Rough Physical Play

[Carnac]

The issue is many Women's sites accepted the rough play. Yes they are only FAN's but FAN have driven the Mens game to what it is. The shot clock loved by many is still a thorn in my side. The GAME as designed by the Springfield Canadian--was NON-Contact--the game has drifted very far from the concept. Yes the ball is more lively, the kids more talented, but basketball isn't football or soccer or wrestling (Ok at times you can't tell the difference

Agreed that the game was not designed this way by the inventor. The game has however evolved. It has evolved into what it is today. The female players are bigger, stronger, and faster than they were back when I started watching WCBB in the early 80s.

Change with it or it will pass you by. There are some phenomenal highly skilled female athletes on the scene today. Not only in basketball but in other sports as well. Track and field, swimming, soccer, and softball for example.

 

[cancontent]

Well for starters we need 1 or possibly 2 additional refs whose primary responsibility would be to prowl up and down the sideline watching for fouls that impede movement. The harsh reality is that it’s easier to teach players to do subtle bumps or momentarily grabbing a player just enough to prevent them from getting around a defender. A few weeks ago I posted the idea that one rule change needed is that any defender reaching into the “personal space” (defined as the within the diameter of the ball) of the player with the ball is an automatic foul. The job of officials is difficult enough but expecting officials to detect whether a player’s arms were slapped or just the ball from a distance of 20’ is nearly impossible. If a player is holding the ball out away from their body the officials at least have a chance to tell the difference but when the ball is held close to the body it’s just too much to expect officials to see whether the player was hacked. I think its gotten to the point where officials just let the slapping and hacking go unless it beyond obvious.

This sounds like the cylinder rule that's used in NCAA and FIBA. Is there something I'm missing with respect to what you're suggesting?

"Rule 4, Section 39, Article 1c. The space that a player may legally occupy is defined by an imaginary cylinder surrounding the player and which extends from the floor to as far above the player as he can jump or extend his arms and body."

 

[Zarathustra]

Agreed that the game was not designed this way by the inventor. The game has however evolved. It has evolved into what it is today. The female players are bigger, stronger, and faster than they were back when I started watching WCBB in the early 80s.

Change with it or it will pass you by. There are some phenomenal highly skilled female athletes on the scene today. Not only in basketball but in other sports as well. Track and field, swimming, soccer, and softball for example.

In basketball, to my eye, there seems to be too many ACL tears, and concussions, and (imo) unsportsmanlike
demeanor in today's game. Sure, there are " highly skilled female athletes", " bigger, stronger, and faster"
bu, it could end up looking something like the NFL = broken bodies and brain injury in the future. " WHAT
PRICE GLORY? " (from some old movie).

 

[cancontent]

In basketball, to my eye, there seems to be too many ACL tears, and concussions, and (imo) unsportsmanlike
demeanor in today's game. Sure, there are " highly skilled female athletes", " bigger, stronger, and faster"
bu, it could end up looking something like the NFL = broken bodies and brain injury in the future. " WHAT
PRICE GLORY? " (from some old movie).

The ACL issue is a large issue for female athletes in all sports, not just basketball. The style of play may have some impact, but it's not the key reason in my opinion. An ACL can tear without direct impact from another player. Seen it in basketball, soccer, volleyball, etc., too many times that I care to count.

 

[Huskiefan78]

Think about it for a moment.........when was the last time you saw a referee call an "intentional" foul in WCBB? They call FLAGRANT fouls, but not intentional fouls.

WCBB does not call flagrant fouls. They have not since 2017. They call 'Unsportsmanlike Fouls' and 'Disqualifying Fouls'. An 'Unsportsmanlike' carries the exact same consequences as the old 'intentional' foul, even covering deadball contact.

Personally, I enjoy the physical play. It allows for contrasting styles and games. Some teams try to win via finesse, shooting 3s, moving the ball, and out-executing opponents. Others try to win via athleticism, speed, and strength. Adopting a 'muck it up' mantra and impossing their will on the opponent. To me its what makes sports great, there are so many different ways to attempt to achieve the same end goal.

 

[BobbyJ]

The ACL issue is a large issue for female athletes in all sports, not just basketball. The style of play may have some impact, but it's not the key reason in my opinion. An ACL can tear without direct impact from another player. Seen it in basketball, soccer, volleyball, etc., too many times that I care to count.

You are correct. 70% of ACL injuries are non-contact. The only style of play that would reduce the number of these injuries would involve no running and no jumping.

https://www.nata.org/sites/default/files/anterior_cruciate_ligament_acl_injury_prevention.pdf

 

[cancontent]

You are correct. 70% of ACL injuries are non-contact. The only style of play that would reduce the number of these injuries would involve no running and no jumping.

https://www.nata.org/sites/default/files/anterior_cruciate_ligament_acl_injury_prevention.pdf

Not exactly. Some issues can be genetic due to a person's build, however there are ways to help minimize/reduce the potential of them from occuring.

Movement and form is one I've learned through coaching. Another is reducing the amount of time spent playing and training. My personal favourite, if one can afford to, is expanding the number of sports an athlete participates in. Specialization in one sport increases the potential because of the wear and tear. Participating in different sports helps here because different muscles get used helping to balance things out.

 

[JellyBean]

Not exactly. Some issues can be genetic due to a person's build, however there are ways to help minimize/reduce the potential of them from occuring.

Movement and form is one I've learned through coaching. Another is reducing the amount of time spent playing and training. My personal favourite, if one can afford to, is expanding the number of sports an athlete participates in. Specialization in one sport increases the potential because of the wear and tear. Participating in different sports helps here because different muscles get used helping to balance things out.

