Rebounding

[jerseyguy68]

You folks seem to take some of my comments personally. I’m a huge fan of UConn. I don’t watch the game as a fan, I watch as a former player and coach. Rebounding is about positioning and desire. It isn’t fun, it’s dirty work. I blame the early coaches for not hammering home the fundamentals. Girls, with few exceptions are not great leapers. Some of it is physiological. All the more reason the need to box out. Someone should ask Geno what he thinks about our rebounding.

 

[hoophuskee]

With the exception of one game in which Jana scored in double figures, I have yet to see UConn make a strong effort to get her the ball in the position she likes., Until she starts shooting her jumper, keep her down low so she will have more opportunities to score inside. She already has the moves.

Jana has ben playing well for a frosh - and a player of need. Very impressive in the paint.

With that said, UCONN shouldn't make a strong effort to get her the ball. She is 8th on the team in true field goal % and she has nearly 3 times as many turnovers vs assists. But anyhow, the Offense is run for all, but the main payaers that need to take the most shots are The Big 3. They want to run their offenise and a quick yet controlled pace. Not just look to feed the post.

 

[hoophuskee]

You folks seem to take some of my comments personally. I’m a huge fan of UConn. I don’t watch the game as a fan, I watch as a former player and coach. Rebounding is about positioning and desire. It isn’t fun, it’s dirty work. I blame the early coaches for not hammering home the fundamentals. Girls, with few exceptions are not great leapers. Some of it is physiological. All the more reason the need to box out. Someone should ask Geno what he thinks about our rebounding.

You're not the coach. Other than that it's okay some of us disagree with you. Many of us disagree with coaches all the time and some on here disagreee with Geno. No one is immune., And - no offense - you're not immune either. IMO you view of the what you feel is lack of certain fundamentals is highly over-inflated.

 

[fomalhaut]

There's always room for improvement, but 34 defensive rebounds for Connecticut against 15 offensive for Louisville is hardly terrible: Connecticut is leading the Big East at 74%, and Saturday night was just a hair below that. On the other hand Connecticut had 18 offensive to Louisville's 13 defensive.

 

[donalddoowop]

Jana has ben playing well for a frosh - and a player of need. Very impressive in the paint.

With that said, UCONN shouldn't make a strong effort to get her the ball. She is 8th on the team in true field goal % and she has nearly 3 times as many turnovers vs assists. But anyhow, the Offense is run for all, but the main payaers that need to take the most shots are The Big 3. They want to run their offenise and a quick yet controlled pace. Not just look to feed the post.

There are times when post scoring will be needed and if UConn does not get better at it then it may come back to hurt. There is nothing wrong with making a strong effort to get her the ball, imo, especially in games where they have a big lead and can afford to. You have your opinion, and I have mine.

 

[Conndog]

Jana has really soft hands around the basket, with the ability to score with either hand. She demonstrated some of that last night. She is also a big, strong bull in the low blocks, capable of establishing position and receiving the ball in position to score.

That combination will ultimately make UConn undefendable as Jana masters her low post moves. Teams will either have to swarm Jana in the post, leaving UConn’s shooters open, or they can chase UConn’s shooters around the perimeter, leaving Jana one on one in the low blocks.

Learning how to pivot and move better is the key for Jana. I’m hoping she will become the female version of Adama Sanogo!

 

[Alydar]

Louisville had 15 offensive rebounds and only 8 second chance points. The defense was terrific last night

The Huskies had a 46 point lead against a ranked team before Geno called off the dogs. It could have been a 50+ point destruction. I dunno why UConn fans have to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Honestly, I think they learned it from Geno, who does it to motivate his players to never be satisfied. But he also tells his players to celebrate all the small victories and some fans forget to do that.

 

[Alydar]

Here's why, aside from pure masochism: I'm sure you remember (though newer BYers may not) the days when fans went to most games -- which were 40-point destructions of opponents -- to watch something we considered not a competitive basketball game, but performance art. We all knew who would win (at least most of the time). But we were watching to see HOW they would win -- what wonderful sequenc of passes Maya or Stef or Renee, or whoever, would come up with.

When that's the way you like to watch your games, you look for any imperfection at all that might keep the current edition of the team from performing in the way you were used toi seeing.

Were we spoiled? Hell, yes. are we likely to see a team like those old ones again soon? Nope, if for no other reason than the competition is better and there are probably 12 high-0quality programs out ther gatteing top recruits (insteads of 3 or 4, like there were back then).

Times have changed, as they always do. That doesn't mean that UConn fans change as quickly, For my money, it's one of the most interesting parts of being a UConn WCBB fan.

Great post. "performance art" is a good description of why those blowouts were fun to watch.

