Reshaping of Basketball

[Dogdude]

I'm curious to see what effect the portal has on the WNBA long-term. The NBA was on to the fact very early on that their growth was tied to the college fans being invested in their team's players, and then following them to the NBA. The mystique of Chamberlain, Russel, Bird, Magic, Walton, Jabbar and so on made it so national fans could see what all the fuss was about bout that previously only the local college fans could see on a regular basis. There was a loyalty to the players that started in college. If players jump around, we as fans don't have any real attachment to them, and are thus less interested in watching them in the WNBA. Right now, we're in the midst of CC and now Paige's media transcendence. What happens when players bounce and there's none of that local attachment? I'm thinking there's a leveling-off of growth if it turns into a money grab for players. I know that for many of us, as we see these kids for four years, we almost think of them as surrogate grandkids. Is that going to happen when all they want is money and a quick publicity grab?

 

[huskeynut]

Before the portal, Geno took transfers. He was selective in who he wanted. They had to sit out a year. These transfers filled a specific need.

Now we have NIL and a player can sign on and play. No sitting out a year.

But it was so much more than just basketball talent. It's who the player is. It is about character and being a member of a team. In fact, he uses the same standards when he recruits freshmen.

You hear UConn players say it over and over - its a sisterhood. And look at the final four picture with the team and the alumni. They are all connected. This type of team unity will always be UConn.

 

[hookshot]

I'm curious to see what effect the portal has on the WNBA long-term. The NBA was on to the fact very early on that their growth was tied to the college fans being invested in their team's players, and then following them to the NBA. The mystique of Chamberlain, Russel, Bird, Magic, Walton, Jabbar and so on made it so national fans could see what all the fuss was about bout that previously only the local college fans could see on a regular basis. There was a loyalty to the players that started in college. If players jump around, we as fans don't have any real attachment to them, and are thus less interested in watching them in the WNBA. Right now, we're in the midst of CC and now Paige's media transcendence. What happens when players bounce and there's none of that local attachment? I'm thinking there's a leveling-off of growth if it turns into a money grab for players. I know that for many of us, as we see these kids for four years, we almost think of them as surrogate grandkids. Is that going to happen when all they want is money and a quick publicity grab?

Nope, not so much

 

[chj001]

That is such a great picture!!! I'm sure there is someone out there much more knowledgeable than myself who can name most of the current and former players in the photo. If so please list them row by row with perhaps their class year in parentheses. Thanks in advance.

 

[BBallF]

I thought it was still round. </snark>

Excellent observations. Dawn Staley follows a similar pattern at South Carolina, albeit with more movements in and out. As college sports continues its move towards pay-to-play, it will be interesting to see if the relative stability of these two leading programs continues to produce, if not championships, at least superior teams.

Right now the power in the employer-employee relationship has gone from 100% employer to something approaching the reverse. If the court battles about college athletes being employees (see Dartmouth men's basketball case) ends with some sort of collective bargaining agreement, don't be surprised to see a new equilibrium in which athletes are contractually bound to spend more than one year at a school in return for whatever compensation they are given. The students will thus have attained the same ‘freedom of movement’ that coaches have always had, in return for vaguely similar buyout provisions in their contracts.

It's desperately needed or at least something similar to it. This is just nonsense now.

 

[drweo]

Thank goodness. Based on the thread title I was worried they were moving to an oblong ball.

you beat me to that!

 

[Zonepress]

It's desperately needed or at least something similar to it. This is just nonsense now.

I thought it was still round. </snark>

Excellent observations. Dawn Staley follows a similar pattern at South Carolina, albeit with more movements in and out. As college sports continues its move towards pay-to-play, it will be interesting to see if the relative stability of these two leading programs continues to produce, if not championships, at least superior teams.

Right now the power in the employer-employee relationship has gone from 100% employer to something approaching the reverse. If the court battles about college athletes being employees (see Dartmouth men's basketball case) ends with some sort of collective bargaining agreement, don't be surprised to see a new equilibrium in which athletes are contractually bound to spend more than one year at a school in return for whatever compensation they are given. The students will thus have attained the same ‘freedom of movement’ that coaches have always had, in return for vaguely similar buyout provisions in their contracts.

if the players become contractually bound to the school, that would not limit the money they could get from outside sources for name, image, and likeness unless the player agreed to that in their
contract
if the Ncaa along with the schools try to put any limits on that they would clearly be in violation of antitrust statutes

