Rizzotti, coaching, and UConn | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Rizzotti, coaching, and UConn

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I'm going to say something that will probably upset a lot of people. That's not my intent. I'll preface it by saying that I am a Shea Ralph fan. The contribution she has made to UConn basketball is huge. She will be a very successful head coach. But I would not like to see her as the UConn head coach.

The reason, and I could be totally wrong - I don't think she has a sense of humor and she very seldom smiles. Watch her on the sidelines there's nothing but serious and frowns of concern.

I prefer a little wiseass and some indication that the job can be enjoyable. I think Rizotti has some of that. Even if the coaching chops come out even between the two (I don't think they do) the Rizotti smile puts her over the top. JMO and that's allowed here.
 
Poor Jen, if Geno keeps eating his secret sauce he'll keep getting younger... and funnier!
 
I think it's an open secret that Jen absolutely wants the UConn job and has had her sights set on replacing Geno for a while.

And the benefits of having her at the helm, if that is indeed what happens, are obvious. Jen knows intimately what it took to build UConn into a national powerhouse; she was an integral part of that process. She would never want UConn to go back to having recruit kids like...well, her. Additionally, she's a fine coach and certainly someone who understands the "UConn way." She's someone who would be well-liked by the fanbase, Connecticut community, and recruits and their families. So all of that is a positive.

However, being a protoge of Geno doesn't mean that she's really, truly wired like Geno. No one is, and it's unrealistic to expect that they will be. The best anyone can hope for is that the next head coach can do the following:

  • Recruit elite talent
  • Develop that talent reasonably well
  • Be someone who does a good job of promoting and increasing visibility to the game on a national and international level
  • Do the same thing in New England
That's a lot to ask. Unfortunately, WCBB isn't chockful of great head coaches such that a Camelot program like UConn could just pluck one as needed and be reasonably certain tradition would be carried forward. If UConn were to go outside the "family," who would it hire??? Given that, someone with deep ties to the school and to this community would be as good a bet as you're going to get, and Jen fits that bill. Just don't assume she'll be anything close to a sure thing.
 
Kibitzer said:
I disagree with those posters who feel that Jen would need a bigger head coaching job or that Shea would need a head coaching job before taking on the UConn job. Such experience is not vital in my view.

Once there was a football coach whose total head coaching experience was five years at St. Cecilia Catholic High School in Englewood, N.J. After a few assistant coaching jobs, the Green Bay Packers hired him as their head coach. Vince Lombardi, arguably the greatest football coach ever. We all know how that turned out.

Then there was that assistant wcbb coach at the University of Virginia. Fellow named Auriemma.

And once upon a time President Theodore Roosevelt promoted a captain (over hundreds of senior officers) to brigadier general, an unprecedented advancement (and unmatched since). The officer's name was Pershing.

So much for the experience factor.
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General Pershing received the unprecedented promotion when he married Wyoming Senator Francis E. Warren's daughter. Governor Warren arranged Pershing's promotion to Brigadier General so that his daughter would continue living in the style to which she had grown accustomed. While true that Pershing, eventually proved himself worthy of the promotion, it is much easier to do from the top than having to work your way up the ranks. Known popularly and reverently as Blackjack Pershing, Blackjack was never intended as a compliment, but as a severe insult.

Coach Lombardi's assistant coaching stint prior to the Green Bay gig was with the New York Giants. Kibitzer, you allow that Coach Lombardy was, arguably, the greatest football coach ever. I will argue that he was not even close to being as good a football coach as the other Giants assistant, Tom Landry. The Lombardy Trophy is two close plays from being the Landry Trophy. Coach Landry was much more innovative, was a true genius at drafting, recruited heavily among the HBCUs which, back in the day, played outstanding football and turned out outstanding future pros. And, Coach Landry's success at Dallas spanned three entire decades through multiple player changeovers. He built Dallas from the ground up to where they are still the NFL's most popular team well over 20 years since he last prowled the sidelines.

All that said, I do agree that Coach Rizzotti dooes not need a stint head coaching at a higher level program prior to speculatively taking over the helm at UConn. However,t he only reason Coach Rizzotti does not require the prior qualification is because she is Jennifer Rizzotti. Any other coach under speculative consideration will have to be a head coach at a successful high level program or come from within the UConn family.
 
A friend told me that when Dean Smith retired she sat in her living room and cried. She said when Geno retires, I will be doing the same thing. Should Jen be appointed head coach, a portion of those tears will be tears of joy.
 
"Governor Warren arranged Pershing's promotion to Brigadier General so that his daughter would continue living in the style to which she had grown accustomed."

I'm not sure that statement should be presented as fact. How do you know that?
 
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vtcwbuff said:
"Governor Warren arranged Pershing's promotion to Brigadier General so that his daughter would continue living in the style to which she had grown accustomed."

