Recruiting ?

[UcMiami]

I just want to mention two words...not brought up in these conversations: Jamelle Elliott

Great power forward, didn't have to play center. Tough as nails as well.

 

[RSHERMVIKES]

Both Jamelle Elliott and Barbara Turner were listed as 6' Forwards and were 5'11" but who's really counting! They both proved that it isn't necessarily the size of the body but the size of the heart and talent that matters when talking about players! As the article above states Jamelle had both 1,000 points and 1,000 rebounds for her career and she like a lot of UCONN players that turned out to be "stars" was not heavily recruited other than by UCONN! Barbara Turner wound up having a better UCONN career than her more highly recruited classmate Ann Strother! Appearances rarely tell the whole story of what makes an athlete great or not! I would guess that Geno would say that Jamelle was one of his most favorite rags to riches success stories! He and CD have done a pretty good job of finding the gold nugget! See- Jamelle, Kara Wolters, Kelly Faris, Maria Conlon, Stefanie Dolson, Jessica Moore, Kelly Schumacher, Tiffany Hayes, among others!

 

[Wally East]

Wasn't UConn a defending champion in 1996 with Kara and Nykesha and Jenn and other talented players and how well did they do with their size that year or the year after???

Wow. Okay. Stop for just a second and think about what you wrote. Seriously think about it. What was different between '95 and '96 that I've already mentioned? Same team-oriented play! Same highly skilled players.

You are making my point for me: Kara + Jen + Nykesha = Final Four. Kara + Jen + Nykesha + Rebecca = Title.

You're making it really clear. I'm glad you understand.

(I'm going to ignore all the words you're putting in my mouth. I hope that's okay.)

 

[Wally East]

He and CD have done a pretty good job of finding the gold nugget! See- Jamelle, Kara Wolters, Kelly Faris, Maria Conlon, Stefanie Dolson, Jessica Moore, Kelly Schumacher, Tiffany Hayes, among others!

Well, to be fair: Hayes, Faris, and Dolson were McDonald's All-Americans.

 

[Buzzyboy]

Wow. Okay. Stop for just a second and think about what you wrote. Seriously think about it. What was different between '95 and '96 that I've already mentioned? Same team-oriented play! Same highly skilled players.

You are making my point for me: Kara + Jen + Nykesha = Final Four. Kara + Jen + Nykesha + Rebecca = Title.

You're making it really clear. I'm glad you understand.

(I'm going to ignore all the words you're putting in my mouth. I hope that's okay.)

Size means very little if you don't buy into the rest of the package. Skill and team first is so very much more important! South Carolina isn't going to win the title this year and they've got plenty of size. You're not responding to the many titles UConn won with no more size than they have this year and will have over the next few years EVEN if they don't sign anyone else over 6 foot tall. You started this all by acting as if it's essential that they get more size and though I agree that'd be nice, getting no other big kids won't make or break their hopes. What about the years they had big girls and went nowhere. Your fixation about size is strange. Maybe instead of a big front line what they need is to look for more scrappy Italian point guards because they won with Jennifer Rizzotti in 1995 and that's the formula for titles, right? They hadn't won a title before she came aboard so that means something. That outrageous logic is the same that you seem to be bringing to this discussion. This is my last response to this topic though I'm sure it won't be yours. Totally weird.

 

[Buzzyboy]

Great power forward, didn't have to play center. Tough as nails as well.

Wally seemed to like this (and I do as well) though it goes against his contention that size is totally essential to winning. Without Jamelle, who wasn't very tall, they would not have been undefeated and they likely wouldn't have won that title. She was about as big a factor in that run as were either Kara or Rebecca and heart had a lot to do with it.

 

[Buzzyboy]

Kelly was a good center, Kiah is a good center - they were both limited but they were 'centers' with size and the mentality to intimidate on defense - offense is not that important to have a 'center' but defensively you can be exposed if you don't have a player with some size, strength, and the mentality to defend post players. Morgan definitely has the strength and the mentality but she does not have enough size to be really effective against a Williams type center.

I think there's very little size difference between Morgan and Kiah but Kiah has longer arms and her defensive skills, particularly with her timing are amongst the best I've seen anywhere. I do know that it's only on the defensive side that you would say Kiah has a bit of an advantage over Morgan. All around, Morgan is the better player and I'm so thankful she is finally healthy. Kiah is appreciably a better a defensive player than Kelly Schumaker though Kelly was a nice solid player.

