RIP HOF pitcher Tom Seaver | Page 2 | The Boneyard

RIP HOF pitcher Tom Seaver

JonathanXIV said:
Seaver was 20-10 in 1971 with a 1.76 ERA and led the league in strikeouts. Jenkins was 24-13 with an ERA over a run higher. Even as a kid I knew that Seaver should have won the Cy Young that year.
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I hear you, Mate. I certainly thought that at the time. Probably remains true. I suspect they gave the award to Jenkins because of some prejudice that disproportionately weighted wins and IP. Jenkins had 3 more starts (39 to 36); more IP (325 v. 286); and he pitched 30 (!) complete games (vs. Seaver's 21). Fergie also gave up fewer walks. But Seaver bested him in just about every other statistical category, comparatively and in absolute terms: fewer hits; fewer HRs allowed, more shutouts, more Ks, fewer HBP, fewer IBB, fewer losses, higher win %, etc. While not a factor in Cy Young voting, Seaver was also a better fielder (1 error over the entire season, v. 7 errors by Jenkins), though in fairness Jenkins had a better year at the plate, including 6 HRs (!).

Over Seaver's last 12 starts that season (early August to season's end) his ERA was a hair above 1.00.
 
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bluedevil said:
In 1969 the Mets played a doubleheader one day and won both games 1 to 0. The starting pitcher in each game drove in the only run. That will Never happen again. 1969 was the most magical year in baseball history and Tom Seaver was the head magician....Don't tell anyone but my password for everyone of my devices is some form of his name....
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The Mets had a weird and wonderful run in '69.

As you note, Koos and Cardwell both knocked in the only run in the 1-0, 1-0 doubleheader wins against Pittsburgh;​
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The Mets got no-hit by Bob Moose during the heat of the September pennant race;​
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A week earlier Steve Carelton struck out 19 Mets including Swoboda twice; but Rocky hit a 2-run homer his other 2 at bats for a 4-3 Mets win;​
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Mid-August Juan Marichal pitched 13 scoreless innings but was matched by Gentry and McGraw, and the Mets won in the bottom of the 14th on an Agee HR. That game featured 12 (!) IBBs;​
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About 2 months earlier, the forgotten Jack Dilauro pitched 9 innings of 2 hit shutout ball against the Dodgers, in a game the Mets won 1-0 in 15 innings;​
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from mid-August to mid-September, Jim McAndrew made 6 starts, tossing back-to-back complete game shutouts, with an ERA of 1.21 during that stretch;​
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Agee (a leadoff hitter) lead the team in HRs (26) and RBIs (76); next closest in HR was Shamsky with a mere 14;​
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Koosman was 8-7 on August 8th; ended the season winning 9 of his final 10 decisions to go 17-9;​
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Good-field no hit Al Weis knocked in the winning run in Game 2 of the WS; and a few days later homered off Dave McNally in Game 5 -- his only HR of the year at Shea -- to tie a game the Mets went on to win. Weis had hit only 4 HRs over the past 7 seasons. One of them was previously off Dave McNally.​
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30 of the Mets 100 wins that season were by shutout​
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In the World Series, from the 4th inning of Game 1 until the 3rd inning of Game 5 (34 innings), the powerful Orioles scored a grand total of 2 runs. That's a 0.52 ERA for Mets pitching during that stretch.​
​
During the same stretch, the top six Orioles hitters in the lineup (Don Buford, Paul Blair, Frank Robinson, Boog Powell, Brooks Robinson, and Davey Johnson) combined for .121 batting average, with only 8 hits (all singles) in 66 ABs.​
 
UConnCat said:
Working on his own book, Swoboda telephoned Seaver one day. It was around the time the teammates visited Tom on Diamond Mountain. Swoboda wasn't sure if it was just before or just after the get-together.

"Remember when Hodges came out to visit you on the mound in the ninth inning in the World Series?" Swoboda said to Seaver. "What did he say to you?"