I'm not sure that statement should be presented as fact. How do you know that?
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I was assigned to FE Warren AFB in 1982 during which we were given a tour of the base as part of our orientation. About the only thing I remember from that tour was mention of Pershing's tour of duty at, what was then, Fort Russell, the house he occupied(still standing), his marriage to FE Warren's daughter, his subsequent promotion to Brigadier General jumping over 300 higher ranking officers, and eventually proving himself worthy of the promotion. What you quoted above is as close to verbatim as 30 years will allow.
Unless the powers that be at FE Warren AFB are wont to perpetuate myths, then I, certainly, have no reason to believe otherwise; And, I stand by it. Until then, I had no idea that Pershing had made the astonomical jump from captain to general.
 
I read Pershing's bio several years ago. What I remember of it was that he had two big time supporters. Rooseveldt and MacArthur. Rooseveldt had tried unsuccessfully to get Pershing promoted early a couple of years before Pershing married. It wasn't until Pershing had punched the requisite tickets that Rooseveldt could get him promoted to Brigadier General.

Pershing was a hot runner (or whatever the Army equivalent is). He was first in his class at West Point and had a distinguished combat record including San Juan Hill. IIRC his biographer gave the credit to Rooseveldt.

My point is that his marriage may or may not have had some influence but to state that as the reason for his early promotion without anything substantial to back it up does disservice to one of the country's great military men.
 
Pershing was unquestionably an extraordinary young officer, possibly deserving of his big jump to BG and possibly this was facilitated by his marriage. More recently, a cadet in the senior class at West Point (one of a thousand or so) had the luck/charm/foresight or something that persuaded the daughter of the Superintendent (that's the 3-star general who runs the Academy) to marry him. Amazingly, his first assignments were coveted career builders with the elite 82nd and 101st Airborne Divisions -- then he enjoyed early politically advantageous assignments at the Pentagon. His name was David Petraeus.

VAUConnFan said:
Governor Warren arranged Pershing's promotion to Brigadier General so that his daughter would continue living in the style to which she had grown accustomed.

Kibitzer, you allow that Coach Lombardy was, arguably, the greatest football coach ever. I will argue that he was not even close to being as good a football coach as the other Giants assistant, Tom Landry. He built Dallas from the ground up to where they are still the NFL's most popular team.
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As for Lombardi, look at the record of the Green Bay Packers before he arrived and immediately after he took over. Astonishing turnaround. Then he did it again with the then woeful Washington Redskins.

Dallas is not the most popular team in the NFL. The Pittsburgh Steelers are and have been for many years. One reason is that they have had only three head coaches (Noll, Cowher, Tomlin) in 47 years. Each has won the Super Bowl (seven in all) and none had head coaching experience (which is what we are discussing) before taking the reins/reigns with the "Stillers."
 
vtcwbuff said:
I read Pershing's bio several years ago. What I remember of it was that he had two big time supporters. Rooseveldt and MacArthur. Rooseveldt had tried unsuccessfully to get Pershing promoted early a couple of years before Pershing married. It wasn't until Pershing had punched the requisite tickets that Rooseveldt could get him promoted to Brigadier General.

Pershing was a hot runner (or whatever the Army equivalent is). He was first in his class at West Point and had a distinguished combat record including San Juan Hill. IIRC his biographer gave the credit to Rooseveldt.

My point is that his marriage may or may not have had some influence but to state that as the reason for his early promotion without anything substantial to back it up does disservice to one of the country's great military men.
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1. Pershing graduated West Point 17 years(1886-1903) ahead of MacArthur and was 20 years older. MacArthur absolutely loathed Pershing, their paths first crossing when MacArthur, himself, was a plebe and Pershing was assigned tot he Military Academy.
2. The history you read about Roosevelt trying to get Pershing promoted a couple of years prior to Pershing's marriage to FE Warren's daughter is somewhat revisionist and only somewhat true. The timeline would cast aspersions on any and all debates about this subject. When Pershing's marriage to the Senator's daughter appeared inevitable, President Roosevelt tried to go through normal channels to get Pershing promoted to colonel. When Congress did not comply, Roosevelt bided his time, offered up some plum ticket punching assignments, then eventually capitulated to Senator Warren's cajoling and promoted Pershing to brigadier general. Pershing's promotion to brigadier general totally circumvented Congress.
3. Pershing was nowhere close to first in his class at West Point. General MacArthur was first in his respective class, but Pershing was not. Pershing was also 26 when he graduated West Point, and had only attained the permanent rank of captain in 20 years of service before getting the huge promotion(Yes, I understand things were different a century ago. In today's military, one would be asked to resign their commission if still a captain after 20 years)
4. As for substantial backup, one would have to check with the historians at FE Warren AFB to see if they are still telling the same story told at base orientations 30 years ago.
 
