RPI: AAC vs. Big East and a look to the future

[npignatjr]

Moving to the Big East, is a real step up for only one team, the men's basketball team, for the women basically parallel (except being seen for recruiting in Texas and Florida) for every other team it is a step back and in some sports a huge reversal. Moving from a conference with mostly large public schools, to one with small private schools, with small venues, long term is not a plus unless except for bball the rest of the teams play a D2 or a 1AA schedule.

 

[BBallF]

There are several intangibles that are extremely positive with the move. First, there are natural, regional and historic rivalries there with Seton Hall, Nova, St. Johns, and Providence. Second, the mens teams are head and shoulders better than the AAC mens teams and have had two NCAA champions in the last 4 years. Just look at the top 25 this year. The league, both for men and women just got stronger, better and more exciting with UCONN joining and the UCONN men will get better quickly. Third, whereas no woman will go to UCONN just to play in the Big East, plenty of women will want to play in the Big East for other teams because they will be playing against UCONN. This is different than the AAC because the Big East is primarily a basketball conference. Fourth, both coaching staffs have great ties to the area. We know about Geno and Philly but CD played in New Jersey for Rutgers and was actually a candidate for the head coaching job there at one time. Danny Hurley was the High School Player of the Year in New Jersey while playing at St. Anthony for his father and his first head coaching job was for St. Benedicts Prep in Newark. Next year, for the men, these rivalries will resume with a ferocity right away and it will create even more fan interest in and attention to the League. The women will follow suit, it is just unclear how long it will take the league to have a steep rise in the talent level but you can bet there are assistant coaches out there right now talking about why you want to play in the Big East because you will be playing against UCONN. I was at the Seton Hall game this year. It was at the campus facility, known as Walsh, but it was rocking and appeared to be very well attended judging by the 20 minutes it took for me to get out of the parking garage. I have season tickets to the Seton Hall women ( so I could see UCONN) and I have never seen that before. There are also benefits such as increased media attention and less long travel. The AAC was never a good fit. All in all, I think it is a Home Run and can't wait.

 

[meyers7]

Like everyone else I would have loved to see Uconn get an invitation to a Power 5 but it's not even in the mix for now. But we have not been in one for the past thirty years and it does not appear to have hurt either our recruiting or our scheduling. Given what we have coming in for the next few years and the quality of the teams we play not only in but out of conference I think we will remain viable for top billing.

Yea, I'm thinking UCONN WBB will be fine (at least as long as Geno is around). But quite a few people on here are like, "I can't wait to get out of the AAC, the BE is gonna be soooooo much better." And I'm like-

 

[meyers7]

View attachment 51216

Reminds me, I gotta get a new suit for an upcoming wedding (not mine).

 

[meyers7]

I'm sorry but the other conferences are no filet and lobster. The Ole Misses and Pitts and Floridas and Kansases and Texas Techs and Vandys and Clemsons and Utahs and Washington States and Wake Forests ... those teams make up the bulk of the schedule in most p5 conferences. The Big 12 after Baylor is thoroughly mediocre.

Not talking about the teams, talking about the $$$$$.

And yet the B12 still, usually, puts twice the number of teams in the NCAA's as AAC or BE.

 

[npignatjr]

There are several intangibles that are extremely positive with the move. First, there are natural, regional and historic rivalries there with Seton Hall, Nova, St. Johns, and Providence. Second, the mens teams are head and shoulders better than the AAC mens teams and have had two NCAA champions in the last 4 years. Just look at the top 25 this year. The league, both for men and women just got stronger, better and more exciting with UCONN joining and the UCONN men will get better quickly. Third, whereas no woman will go to UCONN just to play in the Big East, plenty of women will want to play in the Big East for other teams because they will be playing against UCONN. This is different than the AAC because the Big East is primarily a basketball conference. Fourth, both coaching staffs have great ties to the area. We know about Geno and Philly but CD played in New Jersey for Rutgers and was actually a candidate for the head coaching job there at one time. Danny Hurley was the High School Player of the Year in New Jersey while playing at St. Anthony for his father and his first head coaching job was for St. Benedicts Prep in Newark. Next year, for the men, these rivalries will resume with a ferocity right away and it will create even more fan interest in and attention to the League. The women will follow suit, it is just unclear how long it will take the league to have a steep rise in the talent level but you can bet there are assistant coaches out there right now talking about why you want to play in the Big East because you will be playing against UCONN. I was at the Seton Hall game this year. It was at the campus facility, known as Walsh, but it was rocking and appeared to be very well attended judging by the 20 minutes it took for me to get out of the parking garage. I have season tickets to the Seton Hall women ( so I could see UCONN) and I Phillyhave never seen that before. There are also benefits such as increased media attention and less long travel. The AAC was never a good fit. All in all, I think it is a Home Run and can't wait.

The 4 teams you mentioned are bad and play in old small venues. Temple in the AAC is in Philly, Big East now has schools in Fort Wayne and Omaha. Would not travel to Florida, Louisiana, North Carolina and Texas to play and showcase your team be better? What conference in the long term do you see being able to trend up for the whole athletic department?