Great point. With me coaching girls basketball, I have been pretty vocal about reducing the amount of time being spent on training and playing basketball with my girls once the season ends and over the summer.

 

[BobbyJ]

Not exactly. Some issues can be genetic due to a person's build, however there are ways to help minimize/reduce the potential of them from occuring.

Movement and form is one I've learned through coaching. Another is reducing the amount of time spent playing and training. My personal favourite, if one can afford to, is expanding the number of sports an athlete participates in. Specialization in one sport increases the potential because of the wear and tear. Participating in different sports helps here because different muscles get used helping to balance things out.

I agree with your points regarding training, prevention etc. My point was that "style of play" has no real impact on the number of injuries. That hasn't changed in forever and isn't going to. I've had several players over the years, including my daughter, incur this injury and am very familiar with the causes, rehab, and comeback from them.

 

[Pharos]

Agreed that the game was not designed this way by the inventor. The game has however evolved. It has evolved into what it is today. The female players are bigger, stronger, and faster than they were back when I started watching WCBB in the early 80s.

Change with it or it will pass you by. There are some phenomenal highly skilled female athletes on the scene today. Not only in basketball but in other sports as well. Track and field, swimming, soccer, and softball for example.

Good advice... though... let's remember to be aware of the "time chauvinism" that says "now" is always better than "then". Nostalgia isn't always wrong.

 

[cancontent]

I agree with your points regarding training, prevention etc. My point was that "style of play" has no real impact on the number of injuries. That hasn't changed in forever and isn't going to. I've had several players over the years, including my daughter, incur this injury and am very familiar with the causes, rehab, and comeback from them.

True, but I find that the ACL topic for women doesn't get talked about from a physiological perspective enough. It's easy to say the best way to prevent is to stop running and jumping, but expanding on what can be done is important.

Talking about ways that help to prevent / minimize the potential not only helps athletes when they're younger, it also helps them in the long run. It can also help anyone who comes across the thread for their own personal well being. Good friend tore hers due to getting caught up in her dog's leash. After she completed her physiotherapy she was blown away with what I pointed out that could help her going forward.

I recall a thread on this board where people were talking about the number of ACLs and were unaware of the many reasons as to why. Continuing to put out the reasons in the hopes it gets absorbed by one more person helps in the long run in my opinion.

 

[BobbyJ]

True, but I find that the ACL topic for women doesn't get talked about from a physiological perspective enough. It's easy to say the best way to prevent is to stop running and jumping, but expanding on what can be done is important.

Talking about ways that help to prevent / minimize the potential not only helps athletes when they're younger, it also helps them in the long run. It can also help anyone who comes across the thread for their own personal well being. Good friend tore hers due to getting caught up in her dog's leash. After she completed her physiotherapy she was blown away with what I pointed out that could help her going forward.

I recall a thread on this board where people were talking about the number of ACLs and were unaware of the many reasons as to why. Continuing to put out the reasons in the hopes it gets absorbed by one more person helps in the long run in my opinion.

You knew I was joking on this right? That's what I mean about style of play not changing.

 

[cancontent]

You knew I was joking on this right? That's what I mean about style of play not changing.

Yes and no. I'm the type to be very literal when reading. Still, my point is putting the info out there to help educate whenever possible.

 

[toadfoot]

This sounds like the cylinder rule that's used in NCAA and FIBA. Is there something I'm missing with respect to what you're suggesting?

"Rule 4, Section 39, Article 1c. The space that a player may legally occupy is defined by an imaginary cylinder surrounding the player and which extends from the floor to as far above the player as he can jump or extend his arms and body."

Not familiar with the rule. What you quoted doesn’t include any mention of a foul for “invading” the cylinder of another player, especially the player with the ball, but if so 99% of NCAA officials are also unaware of the rule. If this is supposed to be a foul then OSU should have been whistled for an additional 30-40 fouls in the win over UConn. Of course, the whole point is that if a team was being called for a foul every time their opponent brought the ball up the court they’d stop fouling. And just maybe coaches would need to teach players to defend with the feet not their hands.

 

[cancontent]

Not familiar with the rule. What you quoted doesn’t include any mention of a foul for “invading” the cylinder of another player, especially the player with the ball, but if so 99% of NCAA officials are also unaware of the rule. If this is supposed to be a foul then OSU should have been whistled for an additional 30-40 fouls in the win over UConn. Of course, the whole point is that if a team was being called for a foul every time their opponent brought the ball up the court they’d stop fouling. And just maybe coaches would need to teach players to defend with the feet not their hands.

The rule helps to establish the space an offensive player has that the defender can't encroach on, to an extent. Similar to a strike zone, if that helps. And like the strike zone, it's open to interpretation depending on the referee which can frustrate fans.

I somewhat disagree with defending with feet over hands statement. Maybe it's how I'm interpreting it however a combination of both is always required from what I've learned in coaching. Challenging shots requires some use of your hands to affect vision, disrupt the offensive player's rhythm and passing lanes. If you meant using your feet more instead of reaching, I'm with you 100%.

 

[toadfoot]

The rule helps to establish the space an offensive player has that the defender can't encroach on, to an extent. Similar to a strike zone, if that helps. And like the strike zone, it's open to interpretation depending on the referee which can frustrate fans.

I somewhat disagree with defending with feet over hands statement. Maybe it's how I'm interpreting it however a combination of both is always required from what I've learned in coaching. Challenging shots requires some use of your hands to affect vision, disrupt the offensive player's rhythm and passing lanes. If you meant using your feet more instead of reaching, I'm with you 100%.

“If you meant using your feet more instead of reaching, I'm with you 100%.“

A bit of hyperbole on my part to make a point.