Seaver could not remember the meeting.

"Remember that almost perfect game you had against the Cubs?" Swoboda asked.

Again, Seaver had no memory of it.

"Tom just didn't remember," Swoboda said. "He couldn't put any of those little pieces together. He couldn't find them. They were gone.

"It rattled me, if only because those memories are such treasures to me. The thought that something could sneak in and steal them from him and that now they are gone, just gone, is tragic beyond words."

www.si.com

Tom Seaver and the Enduring Hope of the 1969 Mets

No one was more important to the improbable '69 Mets title team than Tom Seaver, artist on the mound and an American ideal off it.
www.si.com www.si.com
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You're killin' me.
 
One more comment about Seaver. He was a power pitcher and needed 4 days of rest between starts. The handful of times he pitched on 3 days rest he was good but not Tom Seaver good. Fast forward to the world series 1973. Mets up 3 games to 2..Yogi Berra (ugh) is the manager. What does he do.. pitches Seaver on 3 days rest for game 6. We all know the rest. Had Seaver pitched game 7 instead..No one on Earth would have said that he would not have won that game. Literally broke my heart...RIP #41
 
:cool:I'm
bantamlaker said:
Loved Tom and the Miracle Mets. On October 16,1969 some friends and I cut out of school and headed to Shea Stadium to see Jerry Koosman win game 5 to clinch the World Series after Tom had put the Mets up 3-1 the previous day. I still have my ticket and piece of Shea Stadium turf as a reminder of that fine day when the Mets were on top of the world. Thanks for the memories Tom!
View attachment 58362
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Great story and memory. One striking detail is that you and your friends were able to walk up to the gate on game day and buy tickets to a WS game. Am I wrong in thinking it has been a long time since that was possible?
 
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connie said:
I hear you, Mate. I certainly thought that at the time. Probably remains true. I suspect they gave the award to Jenkins because of some prejudice that disproportionately weighted wins and IP. Jenkins had 3 more starts (39 to 36); more IP (325 v. 286); and he pitched 30 (!) complete games (vs. Seaver's 21). Fergie also gave up fewer walks. But Seaver bested him in just about every other statistical category, comparatively and in absolute terms: fewer hits; fewer HRs allowed, more shutouts, more Ks, fewer HBP, fewer IBB, fewer losses, higher win %, etc. While not a factor in Cy Young voting, Seaver was also a better fielder (1 error over the entire season, v. 7 errors by Jenkins), though in fairness Jenkins had a better year at the plate, including 6 HRs (!).

Over Seaver's last 12 starts that season (early August to season's end) his ERA was a hair above 1.00.
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Nah, it was just the fact that Fergie had 4 more wins. Cy Young would go to the pitcher with the most wins, regardless of how well they pitched. Exhibit A - Steve Stone, an otherwise undistinguished pitcher, winning the 1980 Cy Young with a 25-7 record. And was out of baseball by 1982.
 
This is an excerpt from a book, October 1964, that my friend posted on FB. There is no link for it but I have credited the author at the end of the story. It is about Seaver and Bob Gibson.

This excerpt is about an onfield confrontation between Tom Seaver and the legendary Bob Gibson (one of my baseball heroes).
"He [Gibson] respected strength in others: he knew another samurai when he saw one. Once in spring training when Gibson was getting a little older and Tom Seaver was in his prime, John Milner of the Mets hit two doubles off Gibson. The next time he came up Gibson nailed him in the ribs. A few weeks later, when the two teams played in St. Louis during the regular season, Seaver was on the mound for the Mets. It was time for Seaver to make a statement for himself and for his team. He chose his moment very carefully: Gibson was up with two outs, and Seaver would be the first Met up in the next inning, so there would be a chance for Gibson to retaliate if he so chose. Seaver threw three pitches inside at Gibson, driving him farther and farther away from the plate; the last pitch came in so close that Gibson had to spin around to get out of the way, using the bat more like a cane than a bat. Then it was Seaver’s turn to bat against Gibson. The first pitch came in fast, and just over Seaver’s head. The umpire had come out from behind the plate at that point to try and stop it, but Seaver pushed him aside. “Shut up,” he said, “this is none of your business.” At that point Seaver stepped away from the plate and yelled out to Gibson, “As far as I’m concerned this is over. But if you want to continue, we can keep going at it, and you better know that I throw a lot harder than you do now, you old fart.” And that indeed ended it."
Halberstam, David. October 1964 (p. 271). Open Road Media.
 
