Refereeing...A Plea

[Bigpetunia]

One need not be a very astute observer of the women's game today to fully grasp the fact that what we Neanderthals used to refer to as "girl's basketball" is rapidly evolving into something of a free-for-all. 'Tain't no dainty affair out there! The banging that we routinely witness on the floor is obviously reflective of pre-planned strategies that, like it or not, have simply become a part of today's game. Obviously, this renders the job of those who officiate the games infinitely more difficult...they can, if they wish, legitimately call way more fouls than they do, or they can elect not to. In most games, early on in those contests, it is apparent that the refs have either subscribed to a "let them play" attitude or are determined to take control, sometimes too aggressively, by calling everything in sight...which tends, alas, to ruin such games.

Last night's game vs Syracuse offers a good example of what I mean. I thought Nika was sensational in defending Syracuse's top scorer. Now, did she tend to have her hands all over that kid? You betcha! Had they so desired, the refs could have fouled Nika out in the first half! She didn't play dirty...she doesn't do that. But, tough-as-nails as she is, she defended with unabashed aggression.

The "plea" in the title of this thread is as follows: I beg my fellow posters on this forum to desist from constantly whining about officiating. Do blown calls affect the outcomes of games one way or the other? Of course they do...but not nearly so much as missed open shots, egregious turnovers, failing to box out, etc. And the calls, good and/or bad, tend to inevitably go both ways. According to their fans, a rival program from a school in Indiana has never actually lost a basketball game. On those occasions when they're on the wrong end of the final score, the refs were clearly against 'em. I hope we don't fall prey to that mentality. Show me a game our favorite team lost because of the refs...I'l show you a litany of blown plays by our team that were the true culprits. The whining doesn't become us, and, frankly, it's misplaced!

 

[Kaizen]

Last night in the second half the refs called 4 UConn fouls in 32 secs time range.
Can anyone look the replay and check are those fouls are good calls or not?

 

[Geew1992]

One need not be a very astute observer of the women's game today to fully grasp the fact that what we Neanderthals used to refer to as "girl's basketball" is rapidly evolving into something of a free-for-all. 'Tain't no dainty affair out there! The banging that we routinely witness on the floor is obviously reflective of pre-planned strategies that, like it or not, have simply become a part of today's game. Obviously, this renders the job of those who officiate the games infinitely more difficult...they can, if they wish, legitimately call way more fouls than they do, or they can elect not to. In most games, early on in those contests, it is apparent that the refs have either subscribed to a "let them play" attitude or are determined to take control, sometimes too aggressively, by calling everything in sight...which tends, alas, to ruin such games.

Last night's game vs Syracuse offers a good example of what I mean. I thought Nika was sensational in defending Syracuse's top scorer. Now, did she tend to have her hands all over that kid? You betcha! Had they so desired, the refs could have fouled Nika out in the first half! She didn't play dirty...she doesn't do that. But, tough-as-nails as she is, she defended with unabashed aggression.

The "plea" in the title of this thread is as follows: I beg my fellow posters on this forum to desist from constantly whining about officiating. Do blown calls affect the outcomes of games one way or the other? Of course they do...but not nearly so much as missed open shots, egregious turnovers, failing to box out, etc. And the calls, good and/or bad, tend to inevitably go both ways. According to their fans, a rival program from a school in Indiana has never actually lost a basketball game. On those occasions when they're on the wrong end of the final score, the refs were clearly against 'em. I hope we don't fall prey to that mentality. Show me a game our favorite team lost because of the refs...I'l show you a litany of blown plays by our team that were the true culprits. The whining doesn't become us, and, frankly, it's misplaced!

Louder for the people in the back!

 

[stamfordhusky]

Last night the refs called 5 UConn fouls in 50 secs time range.
Can anyone look the replay and check are those fouls are good calls?

The problem is that 95% of posters on any messageboard don’t understand the rules and often can’t judge whether a foul call was correct or not.

 

[Rowdy831]

With a limited bench and Nika, KK and AE all playing very tough physical defense you don't want the officials to call the game close. Because UConn has a few very tough girls the fouls on them look egregious but really a foul is a foul as long as people aren't trying to hurt other players. UConn can play the physical game and have players smart enough not to go too far inside and take an open 10 footer instead.

 

[Bone Dog]

I agree. Refs rarely decide games. But they can sour them by allowing too much mayhem or by trying to prevent any contact. I prefer consistency. The games that go poorly on this score are painful to watch — like the Tennessee game last year which was called one way in the first quarter and another in the second. UConn ultimately won but it was frustrating to watch, including an absurd blown call on an intentional foul.

