game.

What you are missing is that it is not a "completed game" at that point, i.e. when time has expired. According to the rules, the game is over "when all officials leave the visual confines of the playing area at the end of the game."

What a pandora's box. A technical on the home team could be called when kids instantly rush the floor after a close win, especially where the home team has been warned during the game for having fans throw something onto the floor which happens often. Any end of game words between teams. "A game is never over til it's over" apparently extends beyond the final horn, who knew.

Sometimes refs run off the court for safety and we're saying the game isn't actually over and they can call something until they sign a scorebook later? If that's true it's absurd. A coach gets on an official for a technical called against him during the game, and can pick up another after the horn? Even if they administer the game until a final act with their signature, their authority must be limited?

They wouldn't call a technical for a crowd storming the court after the buzzer because what is illegal is fans "preventing the ball from being promptly made live or by preventing continuous play." If the clock had expired, the crowd wouldn't be preventing play.

And no, we are not "saying the game isn't actually over and they can call something until they sign a scorebook later". According to the rules, "When all officials leave the visual confines of the playing area at the end of the game, the officials’ jurisdiction has ended and the score has been approved." There is no requirement that they sign the scorebook at any point.

One other point that a few other posts have referenced is when the authority of the officials starts and ends. The NCAA rule says:

. "The officials shall have the power to make decisions for infractions of rules committed either within or outside the boundary lines from 15 minutes before the scheduled starting time of the game through the referee’s approval of the final score."

 

[LwrcasefaN]

What you are missing is that it is not a "completed game" at that point, i.e. when time has expired. According to the rules, the game is over "when all officials leave the visual confines of the playing area at the end of the game."




They wouldn't call a technical for a crowd storming the court after the buzzer because what is illegal is fans "preventing the ball from being promptly made live or by preventing continuous play." If the clock had expired, the crowd wouldn't be preventing play.

And no, we are not "saying the game isn't actually over and they can call something until they sign a scorebook later". According to the rules, "When all officials leave the visual confines of the playing area at the end of the game, the officials’ jurisdiction has ended and the score has been approved." There is no requirement that they sign the scorebook at any point.

One other point that a few other posts have referenced is when the authority of the officials starts and ends. The NCAA rule says:

. "The officials shall have the power to make decisions for infractions of rules committed either within or outside the boundary lines from 15 minutes before the scheduled starting time of the game through the referee’s approval of the final score."

That rule refers to the boundaries of the official's jurisdiction...which isn't the same as saying what they are permissible to do while they have jurisdiction or that those boundaries are synonymous with the start or the end of the game itself. In fact, there's a section called PRE duties...and my interpretation is that they want to say...the GAME has not started. For example, if officials inspect the court and the lines aren't correct they can issue a technical to the home team...even prior to the start of the game. The penalty for that technical (before the game clock started and while officials have jurisdiction) can't be applied until the start of the first quarter, meaning...on the clock and during the game. AND...the penalty involves free-throws because official can't add points to the official score, especially for something that happened before the GAME STARTED...albeit not before their JURISDICTION STARTED. While the officials may have had JURISDICTION (this is mostly to secure official records) when the GAME ended, the problem is there was no more game time to award free throws. I think the NCAA should speak on this. Might seem like a trivial issue, but with past issues with sports and gambling (remember Boston College)...should a single person be able to change the score of a game that had ended?

Here are the latest rules. Some interesting new ones and points of emphasis. Download the FREE version. Don't pay $10!

.NCAA Publications - 2021-22 and 2022-23 NCAA Women's Basketball Rules and Interpretations