Kibitzer said:
Pershing was unquestionably an extraordinary young officer, possibly deserving of his big jump to BG and possibly this was facilitated by his marriage. More recently, a cadet in the senior class at West Point (one of a thousand or so) had the luck/charm/foresight or something that persuaded the daughter of the Superintendent (that's the 3-star general who runs the Academy) to marry him. Amazingly, his first assignments were coveted career builders with the elite 82nd and 101st Airborne Divisions -- then he enjoyed early politically advantageous assignments at the Pentagon. His name was David Petraeus.



As for Lombardi, look at the record of the Green Bay Packers before he arrived and immediately after he took over. Astonishing turnaround. Then he did it again with the then woeful Washington Redskins.
The same can be said of Parcells, George Allen, Dick Vermeil,...Which is not to say to Coach Lombardi did not do a great job, just arguing against him being the greatest.

Dallas is not the most popular team in the NFL. The Pittsburgh Steelers are and have been for many years. One reason is that they have had only three head coaches (Noll, Cowher, Tomlin) in 47 years. Each has won the Super Bowl (seven in all) and none had head coaching experience (which is what we are discussing) before taking the reins/reigns with the "Stillers."
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You have to love Mr. Rooney. Great tie-in!

It never hurts to marry well:) .

You are telling me, Kibitzer, that Pittsburgh is more popular than Dallas as far as merchandise sales and television ratings? Everything you say about Pittsburgh is certainly true, it is hard to believe that equates to them being more popular than Dallas. Still, research is in order.
 
I missed the point on the Steelers' popularity. I'd question that too. I think Kib has roots in that part of the country. Dallas is generally regarded as both the most popular and most dislike team in the NFL. The Steelers, like other teams, get a bump in popularity with each Super Bowl win (see the Pats).

I live near D.C. but am not a Redskins' fan. I grew up as a Giants fan. I suspect they still have a huge fan base of people in and from the NY metro area. I think the Saints became very popular post Katrina, with Drew Brees and their exciting offense. The bounty situation may have cut into that.
 
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VAUConnFan said:
1. Pershing graduated West Point 17 years(1886-1903) ahead of MacArthur and was 20 years older. MacArthur absolutely loathed Pershing, their paths first crossing when MacArthur, himself, was a plebe and Pershing was assigned tot he Military Academy.
2. The history you read about Roosevelt trying to get Pershing promoted a couple of years prior to Pershing's marriage to FE Warren's daughter is somewhat revisionist and only somewhat true. The timeline would cast aspersions on any and all debates about this subject. When Pershing's marriage to the Senator's daughter appeared inevitable, President Roosevelt tried to go through normal channels to get Pershing promoted to colonel. When Congress did not comply, Roosevelt bided his time, offered up some plum ticket punching assignments, then eventually capitulated to Senator Warren's cajoling and promoted Pershing to brigadier general. Pershing's promotion to brigadier general totally circumvented Congress.
3. Pershing was nowhere close to first in his class at West Point. General MacArthur was first in his respective class, but Pershing was not. Pershing was also 26 when he graduated West Point, and had only attained the permanent rank of captain in 20 years of service before getting the huge promotion(Yes, I understand things were different a century ago. In today's military, one would be asked to resign their commission if still a captain after 20 years)
4. As for substantial backup, one would have to check with the historians at FE Warren AFB to see if they are still telling the same story told at base orientations 30 years ago.
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A couple of things - The MacArthur I referred to was Arthur MacArthur the elder, not "Dugout Doug" of WWII fame and I was wrong when I said that Pershing graduated top of his class. Academically, he graduated 30th in a class of 70. However, he was the highest ranking cadet in each of his classes at West Point. His senior year he was selected as 1st Captain, the highest cadet ranking at West Point. Therein my confusion.

Were you aware that Pershing was one of five "early" promotions by Rooseveldt? I don't know who the others were but I wonder if they too had married into political pull.
 
Okay, now that we got that solved, it's time to figger out who'd a-told Richard 'Arris he could sing..:mad:
 
vtcwbuff said:
A couple of things - The MacArthur I referred to was Arthur MacArthur the elder, not "Dugout Doug" of WWII fame and I was wrong when I said that Pershing graduated top of his class. Academically, he graduated 30th in a class of 70. However, he was the highest ranking cadet in each of his classes at West Point. His senior year he was selected as 1st Captain, the highest cadet ranking at West Point. Therein my confusion.

Were you aware that Pershing was one of five "early" promotions by Rooseveldt? I don't know who the others were but I wonder if they too had married into political pull.
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1. I was not aware of the senior MacArthur's patronage of young John Pershing.
2. I am well aware of the accounts of the five early promotions President Roosevelt made that included Pershing. No one else knows who those other four are either and I will assume that both Roosevelt's and Pershing's respective biographers are long dead.
 
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