Restructuring Division 1

[CL82]

Thank you!

Lol, you don't need me to white knight you buddy.

 

[buddy]

Lol, you don't need me to white knight you buddy.

Just nice to see someone else on almost the same page. ESPN has the money and can control who a conference admits or denies.

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

You do realize that ESPN chose to extend its contract with the ACC after the addition of Cal, stamford and SMU, right? It doesn't really jibe with your contention that they were opposed to the expansion.

"Please use facts instead of your thoughts." 😏

They were opposed to it but still renewed. Both are true.

 

[uconnbill]

My guess Division 1 will not include all the teams that are currently in SEC, BIG, ACC, B12. For example I could see the group not including teams like BC, Wake Forest, Northwestern, Rutgers, Syracuse, Cal, etc.

Disagree as the government, especially those in the states you are excluding. That will not happen.

 

[CL82]

They were opposed to it but still renewed. Both are true.

So do you have anything whatsoever except for "Your thoughts" that says they were opposed to the additions? That was the standard you were holding Buddy to, right?

 

[CL82]

Just nice to see someone else on almost the same page. ESPN has the money and can control who a conference admits or denies.

Pretty much. After the Big East got shived, it became where the power lies.

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

So do you have anything whatsoever except for "Your thoughts" that says they were opposed to the additions? That was the standard you were holding Buddy to, right?

Yes... Per the ACC/ESPN agreement, the ACC had the power to add teams and the initial response by ESPN was cold to SMU/Calford and FSU, UNC, NC State, and Clemson were opposed. They negotiated it such that the three new schools got full ACC Network revenue but only partial shares from ESPN (SMU none at all and 30% for Calford for the first 7 years).

You keep saying ESPN is the judge and jury in a unilateral way but it's just not true. The conferences and their respective media partners are just that - partners. Neither holds all the cards and they know that they cannot bully the other party. One isn't successful without the other benefitting. They compromise with each other so as to create win-wins.

 

[CL82]

Yes... Per the ACC/ESPN agreement, the ACC had the power to add teams and the initial response by ESPN was cold to SMU/Calford and FSU, UNC, NC State, and Clemson were opposed. They negotiated it such that the three new schools got full ACC Network revenue but only partial shares from ESPN (SMU none at all and 30% for Calford for the first 7 years).

You keep saying ESPN is the judge and jury in a unilateral way but it's just not true. The conferences and their respective media partners are just that - partners. Neither holds all the cards and they know that they cannot bully the other party. One isn't successful without the other benefitting. They compromise with each other so as to create win-wins.

So I've asked you quite a few times what's your evidence that ESPN oppose the addition of California Stanford and SMU and every time you've evaded the question. You were very critical of @buddy because you felt he was only "giving his thoughts" rather than "the facts", but how is what you're doing any different?

So do you have anything to support your contention that ESPN opposed adding those teams or are we done?

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

So I've asked you quite a few times what's your evidence that ESPN oppose the addition of California Stanford and SMU and every time you've evaded the question. You were very critical of @buddy because you felt he was only "giving his thoughts" rather than "the facts", but how is what you're doing any different?

So do you have anything to support your contention that ESPN opposed adding those teams or are we done?

I guess you're too lazy, so here you go (and note the part about conference autonomy and ESPN not wanting to dictate):

Reports indicating ESPN was hesitant about Atlantic Coast Conference (ACC) expansion stemmed from concerns over added costs and the value of new members, as ESPN aimed to avoid paying higher, prorated fees for schools that might not significantly increase viewership. Despite rumors, ESPN ultimately exercised its option to extend its media rights contract with the ACC through 2036.
Key points regarding the reports of ESPN and ACC expansion:
Financial Concerns: Reports suggested ESPN was not enthusiastic about adding more schools at a prorated price, as they were focused on maintaining profitability rather than expanding the conference's footprint.
Expansion Autonomy: Contrary to some narratives that ESPN drives all realignment, ESPN executives previously indicated they were careful not to be part of the expansion discussion, leaving those decisions to the conferences.
Contradictory Rumors: While some rumors in early 2024 suggested ESPN might not renew its contract due to expansion, by January 2025, it was confirmed that ESPN exercised its option to extend the partnership through 2036.
Stability Over Expansion: The focus shifted from expansion to stability, with the extension intended to keep the league secure amid legal challenges from Florida State and Clemson.
Shift in Strategy: The extension was partly driven by the ACC's commitment to creating better "marquee" matchups in football and men's basketball, utilizing top brands like Notre Dame.
Ultimately, the, reports that ESPN did not want expansion appear to have been based on financial caution, which was resolved by the long-term, stable extension of their existing media rights partnership.