I also agree that the game has become a rugby scrum over the last decade or so. This happened all by itself with no particular policy to blame. But now is there anything the NCAA can do about it? And is it a good idea to try to change it? Geno sometimes complains that “freedom of movement” rules aren’t being enforced. But what would it cost to try to enforce them again now? Kids in high school are learning their hoops in part by emulating what they see happening on the next level. Changing this would take another decade, I suspect.

Could rules tweaks fix anything? Maybe, but these sometimes backfire, like the “point of emphasis” on traveling violations from a few years back. It’s more a nuisance than a positive change. The rule allowing technicals to be assessed on flops looks like another unproductive tweak.

 

[Husker Husky]

Topic relate, but not UConn: I didn't watch the Iowa game, but my friend, a retire coach texted me during the Iowa game ranting about just how horrible the reffing was. He isn't a Iowa supporter or detractor. I haven't spoken to him yet, but I'm curious if any boneyarders watched the game and have any input.

 

[Puppy Love]

There are three things that I find intolerable in the way games are called.

1. Inconsistency- you never know what you are going to get day to day and sometimes within a game.
2. Each league seems to have its own unwritten rules. A foul in one league is BAU in another.
3. Some players are allowed to get away with crap that would be a flagrant two on another player. Notice that I didn’t say star players. The hairpulling incident comes to mind.

These things are bad for the game.

OK, actually there is a fourth.

4. Announcers refuse to point out how bad some of the calls are and networks generally won’t show the replay.

 

[Forego]

The problem is that 95% of posters on any messageboard don’t understand the rules and often can’t judge whether a foul call was correct or not.

Looking through the other end of the telescope, fans might be a little more knowledgeable if the referee’s calls were more consistent: from referee to referee, from the start of a game until the end of a game, from game to game, and consistent for both of the teams.
The game has gotten faster and more physical and the referees have not kept pace.
Has anyone ever seen the statistics on each of the individual referees? For example, which referees call the most fouls? You only know how many fouls the officiating team for a particular game calls as a group. This is but one metric that is not tracked or at least not released to the public. Without individual statistics there can be no objective evaluation of performance.

 

[Padutch5]

I agree. Refs rarely decide games. But they can sour them by allowing too much mayhem or by trying to prevent any contact. I prefer consistency. The games that go poorly on this score are painful to watch — like the Tennessee game last year which was called one way in the first quarter and another in the second. UConn ultimately won but it was frustrating to watch, including an absurd blown call on an intentional foul.

I also agree that the game has become a rugby scrum over the last decade or so. This happened all by itself with no particular policy to blame. But now is there anything the NCAA can do about it? And is it a good idea to try to change it? Geno sometimes complains that “freedom of movement” rules aren’t being enforced. But what would it cost to try to enforce them again now? Kids in high school are learning their hoops in part by emulating what they see happening on the next level. Changing this would take another decade, I suspect.

Could rules tweaks fix anything? Maybe, but these sometimes backfire, like the “point of emphasis” on traveling violations from a few years back. It’s more a nuisance than a positive change. The rule allowing technicals to be assessed on flops looks like another unproductive tweak.

Many of us came to the women’s game over the past few years not only because of the excellence of UCONN but because the women’s game had a flow. The UCONN men’s team this year comes closest to the flow of the women’s game. However, as women’s coaches have teams with less talent have studied ways to improve their chances, the easiest route has become that of football in shorts, or in short, emulate the men’s game. I personally think this is to the detriment of the women’s game.
Actually i dont think rules tweaks are needed. Just enforce the rules as written. Just like major changes in rules in men’s basketball, it may take a year of adjustment, but the teams will adjust to the proper adjustment of the rules.
I dont know that it is feasible but public embarrassment of those officials who are either lazy or incompetent might also help. If we the season ticket holders can identify those refs who are consistently inconsistent or biased against a team, then the supervisor of officials should be able to deal with the problem. The women’s game has come a long way from half court basketball but i think there are danger signs.

 

[my2cents]

The rule that needs to change is the 5 fouls per quarter. In the men's game you shoot fouls at 7 fouls per half. So, the women, get no penalty for fouls 7,8, 9 per half. Allowing more fouls per half allows for more physical play with no downside.

 

[Pharos]

Many of us came to the women’s game over the past few years not only because of the excellence of UCONN but because the women’s game had a flow. The UCONN men’s team this year comes closest to the flow of the women’s game. However, as women’s coaches have teams with less talent have studied ways to improve their chances, the easiest route has become that of football in shorts, or in short, emulate the men’s game. I personally think this is to the detriment of the women’s game.
Actually i dont think rules tweaks are needed. Just enforce the rules as written. Just like major changes in rules in men’s basketball, it may take a year of adjustment, but the teams will adjust to the proper adjustment of the rules.
I dont know that it is feasible but public embarrassment of those officials who are either lazy or incompetent might also help. If we the season ticket holders can identify those refs who are consistently inconsistent or biased against a team, then the supervisor of officials should be able to deal with the problem. The women’s game has come a long way from half court basketball but i think there are danger signs.