 

[Wally East]

Totally weird.

Oh goodness, you have spent a lot of energy constructing a lot of strawmen.

You've lost track of what I said originally:

It's not a coincidence that UConn's first title came with a 6'7 center and a 6'4 power forward.

Goodness. How startling and controversial. Geno has a 6'4 and a 6'7 combo up front, gets them a year of experience, and, adding in all of the other stuff Geno brings to the table when coaching, stuff exhibited when they went to the Final Four in '91, they win a title. Huh. SHOCKER.

I never said you can't win without size. It's weird that you think that.

 

[cferraro04]

Thanks for all the kudos that went out to Jamelle...she truly is / was an unsung heroine of that era...all the comments about her were spot-on.

 

[Sonny44]

And she was small - height-wise.

http://articles.courant.com/1996-02...ley-jamelle-elliott-uconn-coach-geno-auriemma

I like the part about the Canadian Moose Hunting.

 

[wire chief]

Asjha, Swin, Tamika, all 6'2", does it for me.

 

[UcMiami]

Asjha, Swin, Tamika, all 6'2", does it for me.

Agree! But you never wanted Swin to be the defensive center just like we don't want the 6'4" Stewart to take on that responsibility.

 

[Wally East]

This thread is taking about going forward what UCONN needs. You’re using an extreme example of 1991 when they had no height. How does the 1991 team you referred to compare to Butler, Boykins, KLS, Collier and Irwin? The fact is – the current UCONN team is miles ahead size-wise to your reference of the 1991 team.

So, you're saying it's great to have height. Glad we agree.

And what I’m saying is that we had Maya Moore – hardly a post player with size. As of right now considered the greatest pf in UCONN History. Isn’t she?

Small forward. Maya could play the 4 just as Diana could also post-up but it was not the optimal situation.

but this thread 1ts 1t sentence said we NEED to add posts as a top priority. If we could win two titls with 6’ 1 Maya at pf and Tina’s backup – McLaren was what 6’2? We won two tiles with a frontline of 6’4, 6’2, 6’1 - - and what made them so great? It was basketballalso a lot of basketball SKILL. See my point?

Yes, you're point is that height is important. (And you understand that threads' topics often just meander, right?)

But UCONN has height going forward! That is the OP’s point.

Something I've never disagreed with.

 

[hussybulldog]

So it is a match up/game strategy issue rather than having tall center! 9having one does not hurt, of course.) You could assume you had Lobo on '91 team, the opponent team could have Grinner! Every year, you are playing different opponents, so the match up/strategy is more important. (Look how Grinner's last game against Louisville.) Just having a tall center without a supporting cast/bench player certainly would not work well either.

Oh heavens, no. Not at all Your mistake is that you're looking backward. Start from the beginning and move forward.

The '91 team had a 6'2 center, a 5'11 PF, a 5'10 SF/PG, a 5'10 SG, a 5'5 PG, and a 5'8 SG. Same team-oriented play. A really scrappy guard. A phenomenal guard/forward, too. (Now, no, I'm not saying Debbie Baer and Laura Lishness are equal to Jen and Nykesha, but that's who was there in '91 and while they weren't All-Americans, they were very good.) Same coach. What was different in '95, what was different. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.

That there were two All-American front-court players backstopping the defense for '95 team to the tune of more than 7 blocks per game and lead the team to the highest team RPG for one of Geno's teams is unimportant? Irrelevant? Hmm. Okay.

For me, I'm saying the All-American power forward and All-American center were a key to winning. Not the only reason the '95 team won the title, no, but, if Lobo or Wolters had been on the team in 1991, then THAT would've been their first title because the '91 team was *small*. See my point? If Lobo or Wolters had been on the '91 team, Bascom could've played PF and not had to guard the opposing center and gotten into foul trouble against the Burge twins and as a result spent most of the first half of national semi-final on the bench.

Lobo and Wolters allowed the '95 team to match-up with Tennessee's very tall and physical team. UConn definitely needed both of them. Just one would've left them short (pun intended, because HA! )

2000: I seem to remember *something* about someone recording, what was it, a championship-game record nine blocks? Was that something a 6'2 forward did? Or was it a 6'5 center? Huh, can't quite remember. (That team also had a 6'5 back-up center, too.)

Yes, you can win without height, obviously, and you can lose with it. But, it's easier to win with it.

Without height, it took the greatest backcourt in the game's history and 3 of the school's best forwards to win a title. With height? Two other very good players and two more good players.