The only way realistically to put any controls on any of this would be for the players to become employees unionize and have a contract between the NCAA/universities and the union similar to a professional leagues have
if that were to pass, I find it hard to believe any union would put limits on what outside income could be earned

the $ are not currently there to support much of a level of compensation from the universities for wbb

I think going forward there will be 3 types of successful programs
1- schools like uconn where the fan Support /brand and high profile will ensure lots of NIl opportunities similar to what many of the UConn players have taken advantage of
I suspect schools like Iowa with a huge fan base
South Carolina would be in that category
2-schools with one or more “big” donors
tcu obviously in that category and SMU is rumored to be there as well and I’ve heard from friends in California. The same is true at USC. have heard rumors that p mahomes was willing to fund texas tech if chavez committed
3- schools with already established “collectives”
lsu texas and the usual football schools with a history of paying players
the Sec is pretty much there

from where I sit what this means for uconn
Is that the pool of players that they can recruit will get even smaller than it is as guaranteed $ will get in the way
there is incredible value for the players in theUconn brand along with the best record of player development unfortunately that is primarily
due to GA
for me I have totally enjoyed the team the last two years and think there’s probably a few more years before the game mirrors the men’s side!
enjoy the treasure we have!!

 

[Sifaka]

The only way realistically to put any controls on any of this would be for the players to become employees unionize and have a contract between the NCAA/universities and the union similar to a professional leagues have
if that were to pass, I find it hard to believe any union would put limits on what outside income could be earned

We agree. My hope/prediction assumed
1) player status as employees determined by NLRB and courts
2) CBA of some sort
3) Personal NIL earnings are outside of the scope of contracts between students and schools.

With that as background, it’s probably worh noting that only the top 2-5% of players will have substantial personal NIL earnings in addition to what they may be paid by their respective universities.
The rest may be contractually “bound” to their initial school, while the very best of the best may be able to walk away, having g paid nominal penalties, and keep their personal NIL earnings arrangements.

 

[BBallF]

There is really no incentive for the players to unionize now. They have the best of both worlds. Now also, the schools can use operating revenue to pay their athletes. The players can make whatever they want on the outside, which will never be legally curtailed, and they are only signing scholarship type agreements which as I understand it, are only for a year or are easily dissolved by the player just leaving.

If there is a major scandal that erupts, there could be governmental regulation or if the players have a need to unionize at a given school, there can be a local CBA. I only see this getting worse however. There were 14 SEC schools in the men's tourney this year. 20 years ago there were 4 and 30 years ago there were 3. Not a coincidence.

I remember listening to the head of the NCAA Committee several years back discussing the portal and NIL and he was trying to spin this that it would somehow help the mid majors. Usual doublespeak that turned out to be completely wrong and showed a complete lack of understanding of the effects of the changes. If you are a mid major star after one or two years, you are usually gone to the land of a power conference and football dollars in very short shrift.

 

[Zonepress]

We agree. My hope/prediction assumed
1) player status as employees determined by NLRB and courts
2) CBA of some sort
3) Personal NIL earnings are outside of the scope of contracts between students and schools.

With that as background, it’s probably worh noting that only the top 2-5% of players will have substantial personal NIL earnings in addition to what they may be paid by their respective universities.
The rest may be contractually “bound” to their initial school, while the very best of the best may be able to walk away, having g paid nominal penalties, and keep their personal NIL earnings arrangements.

agreed the market place will ultimately determine
all of this

 

[oldude]

agreed the market place will ultimately determine
all of this

The marketplace is generally assumed to be an independent and rational force. There is nothing independent or rational about partisan alumni with deep pockets who will spend whatever it takes to secure a championship.

 

[BBallF]

There is currently a pending settlement of a case in US District Court brought by student athletes against the NCAA and there is also Federal legislation that is forming both of which will have transformative and apparently finalized effects on the current status quo which everyone agrees has to change. So no, the marketplace won't determine what happens. The Court and the Senate and Congress will determine what the marketplace will be. If there is anti-trust exemption, which you can expect, you can see roster limits, salary and/or team caps and other structural changes. There are many moving parts and it is difficult to get a clear explanation on line, but two ordinarily antithetical Senators, Cruz from Texas and Booker from New Jersey are driving the legislation.

 

[Jonathan14]

That is such a great picture!!! I'm sure there is someone out there much more knowledgeable than myself who can name most of the current and former players in the photo. If so please list them row by row with perhaps their class year in parentheses. Thanks in advance.

Might I direct you to the thread "Alumni at this year's Final Four," where @ConnMotors and others have provided many IDs on the alumnae in the photo from the championship game?