RIP Whitey Ford

[Steelerone]

That play by Mantle allowed the tying run to score in the ninth and forced the game into the bottom of the inning where Maz hit the winner over the left field wall of Forbes Field. BTW that portion of the wall still stands near the new ballpark on the Northside, even though the field was torn down in 1971 to make room for the ever expanding Pitt campus and UPMC facilities.

Bama, I took our Grandson to the "Burgh" recently and one of the things I made sure he saw was that portion of the wall. Unfortunately, the Original Hot Dog is gone but he loved Wholeys.

 

[Steelerone]

Still one of the best commercials ever.

Who didn't want to be one of these two.

Ed, as I recall when Billy and Micky got into that brouha at some bar ownership decided that he ws a bad influence on the younger players like Mantle and traded him away. It broke his heart. He looked upon Casey Stengel as a surrogate father and if anyone ever had Yankee blood flowing through his veins it was Martin. He was one of my favorite players but in retrospect it was probably a good move at the time.

 

[oldude]

The 1961 season was Whitey’s best. During a season where all of Baseball was focused on Mantle & Maris chasing down Babe Ruth’s HR record, with Maris pulling ahead of an injured Mantle and passing Ruth on the last day of the season, Ford was also spectacular. He was 25-4, pitching 283 innings with 11 complete games.

That earned Whitey the Cy Young Award. But the best was yet to come. In the World Series vs the Reds, Ford did not give up an earned run in 2 starts, the Yankees won in 5 games, and Whitey was the Series MVP.

 

[EdSaid]

Ed, as I recall when Billy and Micky got into that brouha at some bar ownership decided that he ws a bad influence on the younger players like Mantle and traded him away. It broke his heart. He looked upon Casey Stengel as a surrogate father and if anyone ever had Yankee blood flowing through his veins it was Martin. He was one of my favorite players but in retrospect it was probably a good move at the time.

I grew up outside of Boston and was a big Red Sox fan as a kid. My father used to talk about two baseball players, Billy Martin and Jimmy Piersall. He said Piersall was the greatest outfielder he ever saw, and Martin was the toughest ball player he ever saw. My father was old enough to have seen games at Braves field as a member of the knothole gang and used to sneak into Fenway. He saw Ruth Gerhig, Dimaggio, and Williams, and yet he talked about those two.

No one made Mantle drink. If anything, Martin would have protected Mantle. I've heard that story many times. And for what its worth, Mantle did more for organ donors than any human being. If they didn't move him up the list, they should have.

 

[EdSaid]

It’s a little harder to make that case for postseason pitching.

Ford: 10-8, 2.71 era (all in the World Series)
Kershaw: 11-11, 4.21 era (includes LDS, LCS & World Series games)

When I hear these modern announcers talk about postseason records it makes me sick. If you want to talk records, talk about World Series records. The money was on the table and these guys stood up and took the money. They didn't work out, they didn't eat right, they chewed, they drank all night, they traveled by train, and they didn't make much money. They were real baseball players.

 

[Steelerone]

I grew up outside of Boston and was a big Red Sox fan as a kid. My father used to talk about two baseball players, Billy Martin and Jimmy Piersall. He said Piersall was the greatest outfielder he ever saw, and Martin was the toughest ball player he ever saw. My father was old enough to have seen games at Braves field as a member of the knothole gang and used to sneak into Fenway. He saw Ruth Gerhig, Dimaggio, and Williams, and yet he talked about those two.

No one made Mantle drink. If anything, Martin would have protected Mantle. I've heard that story many times. And for what its worth, Mantle did more for organ donors than any human being. If they didn't move him up the list, they should have.

Oh, yea, I remember the old Boston Braves. Talk about irony. Boston was a Red Sox city and the Braves were dying so they move to Milwaukee and what happens? Arron, Matthews, Spahn Sain and World Series victories.. Sorry but I've got to disagree with you a little on the Mantle and Martin escapade. Billy was from San Diego and was a product of a tough environment. Mantle on the other hand was a kid from Oklahoma who was, from all accounts, very naive and unsophisticated. He admired Billy and followed him like a puppy. True, he made his own choice but I'm not sure that introducing him to New York's nightlife was protecting him. As to being an organ donor, as I recall they moved Mickey up the ladder ahead of many other people and there was quite a brouhaha about it at the time. He did become a spokesman for organ donors but, unfortunately, for only a short time before his death. I had a few meals at Mickey's steakhouse in Oklahoma. Great atmosphere, tough steak.

 

[topogigio]

Whi

I think it is difficult to compare pitchers across eras.

Complete Games - Ford - over 150, about 11 a season
Complete Games - Kershaw - 25, about 2 a season

Just one of many examples of changes over the years.

which was exactly my point re: “nobody close to him today”. Ford, like Gibson, Koufax and the like actually pitched “a game”, a complete game, not just 5 or six innings and claimed victory. Yes, the game was different, but I can’t think of one pitcher today who can successfully pitch complete games like Ford!