 

[asuwish]

I don't agree with the "message" at all. Sure would love to have Lauren Cox etc but what we need is continued GREAT BASKETBALL PLAYERS. Superior team basketball players defeat size. There is such a paranoia about height. It was one of the most overrated things about the college game.

I'd much prefer to see another big time elite quick guard in case Nurse and "TheReaLDanger" get hurt if all things regarding the recruits were equal. But as slu said would love Cox and McCoy etc - and if they want to come - I got to have them. Not as much because of their size but because they are amazing, fabulous BASKETBALL PLAYERS from what I understand.

Notre Dame didn't have the greatest size last year. Tuck doesn't have a lot of size. Size can be so overrated. Griner won one title. One. One. In two of her NCAA defeats she wasn't defeated with size.

So you don’t think we should have at least 2 good post players. Having talented players should go without question, but you also need depth at the different positions. Last year Notre Dame had 5 players over 6’2”, and Arial Braker is listed at 6’1” and plays big. We had 3 last year and this year. Morgan at 6’2” is big and in a pinch can play the post. If foul trouble left us with Morgan at the 5, and Gabby at the 4 then it would cause concern against a good big front court. Sorry, but height is a fact of life in sports. A team of 5’10” front court players should struggle against a team of equally talent 6’4” front court players. Of course there are exceptions. I’m saying having at least 4 players with size is ideal. Next year we have 5. 2 of Brittany’s 3 tourney loses were to 6’5” Kelsey Bone of Texas A&M and 6’4” Tina Charles.

 

[AnotherVolFan]

So you don’t think we should have at least 2 good post players. Having talented players should go without question, but you also need depth at the different positions. Last year Notre Dame had 5 players over 6’2”, and Arial Braker is listed at 6’1” and plays big. We had 3 last year and this year. Morgan at 6’2” is big and in a pinch can play the post. If foul trouble left us with Morgan at the 5, and Gabby at the 4 then it would cause concern against a good big front court. Sorry, but height is a fact of life in sports. A team of 5’10” front court players should struggle against a team of equally talent 6’4” front court players. Of course there are exceptions. I’m saying having at least 4 players with size is ideal. Next year we have 5. 2 of Brittany’s 3 tourney loses were to 6’5” Kelsey Bone of Texas A&M and 6’4” Tina Charles.

Texas AM didn't have Kelsey that year they beat Baylor. If I recall correctly Danielle Adams was their go-to "post player" but I understand where you're coming from....a 6'4 front court player, *of equal talent*....should school a 5'10 front court player all day!

Like everyone says...you can't teach height, but I'd take a highly skilled 5'10 front court player over a 6'4 front court player with no skill in a heartbeat. Nina Davis of Baylor comes to mind.

 

[DobbsRover2]

2 of Brittany’s 3 tourney loses were to 6’5” Kelsey Bone of Texas A&M and 6’4” Tina Charles.

Eh? That's not right. After Charles dominated Griner as a freshman with experience simply winning the day, Texas A&M knocked off Baylor the next year but Danielle Adams was the center and she didn't have that much to do with Griner going 6 for 18, and Adams mostly did very poorly against Griner like in that FF game. And in Griner's senior year, Louisville did not really have a big to contain Griner so they swarmed her.

Having bigs to handle bigs may be important, but Griner's Tourney experiences are not the best example.

 

[ed4ourgirls]

Thanks for all the kudos that went out to Jamelle...she truly is / was an unsung heroine of that era...all the comments about her were spot-on.

I just wish to heck that she could talk some really talented kids into coming to Cincinnati.
I'd love to see her have a successful career in coaching, but like everyone else, she needs
talented players.

 

[RSHERMVIKES]

Two players for Geno's 1995 Championship team, SG Pam Webber and C 6'7" Kara Wolters have both said they came along at just the right time!
Both say they would be coming off the bench in garbage time if they played today! Pam started every game of her 4 years at UCONN, and Kara was the 1996 National Player of the year! Pam though beautiful was short and slow and Kara was talented around the basket but couldn't keep up with the action in today's fast paced game! That 1995 championship team had the right pieces to the puzzle, everyone fit their own niche to make the whole PERFECT! Carla Berube, Kisha Sales, Jamelle Elliott, Rebecca Lobo, & Jenn Rizzotti, were so much fun to watch!

 

[hoophuskee]

So you don’t think we should have at least 2 good post players.

