Restructuring Division 1

[shizzle787]

I believe that there is a lot of pressure on the NCAA right now from all directions: the large schools, lawyers, the government, etc.

I also believe that too many schools are fighting for the same prizes (NCAA tournament and CFP), and it has become obvious that both Division 1 and FBS need to shrink and/or change.

Don't get me wrong: I do believe that Division 1 should be a big tent and that the NCAA tournament should still include schools from smaller conferences, but there is a lot of bloat.

So here is what I propose:

For basketball: splitting Division 1 into two- Division 1 and Division 1A: two entirely different subdivisions with different championships.

Division 1 would consist of 20 conferences:

SEC, Big Ten, Big 12, Big East, ACC,
Pac-12, A-10, WCC, MW, MVC, American,
Ivy, C-USA, CAA, MAC, Big Sky, Big West,
Sun Belt, Southern, and UAC

These 20 leagues include the 10 FBS leagues plus arguably the 10 best non-FBS leagues.

There are three realignment moves that would complete the 20 leagues:

The UAC would add Stephen F. Austin and McNeese to get to 11 schools.
The MVC would add the Dakota 4 and Saint Thomas to get to 16 schools.
The CAA would add Army and Navy.

These 20 leagues would form their own subdivision of 255 schools. They would continue to play in March Madness in a 64-team format (the power schools would like 64 as there will be 44 at-large bids, and they don't want to deal with the increased cost of play-in games if they get the 44 at-larges as in the current proposed 76-team field).

To be apart of this subdivision, all schools would agree to participate in revenue sharing permanently, the NCAA would continue to run the championship, but the monies would be skewed toward the five major conferences.

The Division 1-A subdivision would feature 109 programs across 11 conferences (the three remaining Summit schools would find homes in one of the other leagues in this subdivision).

The conferences:

MEAC
SWAC
NEC
OVC
Southland
Patriot
Horizon
Big South
Atlantic Sun
MAAC
America East

These schools would have a 24-team national championship with 11 automatic bids and 13 at-large bids. These schools would not be eligible for the Division 1 championship known as March Madness.

Division 1 schools would be allowed to play up to two Division 1A schools per year.

Division 1A schools would still be Division 1 in all other sports (except football).

For football: three subdivisions.

1: Big Ten, SEC, Big 12, ACC, Notre Dame, UConn, Pac-12, MW, American (100 schools)

16-team CFP with a 5+11 format (all four P4 champs are guaranteed in).
All schools must agree to spend at least $6 million per year on football revenue sharing.

1A: Sun Belt, MAC, C-USA, MVFC, Big Sky, CAA, Southland, Southern, UAC, Ivy, Patriot (117 schools)

24-team championship with 11 automatic bids and 13 at-large bids

1AA: MEAC, NEC, Merrimack, OVC-Big South, Pioneer, SWAC (48 schools)

8-team championship with 3 automatic bids (no automatic bid for SWAC or MEAC) and 5 at-larges

---

 

[ScottVib]

If there is further reclassification, I would expect whatever level that includes the current P4 schools will be considerably smaller than your suggestion. If the Big Ten & SEC move on, they may drag the ACC and Big XII with them, perhaps (if they're feeling magnanimous) even the American or Pac-12; but they aren't interested in sharing with the Big West, the WCC, Big South, etc. Further reclassification will be about restricting the size of the top level dramatically and consolidating the wealth. It's not about going from 136 to 100 in football and 365 to 255 in basketball... it's about centralizing the money with the handful of schools that produce it (and if they can even cut out some of the marginal earners thereby giving themselves a slightly bigger piece of the pie even better).

My suspicion... if you are concerned about lawsuit... you make it an opt-in but also cost prohibitive to do so without the backing of a conference that has sufficient revenues (or a sufficient donor base) to make it work. I.E. to play in the top-level; it takes the full 20.5M revenue sharing, fully funding XX sports; including fully funding 105 scholarships for football.

Doing that will likely be enough to trim the fat the P4 (and really the Big Ten and SEC) want to cut out... even if other schools wanted to opt-in, they'd either end up independent in the top-tier (and likely without a TV contract to generate the necessary revenue; meaning they better have a massive group of donors) or having found a conference home somewhere to help them with the revenues (in other words have been invited to the club). Even if the new basketball tournament goes back to 48 teams they'll control the revenue and their tournament would dwarf any leftover tournament, further starving the NCAA of revenue for the rest of the schools/divisions.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

That Opt In is unlikely because too many P4 schools want to milk the revenues from their big TV contracts without spending the money. Why would they go along with something that will cut their revenue? They don’t care if they lose a conference game 70-7.

We are going to see just how much fans will put up with a terrible product on the field in football. Maybe fans want to see endless unholy blowouts, we will find out.

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

I believe that there is a lot of pressure on the NCAA right now from all directions: the large schools, lawyers, the government, etc.

I also believe that too many schools are fighting for the same prizes (NCAA tournament and CFP), and it has become obvious that both Division 1 and FBS need to shrink and/or change.

Don't get me wrong: I do believe that Division 1 should be a big tent and that the NCAA tournament should still include schools from smaller conferences, but there is a lot of bloat.

