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OkaForPrez

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If they have money for this then why not money for a new xl center?

Bingo. Although the XL reno at 35 million was more than half the full cost of the new build here. But you have to think that if the cash is there for this park that its also there for a new basketball arena.
 
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I was just in Minneapolis, and i know we are talking apples and oranges but their visiting hotel traffic (conventions) is what drives the outside activity, like the restaurants and bars etc. Is this close to that area?
 

OkaForPrez

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I was just in Minneapolis, and i know we are talking apples and oranges but their visiting hotel traffic (conventions) is what drives the outside activity, like the restaurants and bars etc. Is this close to that area?

Not really. This is in the area mirror to the XL center on the opposite side of the 84 divide. Convention center is down on the river to the south.
 
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Not really. This is in the area mirror to the XL center on the opposite side of the 84 divide. Convention center is down on the river to the south.
But distance wise it's not very far (all of downtown is within basically a square mile). Google says its .7 miles or a 12 min walk between the stadium location and the convention center.
 

Husky25

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Bingo. Although the XL reno at 35 million was more than half the full cost of the new build here. But you have to think that if the cash is there for this park that its also there for a new basketball arena.
Anything that Replaces the XL Center is not just going to be a basketball arena. It will also have to be equipped for hockey. Those buildings start at $350 Million nowadays.
 
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We're getting into a Cesspool worthy discussion (economics and civic leader criticism), but IMO, revenue generation begins and ends with customer and the demand thereof. In terms of a municipality, that means land owners and residents. Hartford is a city of parking lots. Sure, some are needed and LAZ may pay property tax, but what happens at 5:00 virtually every day? The people who still work in Hartford get in their cars and go back out to West Hartford, Manchester, Avon, Farmington, New Britain etc. etc. etc. No people, no businesses. No businesses, no added consumer revenue, either taxable or direct (transfer station fees, parks and rec. fees, pet licenses, etc.).

I think Hartford is doing an admirable job trying to introduce more residential apartment space (see 777 Main Street aka the old BOA building), but what it really needs is to entice a supermarket chain into downtown. Hartford can be a great walking city, and while it does need more attractions, it does no good when people who live there have to schlep themselves to the Whethersfield or West Hartford boarder for remotely any options. Convenience stores and specialty markets are obviously not the answer.

To tie back in to your post, Rentschler doesn't move the needle in Hartford, because it is not walking distance from downtown and there is no easy method to get downtown via public transportation. Like many others, I have been going to football games for 11 years. Never once have we gone downtown before or after a game.
I follow what you're saying and do agree w/ you for the most part, but I don't think a 9000 seat, $60mil minor league stadium is a good fix. If it were to miraculously move the Rent into downtown, or for a new 20,000 seat XL center, I'd be totally onboard, but for an outdoor stadium this size, at that cost, I just don't see the juice being worth the squeeze.
 
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Side note...why wasn't the rent built in downtown Hartford?
 
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Husky25

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I follow what you're saying and do agree w/ you for the most part, but I don't think a 9000 seat, $60mil minor league stadium is a good fix. If it were to miraculously move the Rent into downtown, or for a new 20,000 seat XL center, I'd be totally onboard, but for an outdoor stadium this size, at that cost, I just don't see the juice being worth the squeeze.
I'm lukewarm. I certainly believe that there are better things for the City to spend money on and the fact that they are taking a team from 10 miles away and not an out of state locale is disconcerting, but Hartford needs attractions.

It is getting more a more desperate as time goes on as well. I worked in Hartford in the late 90's/early 00's and then again in 2012. I couldn't believe how bad it got over that 11 year period. My wife and I took our son to Ringling Bros. on Mother's Day last month and Hartford was so dead it felt like a scene out of I am Legend. While I wish the CRDA would clue the public into more of their plan (if there is more), it is good to see at least an effort.
 
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If they have money for this then why not money for a new xl center?

Bingo! They don't have the money for this. The city is almost bankrupt now. A general obligation bond for financing will not be at AAA rating, thus increasing the cost even more. A special purpose bond financed by revenues from the stadium is probably a no go. Having the state somehow guarantee the bond puts Malloy in a difficult position vis a vis New Britain. It also probably pushes a new hockey and BB stadium even further into the future.
 
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I guess wait and see. I thought New Britain had a really nice stadium and Hartford does need something, at the expense of New Britain though...
 

Waquoit

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But distance wise it's not very far (all of downtown is within basically a square mile). Google says its .7 miles or a 12 min walk between the stadium location and the convention center.

Plus they have a shuttle that goes from that area around the town
 

Waquoit

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I guess wait and see. I thought New Britain had a really nice stadium and Hartford does need something, at the expense of New Britain though...