I think we also make too much of the past teams' "perfection". Go into the archives and watch some 2002 games and you'll see that they didn't didn't play a lot of "40 minute" games. There were lapses and 10 minute scoring droughts. Bird and Taurasi made bad passes and the front court gave up offensive rebounds. But we have erased most of those things from our memories and built a myth around the past being a lot more perfect that it really was.

 

[cometjo]

Louisville’s defensive game plan was based on stopping Paige. She was doubled on every high pick and roll and swarmed on whenever she tried to penetrate. That creates a lot of room for other Huskies to operate. Last night Sarah, Azzi & Ashlynn all came up big, and oh by the way, Paige led the team in assists.

Teams that play UConn have to pick their poison. You want to stop Paige from scoring? Fine. Sarah & Azzi will have a field day on offense.

The fact that UConn was able to go up by 46 based on the scoring of those left open by the double teams is not likely to encourage other teams to emulate that strategy.

 

[hoophuskee]

There are times when post scoring will be needed and if UConn does not get better at it then it may come back to hurt. There is nothing wrong with making a strong effort to get her the ball, imo, especially in games where they have a big lead and can afford to. You have your opinion, and I have mine.

You don't play the game like that. You don't go and force giving the ball to one of your worst efficient players when you have scorers much much more efficient than her. You work to make your team offense better. Giving the ball to one of least effcient players on yor team is not an answer.

 

[fomalhaut]

Great post. "performance art" is a good description of why those blowouts were fun to watch.

I think we also make too much of the past teams' "perfection". Go into the archives and watch some 2002 games and you'll see that they didn't didn't play a lot of "40 minute" games. There were lapses and 10 minute scoring droughts. Bird and Taurasi made bad passes and the front court gave up offensive rebounds. But we have erased most of those things from our memories and built a myth around the past being a lot more perfect that it really was.

I'll never forget Geno's interview with Holly Rowe late in a national championship, leading by 19, absolutely beside himself because they had made about three straight bad turnovers. Funniest interview ever.

 

[Alydar]

I'm no Kevin McHale, but there are times when it looks like Jana is making too many moves around the basket.

But I agree with everyone, she's going to be fine. She made a text book blockout/rebound at one point in the game.

Her father is a well known coach so I'd guess she learned those moves before she was 5' tall. Her toughest adjustment has been learning US-style physicality and what is and isn't a foul. I think she's way ahead of where Dolson was as a freshman, both skill-wise and conditioning-wise.

 

[meyers7]

This was the first game I’ve watched in quite a while due to Medical issues and I have a few observations. First, Page needs to get herself going first, then she can become a facilitator. She’s too unselfish if that’s possible. I’m talking specifically about her shot which looks off and sometimes rushed. Her rythym and form is not smooth. It’s going to bite us against a good team, which UL is not. Lastly, we gave up multiple offensive rebounds on several possessions and that has to change to become a truly elite team. Rebounding has become a lost art in all levels of basketball, just as bunting and hitting for average in baseball has all but disappeared from the sport. It doesn’t make the highlights. I know many folks on here are gonna disagree with my thoughts but I’m thinking about number 12.

If you're gonna look at the numbers, then look at the numbers.

Louisville missed 46 shots and got 15 off. rebounds
UCONN missed 30 shots and got 18 off rebounds

So which team is the better offensive rebounding team?

People always forget to get a lot of offensive rebounds, you have to miss a lot of shots.

 

[Cuango]

You folks seem to take some of my comments personally. I’m a huge fan of UConn. I don’t watch the game as a fan, I watch as a former player and coach. Rebounding is about positioning and desire. It isn’t fun, it’s dirty work. I blame the early coaches for not hammering home the fundamentals. Girls, with few exceptions are not great leapers. Some of it is physiological. All the more reason the need to box out. Someone should ask Geno what he thinks about our rebounding.

I agree about boxing out! That is one area where this team, as great as it is, seems to be lacking every year (at least for the past four or five years) I just don’t see them, as a whole, putting their butt against someone when the ball is in the air. Ash was a notable exception last season. I remember clearly remarking on how she would immediately back against her player as the shot was on its way!

 

[Zarathustra]

You don't play the game like that. You don't go and force giving the ball to one of your worst efficient players when you have scorers much much more efficient than her. You work to make your team offense better. Giving the ball to one of least effcient players on yor team is not an answer.

When the game is "won" I don't see a problem with giving
any first-year player (or red-shirted player) extra "reps" to
provide "real time" experience and " stuff" for the post
game review and for motivation for change. Jana may not
be an "end of the bench" player, but I like to see those
entry passes being part of the "real game" action, NO???

 

[hoophuskee]

When the game is "won" I don't see a problem with giving
any first-year player (or red-shirted player) extra "reps" to
provide "real time" experience and " stuff" for the post
game review and for motivation for change. Jana may not
be an "end of the bench" player, but I like to see those
entry passes being part of the "real game" action, NO???