"The UCONN men's team..." Agree. Poetry in motion (for the most part)
"...the easiest route..." combined with long benches and almost a "hockey line" substitution concept.
"public embarrassment..." Not the way out.
"don't think... tweaks are needed..." What about a limit of 4 fouls and you're out? What about starters get 4 or 5 and subs only get 2? Seems like there would be a way to disincentivize the "throw my body with abandon with no regard for..." approach.

 

[HuskyNan]

With a limited bench and Nika, KK and AE all playing very tough physical defense you don't want the officials to call the game close. Because UConn has a few very tough girls the fouls on them look egregious but really a foul is a foul as long as people aren't trying to hurt other players. UConn can play the physical game and have players smart enough not to go too far inside and take an open 10 footer instead.

This! The lack of calls benefitted the Huskies. A tightly called game would have been a disaster

 

[Cornell Lt]

In general the officiating is bearable overall, but when you see certain people assigned to a game you know beforehand how a game is going to be officiated. My hope is that the NCAA does not interject their agenda into this years final four assignments and instead assigns the most qualified officials to call the games. The games deserve it and anything like last year would be terrible for the game of Women's basketball.

 

[hoopsfan22]

In general the officiating is bearable overall, but when you see certain people assigned to a game you know beforehand how a game is going to be officiated. My hope is that the NCAA does not interject their agenda into this years final four assignments and instead assigns the most qualified officials to call the games. The games deserve it and anything like last year would be terrible for the game of Women's basketball.

What is the NCAA officiating agenda that leads them to not assigning the best refs to the tourney games? Why would the NCAA not want its best officials working these games?

 

[Cornell Lt]

Can't say the quite part out loud

 

[Padutch5]

What is the NCAA officiating agenda that leads them to not assigning the best refs to the tourney games? Why would the NCAA not want its best officials working these games?

I take it you haven’t been to many mens or women’s tournament games. TV is afraid to call out bad calls. You need to see some of the consistently bad refs in person to appreciate it.

 

[housekeys]

The "plea" in the title of this thread is as follows: I beg my fellow posters on this forum to desist from constantly whining about officiating. Do blown calls affect the outcomes of games one way or the other? Of course they do...but not nearly so much as missed open shots, egregious turnovers, failing to box out, etc. And the calls, good and/or bad, tend to inevitably go both ways. According to their fans, a rival program from a school in Indiana has never actually lost a basketball game. On those occasions when they're on the wrong end of the final score, the refs were clearly against 'em. I hope we don't fall prey to that mentality. Show me a game our favorite team lost because of the refs...I'l show you a litany of blown plays by our team that were the true culprits. The whining doesn't become us, and, frankly, it's misplaced!

Respectfully disagree.

If repeating fact (poor officiating) is whining, then you do not want change. Think of the whiners in the year 1776.

BTW, whining shows that the problem is 1) prevalent 2) non-UConn specific (Google last nights Iowa-WV game) 3) has not been addressed.

BTW, UConn has been a benefactor as well as a victim of poor officiating (Nika as you pointed out).

As a fan base, we are like all others. Attempting to mold our fan base into a "holier than thow" (vis-a-vis "whining") is comical, IMO.

You admit that things are deteriorating, and officiating is bad. Ignoring it is what you suggest, and you support this position by pointing out that players playing poorly is more a factor. Both can be true, and one can argue, that often, one causes the other (non call contact on a shot attempt, for example, will result in a miss).

I do agree, whiners can be annoying. I usually ignore annoyances, but that's me.

 

[WiseWillie]

One need not be a very astute observer of the women's game today to fully grasp the fact that what we Neanderthals used to refer to as "girl's basketball" is rapidly evolving into something of a free-for-all. 'Tain't no dainty affair out there! The banging that we routinely witness on the floor is obviously reflective of pre-planned strategies that, like it or not, have simply become a part of today's game. Obviously, this renders the job of those who officiate the games infinitely more difficult...they can, if they wish, legitimately call way more fouls than they do, or they can elect not to. In most games, early on in those contests, it is apparent that the refs have either subscribed to a "let them play" attitude or are determined to take control, sometimes too aggressively, by calling everything in sight...which tends, alas, to ruin such games.