 

[CL82]

I guess you're too lazy, so here you go (and note the part about conference autonomy and ESPN not wanting to dictate):

Reports indicating ESPN was hesitant about Atlantic Coast Conference (ACC) expansion stemmed from concerns over added costs and the value of new members, as ESPN aimed to avoid paying higher, prorated fees for schools that might not significantly increase viewership. Despite rumors, ESPN ultimately exercised its option to extend its media rights contract with the ACC through 2036.
Key points regarding the reports of ESPN and ACC expansion:
Financial Concerns: Reports suggested ESPN was not enthusiastic about adding more schools at a prorated price, as they were focused on maintaining profitability rather than expanding the conference's footprint.
Expansion Autonomy: Contrary to some narratives that ESPN drives all realignment, ESPN executives previously indicated they were careful not to be part of the expansion discussion, leaving those decisions to the conferences.
Contradictory Rumors: While some rumors in early 2024 suggested ESPN might not renew its contract due to expansion, by January 2025, it was confirmed that ESPN exercised its option to extend the partnership through 2036.
Stability Over Expansion: The focus shifted from expansion to stability, with the extension intended to keep the league secure amid legal challenges from Florida State and Clemson.
Shift in Strategy: The extension was partly driven by the ACC's commitment to creating better "marquee" matchups in football and men's basketball, utilizing top brands like Notre Dame.
Ultimately, the, reports that ESPN did not want expansion appear to have been based on financial caution, which was resolved by the long-term, stable extension of their existing media rights partnership.

So you are living and dying on an AI summary of "contradictory rumors"? Really? That's it You really should read before you post.

Now see if you can actually find an actual objection by ESPN. We'll wait.

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

So you are living and dying on an AI summary of "contradictory rumors"? Really? That's it You really should read before you post.

Now see if you can actually find an actual objection by ESPN. We'll wait.

I'm done with you on this. I bring actual reported info and you ignore it. You bring just opinion.

 

[CL82]

I'm done with you on this. I bring actual reported info and you ignore it. You bring just opinion.

No, you brought in an AI summary of rumors which conflicted with each other. Again, it's probably best if you actually read what AI generates before you post it.

 

[buddy]

ESPN has directly prevented UConn from admission to the Big 12 and the ACC. That is the fact.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

UConn should be doing everything it can to push football to split from the NCAA. That is one of the most realistic paths to a better conference situation.

 

[Kolumbo]

saw this article, skimmed through and read the last paragraph

For college football's future, be careful to understand how it grew and succeeded​

"So much of the sport's uniqueness comes from its open-endedness, its spirit of manifest destiny. This is a regional sport that became national because so much of the nation fell in love with it and wanted to become awesome at it. And that spirit appears to be the thing some are most willing to eliminate. Well, to hell with that. We should be doing everything we can to support and enable anyone ambitious enough to give top-flight college football a shot. The moment we officially close our doors to potential usurpers is the day college football ceases to be college football."

For college football's future, be careful to understand how it grew and succeeded

The sport's manifest destiny opened doors for Indiana and others. Consolidating power and access could eliminate the thrill of that growth.

www.espn.com

 

[Kolumbo]

By giving ESPN tax breaks so they can support P4 Conferences keeping UConn out.

The flip side is all those espn employees are financially supporting UConn and the great state of Connecticut. They should be rallying at espn to bring UConn to a P4 conference to help relieve some of the state and local tax pressures. Even the various tax breaks espn receives ultimately hurts its own employees because Bristol needs more state funding.

That Opt In is unlikely because too many P4 schools want to milk the revenues from their big TV contracts without spending the money. Why would they go along with something that will cut their revenue? They don’t care if they lose a conference game 70-7.

We are going to see just how much fans will put up with a terrible product on the field in football. Maybe fans want to see endless unholy blowouts, we will find out.

Now back to D1.

They would have to make the Opt-In cost prohibitive as ScottVib suggested. No more free lunches. No more sitting at the high rollers table without anteing up bcu.