I guess it's time to share my Met memories of 1969. In 1968 the NY Mets lost 89 games and finished ninth. They won a single game more than the Houston Astros (who had just changed their name from the Colt 45's). I was there when the Mets won the pennant, beating the Hank Aaron Braves. Gentry started and got knocked out early and Nolan Ryan came in to pitch the last 7 innings. When Nolan was warming up the crowd literally went "Ooooo" after every pitch. When Nolan struck out the last batter the crowd went nuts. It was just a bit anti-climatic in comparison to winning the divisional crown. The crowd wasn't nearly as delirious. In September the Mets won the division beating the Cardinals. I wasn't there for that. We Met fans then stayed in the stadium for close to 40 mins. chanting and screaming "Let's go Mets". We all refused to leave. It was glorious and redemptive. Especially for those of us Met fans (and the stadium was filled with us) who were former Dodger fans and felt betrayed and disgusted by their leaving.

Met fans were always different from other fans in the league, especially Yankee fans. We cheered wildly when a runner ran hard to first after grounding out. We cheered on hard slides into 2nd. We cheered when Ron Hunt took one in the ribs for the team. We cheered on a good catch in the outfield. Why? Because we lost over 100 games for four straight years and for 5 out of six years. When we lost 89 games in 1968 and finished next to last that was something to cheer about. In our first year,1962, we lost 120 games, the most in the history of baseball. In 1969 the Mets went from being the worst team in baseball to win the World Series. As far as I know that had never been done before. The team was built on pitching and defense, not hitting. To this day the NY Met organization has no clue what a .300 hitter looks like as a youngster. But they do know what a pitcher looks like, pretty much while they're in the crib.

Tom Seaver was the largest jewel in the Mets championship crown. He was a combination of a new and old school pitcher. Hard nosed but compassionate, highly skilled and highly responsible. He took his body seriously and as a family man was no late night partier. He saw pitching as a job. Batters and other players weren't his enemy, but necessary impediments. He was always a gentleman and incredibly clean cut, and will always be my Met. RIP Mr. Terrific.
 
There is a rookie card from 1967 with Tom Seaver and Bill Denehy. Denehy was from Middletown, CT and had a brief and unremarkable major league career. He is best known for this card and for being provided as compensation for the Mets signing Gil Hodges as manager.

When I was in college I played on a summer baseball team in Middletown that included a lot of his former high school/American Legion teammates and friends. This card is commonly referred to as the Seaver rookie card, but they said he referred to it as the Denehy rookie card!

Bill coached baseball at the University of Hartford and coached a number of good players there, most notably Jeff Bagwell (who went to high school in Middletown).

My cousin was a very good pitcher back then and he idolized Seaver. He tried to emulate that "drop and drive" pitching motion of Tom. If you see pictures of Seaver in his delivery, you will notice his right knee is practically touching the ground. Incredible extension.

I only saw him pitch in person once, and that was at Fenway Park in 1986. He finished his career with the Red Sox and that was one of his final appearances. Unfortunately, the Sox and Seaver lost although I am very fuzzy about the details.

He was also excellent in the broadcasting booth. He was articulate and had a very engaging personality. And he knew a little bit about pitching.

Rip, Tom.

denehy.jpg
 
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I am a Mets fan, but not born to see Seaver pitch. I do know he was one of the greats. And 2020 is not!
 