 

[DefenseBB]

The point of the thread was to examine the finite states of the current Women’s AAC and the Women’s Big East especially when considering our RPI and potential for a better RPI to protect our interests against the national landscape.
So sorry @meyers7 but YES, the BE is much better than the AAC. There are really only 2 dregs in this conference vs.7 in the AAC. By having more local teams, attendance will improve for all teams unlike the AAC where our departure will hurt them mightily. I have posted on this earlier this year.
As @Nick Pignatello noted, I do think the rest of the BE schools benefit more with UConn women in it as television and focus of being a “Basketball 1st” Conference helps promote it better than what the WCBB AAC teams could ever do.
Let’s live in the present and not dwell on the past of other sports and regrets over dollars-that’s not helpful nor productive. The die is cast, let’s look at what we think the future could hold given the current teams, coaches, schedules, results and trends. If anyone really thinks the Big East is not a significant improvement, show me the analytics why.

 

[meyers7]

So sorry @meyers7 but YES, the BE is much better than the AAC.

mmmmm, no. Sorry. Not even just for WBB. A little better, sure. We'll we even notice? Probably not much. Well except for travel (mileage) and such. But even the travel while better for less mileage and less missed school, sucks. Instead of some nice trips to FL or New Orleans or Dallas in the middle of January, woohoo now they can go to IL and NE and WI. Do get out of going to Tulsa though. That's good.

Will we win the league every year?, most likely. Will we win the tourney every year?, most likely. Will we go undefeated in conference every year?, most likely. Will our SOS/RPI go up? Maybe, our conference RPI will go up but we lose OOC games, so it will be harder to get a really good SOS. Probably even out, so we'll be about where we were. Maybe a little better.

Will it be better overall? Some. Will it be this magical elixir ya'll are selling? NOPE. Like I said, warm gruel instead of cold gruel. But that's about it.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

mmmmm, no. Sorry. Not even just for WBB. A little better, sure. We'll we even notice? Probably not much. Well except for travel (mileage) and such. But even the travel while better for less mileage and less missed school, sucks. Instead of some nice trips to FL or New Orleans or Dallas in the middle of January, woohoo now they can go to IL and NE and WI. Do get out of going to Tulsa though. That's good.

Will we win the league every year?, most likely. Will we win the tourney every year?, most likely. Will we go undefeated in conference every year?, most likely. Will our SOS/RPI go up? Maybe, our conference RPI will go up but we lose OOC games, so it will be harder to get a really good SOS. Probably even out, so we'll be about where we were. Maybe a little better.

Will it be better overall? Some. Will it be this magical elixir ya'll are selling? NOPE. Like I said, warm gruel instead of cold gruel. But that's about it.

As an outside observer, I have to say I 100% agree with you. OTH, I will admit the poster talking about men's basketball is probably correct, although I con't watch that carefully. The thing is, teams are "names" on the men's side. Most of the women's teams were "names" in the '80's, if then. And then came UConn's success and, there went, for the most part, Providence, Villanova, Seton Hall, Georgetown and St. John's success.

I'll also add - facilities, facilities, facilities. Rutgers actually has a really decent recruiting class scheduled to come in to a program that - at least significantly - isn't what it once was. Due to facilities, in this case, practice ones. The fact that money is not all that plentiful at these schools caps what gets devoted to women in the BE. The teams mentioned, as was said earlier, don't play in very good arenas. The men do - for at least some / most of their games. So I don't expect these arenas to see many upgrades.

For those UConn fans who, for whatever reason, haven't done it - go to Walsh Gym or MacDonnough Hall if you get chance. They are truly relics of a different age.

 

[Plebe]

Not talking about the teams, talking about the $$$$$.

Oh, the money. Yeah, the money is a problem.

And yet the B12 still, usually, puts twice the number of teams in the NCAA's as AAC or BE.

Not anymore. Last year, 3 teams each from B12 and BE. This year, only 2 B12 teams are locks.

 

[mbr33ct]

mmmmm, no. Sorry. Not even just for WBB. A little better, sure. We'll we even notice? Probably not much. Well except for travel (mileage) and such. But even the travel while better for less mileage and less missed school, sucks. Instead of some nice trips to FL or New Orleans or Dallas in the middle of January, woohoo now they can go to IL and NE and WI. Do get out of going to Tulsa though. That's good.

Will we win the league every year?, most likely. Will we win the tourney every year?, most likely. Will we go undefeated in conference every year?, most likely. Will our SOS/RPI go up? Maybe, our conference RPI will go up but we lose OOC games, so it will be harder to get a really good SOS. Probably even out, so we'll be about where we were. Maybe a little better.

Will it be better overall? Some. Will it be this magical elixir ya'll are selling? NOPE. Like I said, warm gruel instead of cold gruel. But that's about it.

Just you wait until the new Big East overtakes one or two of the so called P5 conferences in the RPI ranking. Looking forward to eating at the Golden Corral Buffet...is gruel served there?

 

[meyers7]

Not anymore. Last year, 3 teams each from B12 and BE. This year, only 2 B12 teams are locks.

Not the NCAA I saw. Last year being 2019.