So here is what I propose:

For basketball: splitting Division 1 into two- Division 1 and Division 1A: two entirely different subdivisions with different championships.

Division 1 would consist of 20 conferences:

SEC, Big Ten, Big 12, Big East, ACC,
Pac-12, A-10, WCC, MW, MVC, American,
Ivy, C-USA, CAA, MAC, Big Sky, Big West,
Sun Belt, Southern, and UAC

These 20 leagues include the 10 FBS leagues plus arguably the 10 best non-FBS leagues.

There are three realignment moves that would complete the 20 leagues:

The UAC would add Stephen F. Austin and McNeese to get to 11 schools.
The MVC would add the Dakota 4 and Saint Thomas to get to 16 schools.
The CAA would add Army and Navy.

These 20 leagues would form their own subdivision of 255 schools. They would continue to play in March Madness in a 64-team format (the power schools would like 64 as there will be 44 at-large bids, and they don't want to deal with the increased cost of play-in games if they get the 44 at-larges as in the current proposed 76-team field).

To be apart of this subdivision, all schools would agree to participate in revenue sharing permanently, the NCAA would continue to run the championship, but the monies would be skewed toward the five major conferences.

The Division 1-A subdivision would feature 109 programs across 11 conferences (the three remaining Summit schools would find homes in one of the other leagues in this subdivision).

The conferences:

MEAC
SWAC
NEC
OVC
Southland
Patriot
Horizon
Big South
Atlantic Sun
MAAC
America East

These schools would have a 24-team national championship with 11 automatic bids and 13 at-large bids. These schools would not be eligible for the Division 1 championship known as March Madness.

Division 1 schools would be allowed to play up to two Division 1A schools per year.

Division 1A schools would still be Division 1 in all other sports (except football).

For football: three subdivisions.

1: Big Ten, SEC, Big 12, ACC, Notre Dame, UConn, Pac-12, MW, American (100 schools)

16-team CFP with a 5+11 format (all four P4 champs are guaranteed in).
All schools must agree to spend at least $6 million per year on football revenue sharing.

1A: Sun Belt, MAC, C-USA, MVFC, Big Sky, CAA, Southland, Southern, UAC, Ivy, Patriot (117 schools)

24-team championship with 11 automatic bids and 13 at-large bids

1AA: MEAC, NEC, Merrimack, OVC-Big South, Pioneer, SWAC (48 schools)

8-team championship with 3 automatic bids (no automatic bid for SWAC or MEAC) and 5 at-larges

---

From a funding standpoint, how would the 11 conferences/1A be able to afford conducting their basketball tournament (i.e. would monies still flow from March Madness to them?)?

 

[baggerbob]

From a funding standpoint, how would the 11 conferences/1A be able to afford conducting their basketball tournament (i.e. would monies still flow from March Madness to them?)?

If the big schools were to break away they would have there own tournament and March
Madness and the NCAA would not exist.

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

If the big schools were to break away they would have there own tournament and March
Madness and the NCAA would not exist.

That's my impression, too. Trying to understand how Shizzle's model would work.

 

[CTBballfan243]

If they restructure it will look more like this:

Div 1 - SEC B1G, ACC, B12

Div 1a - Nobody cares because you're not in DIV 1.

 

[JwittersPAC]

If they restructure it will look more like this:

Div 1 - SEC B1G, ACC, B12

Div 1a - Nobody cares because you're not in DIV 1.

My guess Division 1 will not include all the teams that are currently in SEC, BIG, ACC, B12. For example I could see the group not including teams like BC, Wake Forest, Northwestern, Rutgers, Syracuse, Cal, etc.

 

[pj]

That's my impression, too. Trying to understand how Shizzle's model would work.

There would probably still be an NCAA, but it would handle only the amateur sports. The pro sports (high level football & basketball) would be outside the NCAA.

This assumes it's still possible to have an amateur sport.

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

There would probably still be an NCAA, but it would handle only the amateur sports. The pro sports (high level football & basketball) would be outside the NCAA.

This assumes it's still possible to have an amateur sport.

Agreed. The biggest issue is how the money would or wouldn't flow from the upper echelon to the lower echelon. Because if it wasn't, then somehow the lower echelon would have to plug the revenue gap that Mar h Madndss currently does. Without it, lower D1, D2, and D3 sports would be at peril. Will the power conferences want all that potential blood on its hands?? I think Congress would really get involved if that was ever a potential... It's going to be really interesting to see how this unfolds.

 

[Patman]

There would probably still be an NCAA, but it would handle only the amateur sports. The pro sports (high level football & basketball) would be outside the NCAA.

This assumes it's still possible to have an amateur sport.

there's no such thing as collegiate amateur sports anymore. Why would the AACN not also be subject to the same laws and court orders?

There's only stuff that people don't want to pay for. The chess team is likely not going to get outside money, same for the quiz bowl team, etc. But you can't also prohibit them taking money either.

 

[hank970]

My guess Division 1 will not include all the teams that are currently in SEC, BIG, ACC, B12. For example I could see the group not including teams like BC, Wake Forest, Northwestern, Rutgers, Syracuse, Cal, etc.