I remember (barely) my first Mets game, pre-Seaver.
It was a double-header at the old Polo Grounds; their first year.
The gang that couldn't shoot straight.
It was the first series against the Pirates
They lost the first game, were winning the nighcap when it started to snow...Can you believe it? Game called.
 
A couple of additional facts/statistics that illuminate the greatness of Seaver. In the first decade of his career, his ERA in 64 no-decisions was 2.97. In the four years from 1969 to 1972, he won 20 games in which his teams scored just one or two runs. Pitched for a losing team 8 times. Four other times his teams had a losing record when he wasn't pitching. What his record would have been if the Mets could hit.
 
JordyG said:
I guess it's time to share my Met memories of 1969. In 1968 the NY Mets lost 89 games and finished ninth. They won a single game more than the Houston Astros (who had just changed their name from the Colt 45's). I was there when the Mets won the pennant, beating the Hank Aaron Braves. Gentry started and got knocked out early and Nolan Ryan came in to pitch the last 7 innings. When Nolan was warming up the crowd literally went "Ooooo" after every pitch. When Nolan struck out the last batter the crowd went nuts. It was just a bit anti-climatic in comparison to winning the divisional crown. The crowd wasn't nearly as delirious. In September the Mets won the division beating the Cardinals. I wasn't there for that. We Met fans then stayed in the stadium for close to 40 mins. chanting and screaming "Let's go Mets". We all refused to leave. It was glorious and redemptive. Especially for those of us Met fans (and the stadium was filled with us) who were former Dodger fans and felt betrayed and disgusted by their leaving.

Met fans were always different from other fans in the league, especially Yankee fans. We cheered wildly when a runner ran hard to first after grounding out. We cheered on hard slides into 2nd. We cheered when Ron Hunt took one in the ribs for the team. We cheered on a good catch in the outfield. Why? Because we lost over 100 games for four straight years and for 5 out of six years. When we lost 89 games in 1968 and finished next to last that was something to cheer about. In our first year,1962, we lost 120 games, the most in the history of baseball. In 1969 the Mets went from being the worst team in baseball to win the World Series. As far as I know that had never been done before. The team was built on pitching and defense, not hitting. To this day the NY Met organization has no clue what a .300 hitter looks like as a youngster. But they do know what a pitcher looks like, pretty much while they're in the crib.

Tom Seaver was the largest jewel in the Mets championship crown. He was a combination of a new and old school pitcher. Hard nosed but compassionate, highly skilled and highly responsible. He took his body seriously and as a family man was no late night partier. He saw pitching as a job. Batters and other players weren't his enemy, but necessary impediments. He was always a gentleman and incredibly clean cut, and will always be my Met. RIP Mr. Terrific.
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This is just wonderful. Thank you. A little bit heartbroken about all this. Reading these comments helps.
 
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connie said:
This is just wonderful. Thank you. A little bit heartbroken about all this. Reading these comments helps.
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Me too. I repeat. *&#k 2020.
 
Picture a very shy high school kid, who other than homework did three things—
solitary bike rides or cross country (perfect sport for an introvert) running, reading,
and playing/listening to music. And then the Mets came. Foggy memory tells me it was 1964.

"Mom! Dad! We've gotta go to (Name of local appliance shop, long forgotten),
tonight! The Mets are gonna be there!!!!"
This was so out of character for the junior nerd that the parental units took note, and drove there, me clutching a fistful of Mets bubblegum cards. Awestruck, I barely mumbled, "Please..." and held out the cards and a pen to Larry Bearnarth and Al Jackson. They signed, with genuine smiles.

One of the two best things in my high school days.
 
Three pitchers in baseball history pitched 10 innings in a World Series game without allowing an extra base hit. Of course Seaver was the last to do it in 1969 and in that game on 3 days rest he threw 150 pitchers...
 
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