Big 12 had Baylor (1), Iowa St (3), Texas (7), and Kansas St (9)

Big East had Marquette (5) and DePaul (6)

2018 was 4/4
2017 was 6/3
2016 was 6/3
2015 was 5/2
2014 was 6/2

So usually, they are twice as much (or more).

And this year Creme (granted it's Creme, but still) has
B12 with Baylor, Iowa St. Texas, TCU
BE with DePaul, Marquette and Creighton

And the B12 is the worst of the P5s.

 

[meyers7]

Just you wait until the new Big East overtakes one or two of the so called P5 conferences in the RPI ranking. Looking forward to eating at the Golden Corral Buffet...is gruel served there?

Doubt I'll live that long.

But having tried Golden Corral (once), yes.

 

[Plebe]

Not the NCAA I saw. Last year being 2019.

Big 12 had Baylor (1), Iowa St (3), Texas (7), and Kansas St (9)

Big East had Marquette (5) and DePaul (6)

2018 was 4/4
2017 was 6/3
2016 was 6/3
2015 was 5/2
2014 was 6/2

So usually, they are twice as much (or more).

And this year Creme (granted it's Creme, but still) has
B12 with Baylor, Iowa St. Texas, TCU
BE with DePaul, Marquette and Creighton

And the B12 is the worst of the P5s.

Ha ya got me. I got my Creighton years mixed up and I forgot about K-State (how could I). And hey, adding UConn to the BE will really disturb that 2/1 ratio

But you've given me a head start in showing that the BE is a clear step up from the AAC:

In the last four NCAATs, the BE has had:
2019: 2
2018: 4
2017: 3
2016: 3
Average: 3.0 per year.

In the same span, the AAC minus UConn has had:
2019: 1
2018: 1
2017: 2
2016: 1
Average: 1.25 per year.

 

[Kevinmac]

The point of the thread was to examine the finite states of the current Women’s AAC and the Women’s Big East especially when considering our RPI and potential for a better RPI to protect our interests against the national landscape.
So sorry @meyers7 but YES, the BE is much better than the AAC. There are really only 2 dregs in this conference vs.7 in the AAC. By having more local teams, attendance will improve for all teams unlike the AAC where our departure will hurt them mightily. I have posted on this earlier this year.
As @Nick Pignatello noted, I do think the rest of the BE schools benefit more with UConn women in it as television and focus of being a “Basketball 1st” Conference helps promote it better than what the WCBB AAC teams could ever do.
Let’s live in the present and not dwell on the past of other sports and regrets over dollars-that’s not helpful nor productive. The die is cast, let’s look at what we think the future could hold given the current teams, coaches, schedules, results and trends. If anyone really thinks the Big East is not a significant improvement, show me the analytics why.

Agree you are right. Fox replaces ESPN with 1/3 less stations and we have ton play 20 conference games instead of 16. Few big games for season ticket holders. Done men not women.

 

[meyers7]

But you've given me a head start in showing that the BE is a clear step up from the AAC:

A step up, sure. But nothing to get overly excited about like some people on here seem to be doing.

 

[BBallF]

The 4 teams you mentioned are bad and play in old small venues. Temple in the AAC is in Philly, Big East now has schools in Fort Wayne and Omaha. Would not travel to Florida, Louisiana, North Carolina and Texas to play and showcase your team be better? What conference in the long term do you see being able to trend up for the whole athletic department?

The Big East is solid for the whole athletic department except football or this would not have happened. All of those 4 teams have alternative venues where the mens' teams play their Big East games. I can see UCONN playing in those venues if the other teams upgrade. I don't think that playing at East Carolina, SMU, UCF/USF and Tulane helped our program at all. I think it cost significant travel dollars. It was a very weak conference with no real improvement over the years and did not prepare us well for the FF. That is why Geno had such a tough non-conference schedule. If you want a recruiting type schedule, Geno can still fill some non- conference games. I understand your skepticism and the new conference is years away from being strong but I think the excitement of the Big East mens will help the Big East women now that there is a marquee team in it.

 

[npignatjr]

The Big East is solid for the whole athletic department except football or this would not have happened. All of those 4 teams have alternative venues where the mens' teams play their Big East games. I can see UCONN playing in those venues if the other teams upgrade. I don't think that playing at East Carolina, SMU, UCF/USF and Tulane helped our program at all. I think it cost significant travel dollars. It was a very weak conference with no real improvement over the years and did not prepare us well for the FF. That is why Geno had such a tough non-conference schedule. If you want a recruiting type schedule, Geno can still fill some non- conference games. I understand your skepticism and the new conference is years away from being strong but I think the excitement of the Big East mens will help the Big East women now that there is a marquee team in it.

When the Big East was last relevant with WCBB, where were the UCONN games being played in South Orange, Providence, Queens? And except football, if UConn wants to play with or just pretend to be a major University football is key. So compare recruiting that you will be playing in Orlando, Tampa, Dallas, Houston, New Orleans or Queens, South Orange, Fort Wayne, Omaha in the winter. Always played a tough out of conference, nothing new. Also there are probably more fans that have moved out of CT in Florida or Texas or NC, than in RI or NJ or IL.