 

[JonathanXIV]

Whi

which was exactly my point re: “nobody close to him today”. Ford, like Gibson, Koufax and the like actually pitched “a game”, a complete game, not just 5 or six innings and claimed victory. Yes, the game was different, but I can’t think of one pitcher today who can successfully pitch complete games like Ford!

It's a different game. For example, the best strikeout pitchers of yesterday pale (in terms of strikeouts per innings pitched) to today's pitchers. The best we can do is acknowledge these differences and compare players to their contemporaries. Ford was one of the best of his time. That's why he's deservedly in the HOF.

 

[topogigio]

It's a different game. For example, the best strikeout pitchers of yesterday pale (in terms of strikeouts per innings pitched) to today's pitchers. The best we can do is acknowledge these differences and compare players to their contemporaries. Ford was one of the best of his time. That's why he's deservedly in the HOF.

Agree somewhat, but the hitters of yesterday knew how to swing a bat just to make contact, move runners over, sacrifice, and above all, bunt! Today, most swing for the fences or whiff, which explains the higher strikeout ratio.

 

[Zanzman]

More incentive for the Yankees tonight.
BTW, thanks to the Red Sox for singlehandedly sending us to the playoffs.
I hope your efforts will be rewarded.

They were last night thank you Tampa Bay

 

[EdSaid]

Agree somewhat, but the hitters of yesterday knew how to swing a bat just to make contact, move runners over, sacrifice, and above all, bunt! Today, most swing for the fences or whiff, which explains the higher strikeout ratio.

You can not compare strikeout pitchers of today against strikeout pitchers of 60 years ago.

2019 MLB 42,823 / 30 teams 1427 strikeouts per team average
1960 MLB 12,815 / 16 teams 801 strikeouts per team.
MLB avg salary in 1960 $80,000
MLB avg salary in 2019 $4.43 million You can adjust it for inflation all you want. No free agency, very little TV revenue.

When was the last time you saw someone choke up with two strikes and try to make contact? Bunting is almost non-existent. Everyone wants to drive the ball today. Pitching records for strikeouts today should have an asterisk.

 

[EdSaid]

Just spend a day with these guys.

 

[EdSaid]

 

[EdSaid]

Mikey said it was Whitey that was the bad influence on him.

 

[MSGRET]

No one is taking anything away from Kershaw , when as loyal Yankee fans, we say “no one comes close to him today”. To us, the class he showed, the team leadership he provided and the fabulous memories he left ( added to his outstanding pitching record) makes him, in our minds, a very special Yankee and unique player that no “one today....... ( even) comes close!”

I believe that last pitcher to come close was Nolan Ryan. The game has drastically changed since Ryan pitched. He ended his career with 5,714 SO and 7 career no-hitters, both are still MLB records. If I remember correctly Ryan is the only pitcher to have his number retired by three differant teams and is those three teams HOF. Those teams are the Angels, Astros (NL), and Rangers.

 

[EdSaid]

Two points about baseball's evolution in the past 60 years.

By Dan Shaughnessy, Boston Globe 10-17-20

"More baseball deterioration: When the Pirates beat the Yankees, 10-9, in Game 7 of the World Series 60 years ago, the game was played in 2:36 and there were zero strikeouts. The Dodgers and Braves needed 4:12 to play a nine-inning game last week in which there were 23 strikeouts."

"I get annoyed when I see TV graphics about leaders in “postseason homers.” Don’t be ranking Mickey Mantle’s 18 “postseason” homers behind Manny Ramirez (29), Bernie Williams (22), and Derek Jeter (20). The Mick’s “postseason” homers were all hit in the World Series. It’s a record that should not be confused with homers hit in the LDS, LCS, or whatever we call that Round of 16 this season. "

 

[Steelerone]

Vernon Law, the Pirates ace pitcher in the same 1960 World Series, also won 2 games. He started the final game but could not finish. He had one of my favorite quotes in sports and life in general. He said "Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, and the lesson afterwards". Simple and eloquent, like Vern himself.

A class act, Bama. Saw him pitch at Forbes Field many times. He was there for both the best and worst times for Pirate baseball. I always thought that if he had started and finished his career with a team like the Yankees or Dodgers he would be a HOF and won well over two hundred games. But those were the days prior to free agency and the players had no recourse. He was also one of the best hitting pitchers in baseball and was often used as a pinch hitter.

 

[boontonbomber]

At a golf tournament in Waterbury, Ct many years ago, they had the usual dinner the night before the tournament began, and I ended up sitting at the same table with two Yankee legends, Charlie "King Kong" Keller and Tommy Byrne. The conversation turned to a discussion of the greatest Yankee pitcher, and Keller said, without a doubt, that it was Ford. Why I opened my mouth I'll never know, but I said something like , " wasn't he really just a curve ball, junk ball pitcher". Keller looked at me like he wanted to reach across the table with one of his huge forearms, and give me a shiver. Rather than do that, he simply asked me how many times I had batted against Ford.