Yes. But she has been getting some passes. hasn't she? It's not like all of her points are coming from Offensive Rebounding.

And I was responding to the poster saying "A strong effort" should be given to get her the ball. I was not suggesting to freeze her out from getting her the ball.

And the other players get to play too not just as passers too. Because many of these same players have to also yield when they are in with Paige, Azi and Sarah.

And even though they are more efficient than Jana they have to give up open looks even though they are proving to be more efficient just because of a potential imaginary game that they might need her more rather than the team needing them for example?

Many talk about bench. bench. Bench. But how is it that you’re maximizing the bench when for example you now limit even more KK from taking outside shots? How much better will she get if you restrict her more? And she is competing for playing time with Chen and Shade. So they are both scorers and shooters. So, now we're supposed to restrict them too? And Allie is so far getting beaten out. so now she is to be limited from showing what she can do? And Cheli also above everything else needs to show off her shot. She seems to do everything else well.

SO bottom-line is - we're not going to want the more efficient scorers to take shots. We're going to restrict them and force-feed a so-far less efficient scorer in which they would also be changing the style that UCONN wants to play which is fast pace, which by the way won't help them when UCONN is playing fast with Paige/Azzi/Sarah, to an imaginary game that UCONN might need Jana to be more of a scorer in which no matter how many minutes you give her, as a frosh, you still would have no idea that she would be able to convert. This makes no sense to me.

 

[Gus Mahler]

Great post. "performance art" is a good description of why those blowouts were fun to watch.

I think we also make too much of the past teams' "perfection". Go into the archives and watch some 2002 games and you'll see that they didn't didn't play a lot of "40 minute" games. There were lapses and 10 minute scoring droughts. Bird and Taurasi made bad passes and the front court gave up offensive rebounds. But we have erased most of those things from our memories and built a myth around the past being a lot more perfect that it really was.

A specific example of your point re the 2002 team would be the semis against TN. Sure, they tromped them on the scoreboard, but UConn played a sloppy game in my view. In the final, they couldn't put OK away until the end. Also, as Geno notes in his book, Swin Cash didn't play very well in the FF. Now she's in the Naismith HOF.

 

[Gus Mahler]

As a general statement, I think feeding a 6-5 post is a good idea, especially if the post is being single-covered. Simply receiving a post feed doesn't mean she has to shoot every time, either. So much of the modern game is inside out. Having a big post be a threat to score helps the outside game a great deal.

Regarding efficiency, giving Jana a lot of game reps strikes me a being a good tactic for developing efficiency, even if it's not there in December.

Yes. But she has been getting some passes. hasn't she? It's not like all of her points are coming from Offensive Rebounding.

And I was responding to the poster saying "A strong effort" should be given to get her the ball. I was not suggesting to freeze her out from getting her the ball.

And the other players get to play too not just as passers too. Because many of these same players have to also yield when they are in with Paige, Azi and Sarah.

And even though they are more efficient than Jana they have to give up open looks even though they are proving to be more efficient just because of a potential imaginary game that they might need her more rather than the team needing them for example?

Many talk about bench. bench. Bench. But how is it that you’re maximizing the bench when for example you now limit even more KK from taking outside shots? How much better will she get if you restrict her more? And she is competing for playing time with Chen and Shade. So they are both scorers and shooters. So, now we're supposed to restrict them too? And Allie is so far getting beaten out. so now she is to be limited from showing what she can do? And Cheli also above everything else needs to show off her shot. She seems to do everything else well.

SO bottom-line is - we're not going to want the more efficient scorers to take shots. We're going to restrict them and force-feed a so-far less efficient scorer in which they would also be changing the style that UCONN wants to play which is fast pace, which by the way won't help them when UCONN is playing fast with Paige/Azzi/Sarah, to an imaginary game that UCONN might need Jana to be more of a scorer in which no matter how many minutes you give her, as a frosh, you still would have no idea that she would be able to convert. This makes no sense to me.

 

[Cuango]

You don't play the game like that. You don't go and force giving the ball to one of your worst efficient players when you have scorers much much more efficient than her. You work to make your team offense better. Giving the ball to one of least effcient players on yor team is not an answer.

Jana is likely to be a key player for us for the next three and 1/2 years! Sure, in big, competitive games like Notre Dame, you play to win with your best players getting most of the touches! However, we have a conference schedule that, let’s face it, we could probably win with our second team. This is when you get Jana her shots in the hope that she might be able to contribute in April/March and even if that does not happen, hopefully next season!

 

[Dugway]

Regardless of the statistics, I recall on more than just one occasion, early in the 1st quarter, I was cursing at the television, “grab the ball!” Based upon the statistics, this obviously must not have been all that many times, but it rings very heavily in my memory.