Even when guessing, there's a difference between will not and would not.

A year ago, you'd have included Vanderbilt on that list, if only in the etc. category. But then a new season rolls around, and Vandy shows signs of life. So, at one time or another, have all of the schools you identified. Every dog has his day.

 

[JwittersPAC]

Even when guessing, there's a difference between will not and would not.

A year ago, you'd have included Vanderbilt on that list, if only in the etc. category. But then a new season rolls around, and Vandy shows signs of life. So, at one time or another, have all of the schools you identified. Every dog has his day.

I picked schools that appear not wanting to play NIL/revenue game and do not have big fan bases.

 

[UC1995]

Agreed. The biggest issue is how the money would or wouldn't flow from the upper echelon to the lower echelon. Because if it wasn't, then somehow the lower echelon would have to plug the revenue gap that Mar h Madndss currently does. Without it, lower D1, D2, and D3 sports would be at peril. Will the power conferences want all that potential blood on its hands?? I think Congress would really get involved if that was ever a potential... It's going to be really interesting to see how this unfolds.

as a parent of a D3 football player you need to understand that they get little to no support from the NCAA. Most schools budgets are small while other is shoe string. For the playoffs they won’t even help with plane fare making ridiculous matchups.

D3 is regional sport outside playoffs and won’t be affected by any contraction of D1. What we do see is most big academic schools (Washington and Lee, John’s Hopkins, NESCAC schools) have their recruits (capped classes) by January.

Most others are scrambling to fill out rosters since most schools over recruit to fill dorm rooms. We will see more schools closing do to lower numbers of kids in college then what happens at D1.

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

as a parent of a D3 football player you need to understand that they get little to no support from the NCAA. Most schools budgets are small while other is shoe string. For the playoffs they won’t even help with plane fare making ridiculous matchups.

D3 is regional sport outside playoffs and won’t be affected by any contraction of D1. What we do see is most big academic schools (Washington and Lee, John’s Hopkins, NESCAC schools) have their recruits (capped classes) by January.

Most others are scrambling to fill out rosters since most schools over recruit to fill dorm rooms. We will see more schools closing do to lower numbers of kids in college then what happens at D1.

I thought it was generally like what I found online:

"The NCAA Constitution guarantees Division III 3.18% of all Association revenue, the majority of which comes from the March Madness media rights deal.

Championship Funding: Roughly 75% to 80% of that money is used to pay for the travel, lodging, and operations of the 28 Division III national championships."

 

[uconnbill]

All of this will come to a head sooner or later.

 

[NE Football]

If the big schools were to break away they would have there own tournament and March
Madness and the NCAA would not exist.

They just don’t have enough teams to generate the interest that the current NCAA tournament commands.

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

They just don’t have enough teams to generate the interest that the current NCAA tournament commands.

I think the only thing missing would be the Cinderella effect, which is a large component. But in terms of the power 4/5 bb conferences, they'd have all the needed big brands.

 

[baggerbob]

They just don’t have enough teams to generate the interest that the current NCAA tournament commands.

If you had 4 leagues of 20 teams, split into 2 divisions in each league. You could pick up the good basketball schools that play football, and have 90% of the good teams and keep all the money generated.

 

[bobbyinaz]

They just don’t have enough teams to generate the interest that the current NCAA tournament commands.

SEC to Net NCAA Record $70 Million From March Madness Units

The NCAA tournament's unit system will pay the SEC roughly $70 million for March Madness success. The Big Ten was next, followed by the Big 12.

www.sportico.com

I’ve posted this before but it’s always going to be about the money. The SEC made the most money of any conference ever and it was only $70MM from a pie of $1BB.

As long as there is perceived money out there for the P4 to try and grab I believe the NCAA tournament will always be at risk.

 

[ScottVib]

I think the only thing missing would be the Cinderella effect, which is a large component. But in terms of the power 4/5 bb conferences, they'd have all the needed big brands.

Cinderella would be recast to be the Northwesterns or Penn States that don't have much history in the NCAA tournament; much the same way that Indiana was cast as a Cinderella in football last year, when they emerged out of nowhere. Outside of the first weekend, when they become a news-story, Cinderella typically becomes an anchor on the tournament ratings (see the 2023 final four with San Diego St, Miami & FAU with UConn and compare to 2024 with Purdue, NC State & Alabama; despite all the games being on TBS which has lower carriage, 2024 easily out-rated 2023 (on CBS))

 

[baggerbob]

Cinderella would be recast to be the Northwesterns or Penn States that don't have much history in the NCAA tournament; much the same way that Indiana was cast as a Cinderella in football last year, when they emerged out of nowhere. Outside of the first weekend, when they become a news-story, Cinderella typically becomes an anchor on the tournament ratings (see the 2023 final four with San Diego St, Miami & FAU with UConn and compare to 2024 with Purdue, NC State & Alabama; despite all the games being on TBS which has lower carriage, 2024 easily out-rated 2023 (on CBS))

The majority of basketball fans want to see good matchups. Blowouts lose interest really fast.