Last night's game vs Syracuse offers a good example of what I mean. I thought Nika was sensational in defending Syracuse's top scorer. Now, did she tend to have her hands all over that kid? You betcha! Had they so desired, the refs could have fouled Nika out in the first half! She didn't play dirty...she doesn't do that. But, tough-as-nails as she is, she defended with unabashed aggression.

The "plea" in the title of this thread is as follows: I beg my fellow posters on this forum to desist from constantly whining about officiating. Do blown calls affect the outcomes of games one way or the other? Of course they do...but not nearly so much as missed open shots, egregious turnovers, failing to box out, etc. And the calls, good and/or bad, tend to inevitably go both ways. According to their fans, a rival program from a school in Indiana has never actually lost a basketball game. On those occasions when they're on the wrong end of the final score, the refs were clearly against 'em. I hope we don't fall prey to that mentality. Show me a game our favorite team lost because of the refs...I'l show you a litany of blown plays by our team that were the true culprits. The whining doesn't become us, and, frankly, it's misplaced!

I'll agree with most of your comments up to a point because as much as a missed shot, a turnover or other inefficiency can affect a game, the overzealous calling of fouls - or the opposite non-calls on egregious fouls - creates an uncertainty in the players minds (as well as the coaches) that can last for the entire contest as they are unsure how best to react when they get fouled with no call or they are called for a foul with no contact. A missed shot or rebound is a part of the game that all players understand from the time they are in junior high. Too many bad calls or no calls especially at the Div I level should not occur or have to be expected.

Granted, refs are human and make mistakes. But due to the increase in the women's game it is certainly not the 1970's "girls basketball". The young women playing in college today are bigger, stronger and the product of high school basketball that has grown immeasurably over the last 15 years. It's no longer a dainty sport. With all that said, officiating hasn't kept up and there needs to be better overall caliber of experienced officials.

Plus chasticing fans to refrain from whining won't do it. Exuberant fans will always react negatively to a call that goes against their team. That's sports and that's the way it has always been and will always be. That's just something we live - and frankly need to accept - when we attend or watch a game. It's one part of what makes sports frustrating sometimes but also darn entertaining whether on the winning side or the other side.

 

[housekeys]

What is the NCAA officiating agenda that leads them to not assigning the best refs to the tourney games? Why would the NCAA not want its best officials working these games?

The agenda is to popularize the game. Make it more interesting to a broader audience. This requires games to have drama. This requires the game to have competitive parity. This requires physicality be rewarded as it can neutralize the quality of play of one team over the other. This requires assigning Joe Vaszily to popular games (this last sentence is tongue in cheek).

 

[Cornell Lt]

I take it you haven’t been to many mens or women’s tournament games. TV is afraid to call out bad calls. You need to see some of the consistently bad refs in person to appreciate it

TV has actually begun to call out the bad officiating. You see it and hear it all the time now. Not saying that that's good or bad just saying the announcers call it when they see a bad job being done.

I've seen hundreds of NCAA basketball games, both men and women, up close and personal, hell I even get paid to be on the floor.

 

[Bone Dog]

I think some of the bigger name announcers will call out bad calls. Rebecca Lobo will do it. Remember last season in the Iowa game, she called out a blown call involving Aaliyah and Czinano. But I suspect the lesser known personalities are not as comfortable doing that.

 

[uconnfan68]

Topic relate, but not UConn: I didn't watch the Iowa game, but my friend, a retire coach texted me during the Iowa game ranting about just how horrible the reffing was. He isn't a Iowa supporter or detractor. I haven't spoken to him yet, but I'm curious if any boneyarders watched the game and have any input.

Comments I saw indicated Iowa was favored in most calls.

 

[stamfordhusky]

The rule that needs to change is the 5 fouls per quarter. In the men's game you shoot fouls at 7 fouls per half. So, the women, get no penalty for fouls 7,8, 9 per half. Allowing more fouls per half allows for more physical play with no downside.

Actually it would be no penalty for fouls 7 and 8. If there are 9 fouls, that means one quarter has to have at least 5 fouls and thus lead to FT's. Also note that fouls 7, 8, and 9 in the men's game only lead to one-and-one situations, while excessive women's fouls immediately lead to two FT's.

 

[Forego]

I apologize in advance that this dinosaur cannot copy and paste a URL into the Forum from my smart phone. However I would strongly recommend everyone to perform a search by typing in USA Today Nancy Armour. The article should appear at or near the top of the search results. A short title of the article is “griping over Iowa-West Virginia refs. It is refreshing to
see a member of the media who tells it like it is. Warning: if you are an Iowa or Caitlin Clark fan you will not enjoy parts of this article. I loved every word.