I disagree with your assertion that we don’t already have at least “2 good enough” post players for the future with what we have coming in. We have more with our ball movement imo. UCONN offense just doesn’t dump the ball inside like Baylor did. That’s why Morgan has been so darn effective/brilliant.

Having talented players should go without question, but you also need depth at the different positions. Last year Notre Dame had 5 players over 6’2”, and Arial Braker is listed at 6’1” and plays big. We had 3 last year and this year.

Define “depth.” We kicked ND’s butt last year. They lost one post player and we wound up annihilating them on National TV. Talent and skill ripped through the heart of depth.

Morgan at 6’2” is big and in a pinch can play the post.

I disagree 100%. Once she got her legs nobody has been able to stop Morgan and she guarded one fo the finest centers in wcbb- EWilliams – and did a stand up job not to mention Duke had all this depth and we still beat them off the boards. OC she can have a bad game any player can. But if your overall team is better it would take a super great exceptional team to beat you.

You say “braker” plays “big” at 6’1 but 6’2 Morgan is only used as a post “in the pinch?” IMO no way.

If foul trouble left us with Morgan at the 5, and Gabby at the 4 then it would cause concern against a good big front court.

Sure. Living in the NorthEast they can all get the flu the same night too. If Morgan Tuck stays we’ll have her, Butler and Boykins after Stewie leaves. Then for pf we have Tuck and Boykins plus Collier, plus Gabby, plus KLS should be able to defend a 4 while offensively playing a 3 and Irwin. Geno didn’t get Irwin for nothing. That’s 7 players for 2 positions.

One the flip side what happens if The RealDanger or Nurse gets into foul trouble? Hopefully Chong can snap out of it – but two small guards if Nurse gets into foul trouble is not ideal imo. Thus imo an elite big guard is needed more. Maybe the 2017 recruit is elite then I’ll change my opinion.

Sorry, but height is a fact of life in sports.

And so is skill and talent. You’ve seen UCONN win titles by getting annihilated on the boards and being overall smaller, right? Gimmee skill and talent.

A team of 5’10” front court players should struggle against a team of equally talent 6’4” front court players.

From your initial post on this thread as to what UCONN needs going forward – how many 5’10 low post players does UCONN have from the 7 player’s I’ve mentioned above? So why are you mentioning 5’10 players to me? Are you going off-topic too like Wallyeast did? That’s fine if you are – but that’s not the subject I posted. So if you want to say you need size if all you have are 5’10 players then I certainly agree with that.

I’m saying having at least 4 players with size is ideal.

I think what we have already is ideal in terms of size. Ideal in terms of talent we would need Cox or McCoy. But they are great basketball players from what I understand.

 

[Sonny44]

Eh? That's not right. After Charles dominated Griner as a freshman with experience simply winning the day, Texas A&M knocked off Baylor the next year but Danielle Adams was the center and she didn't have that much to do with Griner going 6 for 18, and Adams mostly did very poorly against Griner like in that FF game. And in Griner's senior year, Louisville did not really have a big to contain Griner so they swarmed her.

Having bigs to handle bigs may be important, but Griner's Tourney experiences are not the best example.

Someone pointed out that with Griner baylor had only one championship, one!
But that's only one side of the coin. The other side is that if Geno had Griner UCONN would have four NC's, four!

 

[DobbsRover2]

Someone pointed out that with Griner baylor had only one championship, one!
But that's only one side of the coin. The other side is that if Geno had Griner UCONN would have four NC's, four!

Maybe, but nothing's ever certain. Many consider the 2001 UConn team the most talented to ever start the season but it lost games and then players and went down in the FF. Some consider Maya the most all-around talented player ever, but her teams got two NCs. Baylor with Griner and Sims at their best got knocked out in the Sweet 16.

On paper, of course UConn teams with Griner would be favored, in reality, who knows what plays out and whether some team in the Tournament goes unconscious from the arc? But in any case, Griner at UConn was never a likely reality either.

 

[Sonny44]

Maybe, but nothing's ever certain. Many consider the 2001 UConn team the most talented to ever start the season but it lost games and then players and went down in the FF. Some consider Maya the most all-around talented player ever, but her teams got two NCs. Baylor with Griner and Sims at their best got knocked out in the Sweet 16.

On paper, of course UConn teams with Griner would be favored, in reality, who knows what plays out and whether some team in the Tournament goes unconscious from the arc? But in any case, Griner at UConn was never a likely reality either.

Yes, but my point was that although you can win without height it's easier to win with height.