Indiana isn't really a Cinderella as some say. They just realized big money brings Ws.

This data is from 2024. Indiana is #13 on the list
All P4 programs until you get to:
#50 UConn
#52 UCF now in the Big 12
#55 Cincy now in the Big 12
#56 Houston now in the Big 12
from here on out all kinds of G6

NCAA Finances: Revenue & Expenses by School - USA TODAY

Which are the most profitable college athletic programs in the country? See a ranked listed, including total revenue and expenses. Brought to you by USA TODAY.

sportsdata.usatoday.com

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

The flip side is all those espn employees are financially supporting UConn and the great state of Connecticut. They should be rallying at espn to bring UConn to a P4 conference to help relieve some of the state and local tax pressures. Even the various tax breaks espn receives ultimately hurts its own employees because Bristol needs more state funding.


Now back to D1.

They would have to make the Opt-In cost prohibitive as ScottVib suggested. No more free lunches. No more sitting at the high rollers table without anteing up bcu.

Indiana isn't really a Cinderella as some say. They just realized big money brings Ws.

This data is from 2024. Indiana is #13 on the list
All P4 programs until you get to:
#50 UConn
#52 UCF now in the Big 12
#55 Cincy now in the Big 12
#56 Houston now in the Big 12
from here on out all kinds of G6

NCAA Finances: Revenue & Expenses by School - USA TODAY

Which are the most profitable college athletic programs in the country? See a ranked listed, including total revenue and expenses. Brought to you by USA TODAY.

sportsdata.usatoday.com

The data really shows how UConn is punching above it's weight class. Great coaches and AD focus showing out. If you added say another 30m of TV media revenue due to being in a P* conference and then another 10m of added ticket sales (football-driven) and sponsorships, we'd be right up in the middle/top-middle of the P* schools revenue wise (and every dollar would be spent on football-related investment as would be unofficially and likely officially required by the conference we'd land in). Sign me up.

 

[CL82]

The flip side is all those espn employees are financially supporting UConn and the great state of Connecticut. They should be rallying at espn to bring UConn to a P4 conference to help relieve some of the state and local tax pressures. Even the various tax breaks espn receives ultimately hurts its own employees because Bristol needs more state funding.


Now back to D1.

They would have to make the Opt-In cost prohibitive as ScottVib suggested. No more free lunches. No more sitting at the high rollers table without anteing up bcu.

Indiana isn't really a Cinderella as some say. They just realized big money brings Ws.

This data is from 2024. Indiana is #13 on the list
All P4 programs until you get to:
#50 UConn
#52 UCF now in the Big 12
#55 Cincy now in the Big 12
#56 Houston now in the Big 12
from here on out all kinds of G6

NCAA Finances: Revenue & Expenses by School - USA TODAY

Which are the most profitable college athletic programs in the country? See a ranked listed, including total revenue and expenses. Brought to you by USA TODAY.

sportsdata.usatoday.com

Keep in mind that those P4 programs financials are inflated by receiving P4 distributions. If Connecticut were to join a P4 conference, it would jump to the high middle of the list and not be at the end.

 

[ZooCougar]

What’s amazing is that Connecticut gives money and breaks to ESPN and then ESPN gives money to schools that won’t even let us into the party.

 

[buddy]

The flip side is all those espn employees are financially supporting UConn and the great state of Connecticut. They should be rallying at espn to bring UConn to a P4 conference to help relieve some of the state and local tax pressures. Even the various tax breaks espn receives ultimately hurts its own employees because Bristol needs more state funding.


Now back to D1.

They would have to make the Opt-In cost prohibitive as ScottVib suggested. No more free lunches. No more sitting at the high rollers table without anteing up bcu.

Indiana isn't really a Cinderella as some say. They just realized big money brings Ws.

This data is from 2024. Indiana is #13 on the list
All P4 programs until you get to:
#50 UConn
#52 UCF now in the Big 12
#55 Cincy now in the Big 12
#56 Houston now in the Big 12
from here on out all kinds of G6

NCAA Finances: Revenue & Expenses by School - USA TODAY

Which are the most profitable college athletic programs in the country? See a ranked listed, including total revenue and expenses. Brought to you by USA TODAY.

sportsdata.usatoday.com

I hate to keep harping on this and I may have irrational hatred for ESPN, but I do agree that 4000 employees at Bristol could be a boon to the economy of the area. Nonetheless, ESPN is paying these conferences and controls the purstrings of distribution of moneys to these conferences and could have gotten a seat for UConn at the table, but did not. And I would say intentionally so.

