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Rookie Wage Scale in NFL CBA changing the game

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Gil_Brandt12:26pm via Web
As of Sunday, underclassmen declaring for draft was 83. 19 WRs, by far most at any position. 45 offense, 29 defense. Deadline Wed.

Up @ least 3 since UA RB Carey, Stanford OL Yankey and LSU RS So RB Hill declared today.
 
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Let me put it this way. We have our walk-ons. It's pretty impressive in a wide scope that they even made it on to a D1 team at all, but when you're looking at helping the team win, they're not exactly irreplaceable. There will be some diamonds over time for sure, but the vast majority are just not good enough to make a difference at this level and if you had to give them significant playing time, that would not be a good sign. That is about how I see these end of the roster/practice squad/FA type guys. Sure, it's impressive overall that they made the NFL, but when you're looking at them in comparison to their peers, they're just not all that valuable to the team. If they lose a step, get more expensive, or their play tails off at all, they're dropped like a hot coal.

As far as the comp to the NBA, you're not understanding me. My point is that there aren't any more legitimate NBA players available in the draft just because a lot of them come out early because the guys who would potentially be the really good upperclassmen in the draft are already gone. Take Manziel in the NFL for example. He may add another top prospect this year, but the fact that he won't be there as an upperclassman takes it away from that class. There theoretically shouldn't be any more NFL prospects, they're just coming out earlier.

i got an understanding of what you're saying but I don't agree. Because what you're really talking about is based on the concept of a sliding salary based scale, or a sliding scale of anything of value and that's not applicable. Philip Rivers is an "irreplaceable" part of the San Diego Chargers football team, but they couldn't stop Denver yesterday on 3rd and 17 late in the fourth quarter because they had a couple of those lower end players in the defensive secondary - but which one was more important to the win? Philosophical differences I suppose. I think every player on every play doing their required job, is what's important to winning. I'm a communist that way. But the wage scales aren't the same, and they won't ever be - so we get these kinds of problems in the NFL regarding wage scales. It's actually a big part of why I like the college game so much more. Anyhoo.

I understand the numbers argument, but I again disagree. How many exhibition games for seniors are managed by NFL people are there each year now? Increasing the numbers of underclassmen eligible for the draft is NOT balanced out by those same players not being available as upperclassmen and/or seniors. Football is a unique sport in this regard as well. This is not a sport where an athlete needs to be trained for years since childhood to excel. So we'll have to disagree on that as well. There is a fixed number of roster spots in the NFL,a dn the competition for those spots is fierce, and getting more so.

I'll put it this way - maybe this will make more sense as to what my point is. In the past, once a player made it in, they usually had a good chance of staying around for awhile and circulating. THe competition for entry into the league was intense, but once a player signed and made a game day roster, they usually had an easier time of bouncing around, and finding different roster spots as long as they were healthy and in shape. The competition to get into the league was fierce, but once you were in, things were pretty good as long as you stayed healthy. The league took care of it's own that way. That has changed, and changed quickly.

The way things have changed, the competition for a roster spots, aside from the very few "franchise" type players in the league, is going to be essentially the same for all players, we'll see less and less multiple year deals, and veteran and rookie alike will be competiting for roster spots- and given the choice, of signing two players of similar qualities, one to a fourth year contract at a big price, a franchise is more likely to go with a first, second or third year player at lower cost.

The league is killing itself with the NFL draft and the ownership greed and inability to solve the problem of escalating contracts for the top picks over the past 2 decades. THe current CBA and rookie scale is a disaster for the league long term. I predict that by 2020, there no longer is an NFL draft, but there will be a signing period or something, yearly signing day, much like college football and the NLI.
 
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Jax Husky

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Gil_Brandt12:26pm via Web
As of Sunday, underclassmen declaring for draft was 83. 19 WRs, by far most at any position. 45 offense, 29 defense. Deadline Wed.

Up @ least 3 since UA RB Carey, Stanford OL Yankey and LSU RS So RB Hill declared today.


LSU also has an OG that declared today. RS sophomore (not even a Junior yet). He has a 4th round grade. Just wants to get started and avoid injury. It really sucks. Lost 2 guys that played only 2 seasons. Both guys will definitely make rosters and get paid. Neither would improve their stock a ton by coming back.
 

Husky25

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I disagree Carl. Otherwise what prevents the best individual rookie WRs from trying to recruit themselves on to the Patriots, Saints, or Broncos? The draft is essential for at least 7 rounds. Besides, the NFL make a crap ton of money on the draft and related events. It's not going anywhere. Plus the CBA doesn't expire until at least 2021.

NFL Contracts are not guaranteed and teams must adhere to both salary cap and salary floor regulations. Also, given adequate performance, many players are now subject to contract restrictions into fourth and potentially fifth years. As a result and all things being equal, the 3rd year player has just as much chance of being cut as the 5th year player. It seems to me that a player has to be cut in order to take advantage of their second contract.

The real issue is the number of underclassman declaring early. While those that go undrafted can sign UDFA deals, many believe they have to leave early to because they can't prove anything in college and if they get hurt, they might as well make money at it. This of course is short-term thinking because unless an athlete is truly elite as a RS Sophomore or Junior, they run the risk of washing out and never hitting that pay day. As I said last week however, this is a decision that much be made by himself and support circle. If he allows himself to be influenced by shady individuals and ne'er do wells, that really can't be put on the NFL. The kids go through their pro day and some get invited to the combine. He is choosing to grow up faster than "society intended." There are now consequences for his actions.
 