They stole the team from Bristol when that stadium turned obsolete. It's the cycle of life.
 

Husky25

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Bingo! They don't have the money for this. The city is almost bankrupt now. A general obligation bond for financing will not be at AAA rating, thus increasing the cost even more. A special purpose bond financed by revenues from the stadium is probably a no go. Having the state somehow guarantee the bond puts Malloy in a difficult position vis a vis New Britain. It also probably pushes a new hockey and BB stadium even further into the future.
Well there is no way the State or Local governments would spend its own $35mm on capital improvements to the XL Center if they were just going to demolish the building 18 months later.
 
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Well there is no way the State or Local governments would spend its own $35mm on capital improvements to the XL Center if they were just going to demolish the building 18 months later.
They have always said that the improvements this year are meant to make the XL last another 10 years. We should hear talk about a new venue in 5ish I would imagine.
 

Dove

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They stole the team from Bristol when that stadium turned obsolete. It's the cycle of life.

I don't know the details of that move but did the Red Sox have the team in Bristol? I forget.

Anyway, Hartford was talking to the Rock Cats for two years!! That is an ass rape of your neighbor.
 
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I don't know the details of that move but did the Red Sox have the team in Bristol? I forget.

Anyway, Hartford was talking to the Rock Cats for two years!! That is an ass rape of your neighbor.
Wow, way to do zero reading. The Rock Cats approached Hartford not the other way around. Plus they said they were going to leave New Britain regardless and if it wasn't Hartford it would've been Springfield. So I'm assuming you'd want Massachusetts over Connecticut?
 

Dove

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Wow, way to do zero reading. The Rock Cats approached Hartford not the other way around.

Ergo, like I wrote, Hartford was talking them for two years!! In secrecy. Back stabbing secrecy. Sure, maybe the Cats were leaving but be above board, cowards.

In the end, they will succeed in Hartford.
 
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I don't know the details of that move but did the Red Sox have the team in Bristol? I forget.

Anyway, Hartford was talking to the Rock Cats for two years!! That is an ass rape of your neighbor.

Yes, the Bristol Red Sox moved to NB in the early 80's after 45 year old Muzzy Field was deemed too old/small.

Hartford officials are now saying that the Rock Cats were going to move to Springfield, MA if Hartford didn't step in.
 

Dove

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Hartford officials are now saying that the Rock Cats were going to move to Springfield, MA if Hartford didn't step in.

That's sounds admiral. Than God for Mayor Segarra and his council for saving AA baseball in CT! ;)
 
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There still something here that makes no sense. Why would the Rockcats go from a 100k/ year lease to a 500k/year lease, granted for a new facility, but would it be that much better? Are they expecting that much more revenue? It seems like quite a gamble to expect to fill the 2500 more seats often enough to make up the difference. There's got to be more to this than is being said.
 
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Two questions:
  1. Who is getting out of work at their insurance job in Hartford, driving home to Southington or Cromwell or Simsbury, then getting their kids back in the car and driving back into Hartford through traffic on a weeknight or a Friday night?
  2. With the ballpark having self-contained food and beverage options, how would this stimulate any additional revenue at bars/restaurants? Families aren't driving in, grabbing dinner at a restaurant then going to the game. Nor are they leaving the game and taking the kids to a bar. That's why a location like New Britain works and Hartford doesn't.
 

Husky25

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False analogy.

Who is getting out of work at their insurance job in Hartford, driving home to Southington Vernon or Cromwell Colchester or Simsbury Granby, then getting their kids back in the car and driving back into Hartford New Britain through traffic on a weeknight or a Friday night?

While New Britain was familiar, it was really not the most convenient location and the parking situation largely stunk. The same people who would gather up the tikes after work to go to New Britain should have no issue doing the same in Hartford. Finally, Double AA is kid and family friendly and a great value, no doubt. But there's probably as many people there without kids as with them, especially during the week. If I still worked in Hartford, I could easily see my self picking up a ten game voucher for after work.

My biggest issue with this move is the team from NB is moving to Hartford as opposed to Hartford getting a relocated team from out of state.
 
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They have always said that the improvements this year are meant to make the XL last another 10 years. We should hear talk about a new venue in 5ish I would imagine.


another 10 years of that rat trap, good Lord.
 
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False analogy. No, he's absolutely correct. There will still be people, but there will be less of them willing to sit in rush hour traffic twice. It's amazing that people who live in Connecticut don't understand people who live in Connecticut.





My biggest issue with this move is the team from NB is moving to Hartford as opposed to Hartford getting a relocated team from out of state. That was never going to happen at the AA or AAA level. The Rock Cats could block it.
 
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