 

[Rufus]

The flip side is all those espn employees are financially supporting UConn and the great state of Connecticut. They should be rallying at espn to bring UConn to a P4 conference to help relieve some of the state and local tax pressures. Even the various tax breaks espn receives ultimately hurts its own employees because Bristol needs more state funding.


Now back to D1.

They would have to make the Opt-In cost prohibitive as ScottVib suggested. No more free lunches. No more sitting at the high rollers table without anteing up bcu.

Indiana isn't really a Cinderella as some say. They just realized big money brings Ws.

This data is from 2024. Indiana is #13 on the list
All P4 programs until you get to:
#50 UConn
#52 UCF now in the Big 12
#55 Cincy now in the Big 12
#56 Houston now in the Big 12
from here on out all kinds of G6

NCAA Finances: Revenue & Expenses by School - USA TODAY

Which are the most profitable college athletic programs in the country? See a ranked listed, including total revenue and expenses. Brought to you by USA TODAY.

sportsdata.usatoday.com

Not that it changes anything in the grand scheme of things, but this list only includes the public universities. Notre Dame, USC, etc. are not on it, nor are any of the Big East schools outside UConn.

 

[Kolumbo]

I hate to keep harping on this and I may have irrational hatred for ESPN, but I do agree that 4000 employees at Bristol could be a boon to the economy of the area. Nonetheless, ESPN is paying these conferences and controls the purstrings of distribution of moneys to these conferences and could have gotten a seat for UConn at the table, but did not. And I would say intentionally so.

4,000 could be a boon to the economy? I'm not sure you understand the cost of living in CT and how much we actually spend. And espn pays very well, many high paying jobs to those employees.

don't get me wrong, I hate espn as much as the next guy. But the economic impact of espn being based in CT far outweighs any tax benefit the company receives. And the difference is yuge

 

[buddy]

I live in Manhattan. Doubt the cost of living in Ct beats the cost of living here. Cannot even go home without paying a toll!

 

[GampelPBA]

Meh. (or do all this and we go to ACC):

Four bold NCAA college conference realignment ideas: Shrink SEC, revive Big East

If we put aside dollars and cents and made choices based on fit rather than TV deals, which realignment moves would we rewind? Here are four no-brainers.

www.usatoday.com

Make Big East basketball great again
Most realignment moves are designed with football (and money) in mind, but there’s no conference I miss more than the Big East that made "Big Monday" college basketball appointment viewing. While some old-timers most adoringly remember the Big East for its nine-member era of Patrick Ewing, Ed Pinckney and Chris Mullin in the 1980s, I have fondness for the bigger iteration of the Big East in the 2000s and early 2010s. I’m shuttling West Virginia and Cincinnati back to the Big East. I’m also moving Boston College, Syracuse, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh and Louisville out of the ACC and into their rightful home, the Big East. How’s it gone for those five schools in the ACC? The Big East looks better all the time. As part of my Big East reassembly, it’s back to the Big East for Rutgers, too. What’s a school in Piscataway, New Jersey, doing in the Big Ten? Those eight schools I’ve plucked from the Big 12, ACC and Big Ten will join Connecticut, Georgetown, Providence, St. John’s, Seton Hall, Villanova, DePaul and Marquette in a 16-team Big East built on basketball. Set your DVR for "Big Monday."

 

[NE Football]

GE leveraged a 2015 $1.5 billion tax hike in Connecticut to spark a competitive bidding war between states. CEO Jeff Immelt issued a public ultimatum, forcing Connecticut Governor Dannel Malloy to hold emergency sessions to walk back corporate tax increases, while GE simultaneously held "closed-door" negotiations with over 40 potential locations.
The Negotiating Outcomes
Massachusetts: Won the bid by offering a $145 million incentive package ($120 million in state grants and $25 million in city property tax relief). They also provided "concierge services," including expedited infrastructure upgrades and relocation assistance.
Connecticut: Despite offering to match incentives and roll back tax changes, they lost the headquarters. GE cited the state's "unpredictable" fiscal climate and a lack of the "digital talent ecosystem" found in Boston.
GE ultimately moved its headquarters to Boston's Seaport District in 2016.