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Husky25

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College football shares some of the same rules are pro football, but the size and speed of the players makes it an entirely different game.

2 years ago, the question was asked, as it is most years, if Alabama (I think they were undefeated at the time) had a shot at beating the worst of the NFL teams. Some talking heads said yes, some said no. Some said no, but it'd be a close game.

The answer is an emphatic and absolute no way and it wouldn't be remotely close.

Why? There was probably 20 players on Alabama that year who could/would play in the NFL. That is 20 players out of 85 scholarship players or 23.5%. Out of 53 game day roster spots, how many NFL caliber players were on the Chiefs (for example) in 2011? The answer is 53. In other words, 100%.

The goal of the NFL is parity. College programs have to play different styles to try and find ways to close the gap between the Vanderbilts and Alabama's of the world.
 
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I disagree Carl. Otherwise what prevents the best individual rookie WRs from trying to recruit themselves on to the Patriots, Saints, or Broncos? The draft is essential for at least 7 rounds. Besides, the NFL make a crap ton of money on the draft and related events. It's not going anywhere. Plus the CBA doesn't expire until at least 2021.

NFL Contracts are not guaranteed and Players must adhere to both salary cap and salary floor regulations. Also, given adequate performance, many players are now subject to contract restrictions into fourth and potentially fifth years. As a result and all things being equal, the 3rd year player has just as much chance of being cut as the 5th year player. It seems to me that a player has to be cut in order to take advantage of their second contract.

The real issue is the number of underclassman declaring early. While those that go undrafted can sign UDFA deals, many believe they have to leave early to because they can't prove anything in college and if they get hurt, they might as well make money at it. This of course is short-term thinking because unless an athlete is truly elite as a RS Sophomore or Junior, they run the risk of washing out and never hitting that pay day. As I said last week however, this is a decision that much be made by himself and support circle. If he allows himself to be influenced by shady individuals and ne'er do wells, that really can't be put on the NFL. The kids go through their pro day and some get invited to the combine. He is choosing to grow up faster than "society intended." There are now consequences for his actions.

Good points. I've been saying that I'm concerned where all the advice is coming from. It's just interesting discussion stuff for me. Better than the other stuff going on around here now. The real solution to all this stuff, is to do one of three things: Either remove the salary cap, or remove the roster limits, or remove both.

Those two things exist for one reason only - to maximize ownership profit margins. It's done under the disguise of maintaining a competitive league. Kind of like how the chosen 5 conferences in college football are working to keep as much TV money as possible, under the disguise of a review governance structure around issues of student athletes.
 
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Good points. I've been saying that I'm concerned where all the advice is coming from. It's just interesting discussion stuff for me. Better than the other stuff going on around here now. The real solution to all this stuff, is to do one of three things: Either remove the salary cap, or remove the roster limits, or remove both.

Those two things exist for one reason only - to maximize ownership profit margins. It's done under the disguise of maintaining a competitive league. Kind of like how the chosen 5 conferences in college football are working to keep as much TV money as possible, under the disguise of a review governance structure around issues of student athletes.

Come on, that's not the only reason for the roster limit. It's very much so that a team can't just stock-pile projects who never see the field. It gives them a chance to try to latch on elsewhere. Regardless though, we both know how much power the owners hold at the table in the NFL (polar opposite of MLB), so these things are not going to happen for the foreseeable future. And I'm not sure where your doomsday thinking is going. Do you really think the NFL is going to tank because more underclassmen are declaring?
 
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Come on, that's not the only reason for the roster limit. It's very much so that a team can't just stock-pile projects who never see the field. It gives them a chance to try to latch on elsewhere. Regardless though, we both know how much power the owners hold at the table in the NFL (polar opposite of MLB), so these things are not going to happen for the foreseeable future. And I'm not sure where your doomsday thinking is going. Do you really think the NFL is going to tank because more underclassmen are declaring?

Technically, the 53 man active roster limit, and the salary cap were both created for the same purpose and are redundant, but the NFL ownership liked what they created. I think it would be a good idea to keep the salary cap and lift roster limits. I think it would be beneficial for the league in many ways. But whatever. Yeah, it's coming across like doomsday prophecy, but that wasn't my intention, I was just making some discussion. There is definitely a trend developing in how the draft is functioning after the rookie wage scale was changed. What the long term and short term effects of change will be is what I was bringing up.

I do think that the league is walking a fine line between seriously diluting it's talent pool and by extension it's competitive level of play.

That probably seems immediately contrary to what I was writing before, but you are correct in the that there are definitely different strata/levels of players in the league. There is a huge difference between experienced, mid 20-late20s veteran playes and early 20s rookies and 1st 2nd year players though, and that's what I'm talking about here now. I think that, because football is game, that players can pick up at any time really, but to play at the most elite level, takes a ton of experience and game time reps, and I think that the league is going to have a lot of players that are on the low end of experience in the future.

One of the most important things, I think, that goes into evaluating the quality of a player, is the volume and simple number of successful, winning plays - game time reps - that they have. The more consistent a player is during game time play, the more reliable your predictions get. It's a catch 22 though, because coaches just don't hand out game time reps and plays to anyone - you got to earn your way there, which is why the college game is so important to the health of the NFL.

As whaler noted, the draft, handcuffs franchises to players that they have invested in, and underclassmen, most of them, are lacking in an adequate volume of game time reps to get really good evaluations.

Good talk though. THanks.
 
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