Location, location, location always wins out, thus BCU is in the ACC and we are not.

 

[JwittersPAC]

The flip side is all those espn employees are financially supporting UConn and the great state of Connecticut. They should be rallying at espn to bring UConn to a P4 conference to help relieve some of the state and local tax pressures. Even the various tax breaks espn receives ultimately hurts its own employees because Bristol needs more state funding.


Now back to D1.

They would have to make the Opt-In cost prohibitive as ScottVib suggested. No more free lunches. No more sitting at the high rollers table without anteing up bcu.

Indiana isn't really a Cinderella as some say. They just realized big money brings Ws.

This data is from 2024. Indiana is #13 on the list
All P4 programs until you get to:
#50 UConn
#52 UCF now in the Big 12
#55 Cincy now in the Big 12
#56 Houston now in the Big 12
from here on out all kinds of G6

NCAA Finances: Revenue & Expenses by School - USA TODAY

Which are the most profitable college athletic programs in the country? See a ranked listed, including total revenue and expenses. Brought to you by USA TODAY.

sportsdata.usatoday.com

I would be interested to know how much of the revenue for most schools include subsidies from the university or state to support the athletic program. For example UConn received $32 million in subsidies from the state that is included in the revenue numbers.

 

[SU1968]

Meh. (or do all this and we go to ACC):

Four bold NCAA college conference realignment ideas: Shrink SEC, revive Big East

If we put aside dollars and cents and made choices based on fit rather than TV deals, which realignment moves would we rewind? Here are four no-brainers.

www.usatoday.com

Make Big East basketball great again
Most realignment moves are designed with football (and money) in mind, but there’s no conference I miss more than the Big East that made "Big Monday" college basketball appointment viewing. While some old-timers most adoringly remember the Big East for its nine-member era of Patrick Ewing, Ed Pinckney and Chris Mullin in the 1980s, I have fondness for the bigger iteration of the Big East in the 2000s and early 2010s. I’m shuttling West Virginia and Cincinnati back to the Big East. I’m also moving Boston College, Syracuse, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh and Louisville out of the ACC and into their rightful home, the Big East. How’s it gone for those five schools in the ACC? The Big East looks better all the time. As part of my Big East reassembly, it’s back to the Big East for Rutgers, too. What’s a school in Piscataway, New Jersey, doing in the Big Ten? Those eight schools I’ve plucked from the Big 12, ACC and Big Ten will join Connecticut, Georgetown, Providence, St. John’s, Seton Hall, Villanova, DePaul and Marquette in a 16-team Big East built on basketball. Set your DVR for "Big Monday."

The football schools will NEVER return to a Big East Conference where the Catholic 7 have control over membership and play their sports on the cheap.

 

[Kolumbo]

I would be interested to know how much of the revenue for most schools include subsidies from the university or state to support the athletic program. For example UConn received $32 million in subsidies from the state that is included in the revenue numbers.

That data shows Total Revenue, Total Expenses, Total Allocated, Percent Allocate. Here is the methodology but I'm no expert on what it all means or if it provides what you are looking for

Methodology for 2022 NCAA athletics department revenue-and-expense database

The data, updated for 2022, are based on the revenue and expense reports collected from 230 public schools.

www.usatoday.com

 

[JwittersPAC]

That data shows Total Revenue, Total Expenses, Total Allocated, Percent Allocate. Here is the methodology but I'm no expert on what it all means or if it provides what you are looking for

Methodology for 2022 NCAA athletics department revenue-and-expense database

The data, updated for 2022, are based on the revenue and expense reports collected from 230 public schools.

www.usatoday.com

Thank you for the information. The allocated revenue is revenue associated with State/College subsidies and student fees. This is not revenue generated by the team to play the sport. For example in the amount from these sources for UConn was 55.88% of the total revenue of $99 million in the article. UConn number has dropped to around $37 million of the total revenue from these sources for Fiscal 2024.

Since these numbers are before revenue share (P4 schools is $20.5 million), I would expect all P4 schools expenses to increase by $20.5 million in the current year financials. Conclusion - most colleges will need to make cuts in athletic budgets to pay for the revenue share.

 

[uconnfan68]

Location, location, location always wins out, thus BCU is in the ACC and we are not.

No one controls Chestnut Hill like BC.