On rebounds, I recall that UConn was excellent at getting position on, and boxing out (or as it may have been boxing in) the Louisville player(s). The shot would be taken, UConn would man-up on the opposition, the ball would be inbound to the hoop and/or bouncing off the iron, and we would have that Louisville player sealed off! And I do mean sealed off; just no way were they getting the rebound! And, as it turned out, those players we had boxed out, rarely would get a rebound!

Our player(s) in the paint would physically be in between the opposition and the ball, perfect, holding them back from getting the rebound … but at some point, you have to give up on that boxing out technique and run over and simply “Grab the Ball!” as I would yell. Our player would be the closest to it, however we’d be in such a pushing match, playing excellent technique, not willing to give way, that when the ball came down maybe six feet away, we would not be in a position to retrieve it. After all of that battle boxing out, some little Louisville guard would run free and go retrieve the rebound right out from under us. I of course would curse, “#^%!, Grab the ball!”

Well, not too much later into the game, I relaxed a little. We were now up by a dozen or more, and I was not quite so ‘on the edge of my seat’, and I no longer cursing at my television screen. Oh, that is when I also recognized that more times than not, that pesky little guard running over there and grabbing the rebound … that was Paige; she ended up with 10! AND, Kaitlyn, Azzi, Ash, Q and KK accounted for another 18…

 

[hoophuskee]

As a general statement, I think feeding a 6-5 post is a good idea, especially if the post is being single-covered. Simply receiving a post feed doesn't mean she has to shoot every time, either. So much of the modern game is inside out. Having a big post be a threat to score helps the outside game a great deal.

Regarding efficiency, giving Jana a lot of game reps strikes me a being a good tactic for developing efficiency, even if it's not there in December.
.

A "general" statement sure, but not "this" statement. Basketball stats can count. It is generally a terrible idea to use imagination because of physical features over fundamentals/.stats. The stats clearly show that Jana is 8th in terms of efficiency. And to slow down the pace of play for a less efficient player is rarely ever a good idea.

And so much of the modern game is free of the mindset that you need to be inside out. These lats two years Iowa was not inside out. Lats year UCONN was not inside out. One of the all-time great teams in NBA History were the Warriors and they were not Inside-Out. The Chicago Bulls led by Jordan were not inside out – but if that isn’t conserved modern era certainly LeBron was when we was winning. And the Boston Celtics last year were not inside out. What the modern era has shown us is that you can be successful different ways - not tied down to one-way.

As far as efficiency, what is holding back Jana is that she bricks free throws. Some centers never get much better. Others no matter how many minutes you give for a given year, sometimes Bigs just won't get better until the next year. If you can't rely on her to hit her free throws at the end of the game, then how much value is she giving you vs all the time you wanted force-feeding her? You not only stunted the team but you stunted many of the other players. If the game is close and baskets are at a premium why would you want the ball going into an absolute awful free throw shooter?

And while you make a point that the post doesn't need to shoot every time, this is true but it if we open this door then we can open that not only 6'5 players can low post too. It doesn’t have to be Jana. And secondly, why not make passes inside to players that can pass back out pretty well Because Jana's passing has bene atrocious.

How many player’s minutes have to be sacrificed and their growth stunted all because there is "hope" that one of the least inefficient players on the team with very little experience will hopefully be a dangerous player late rather than what she is right now- which is pretty good? She is doing fine right now - she is averaging 16 minutes a game and averaging near 6 shots a game. She is doing fine. Patience is warranted. Not force-feeding.

For anyone suggesting inside-out featuring / force-feeding Jana at this moment – think of this: She is among the least efficient scorers and probably the worst passer in which she is going to eventually go against in late rounds very tough battle-tested experienced players, and we expect she is going to do very well in a style of force-feeding rather than playing off of Paige, Azzi and Sarah within an Offense that has been awesome for 30 years? You are taking the ball out of superior players hands along with there will be less passes that will wind up going to Paige/Azzi, and Sarah because of less efficient passing coming from Jana. And this supposed to be good all because she is 6’5?

 

[hoophuskee]

Jana is likely to be a key player for us for the next three and 1/2 years! Sure, in big, competitive games like Notre Dame, you play to win with your best players getting most of the touches! However, we have a conference schedule that, let’s face it, we could probably win with our second team. This is when you get Jana her shots in the hope that she might be able to contribute in April/March and even if that does not happen, hopefully next season!

Jana is helping now at this moment. She is getting shots right now. She played 20 minutes vs Ole Miss- so without a doubt she helped. Patience. There is no needto force-feed. UCONN is already a force of a team with the current path they are following. Let’s wait for Jana to play better in those minutes within the type of Offense that has bene a staple all these years. She is still getting decent minutes.

Her current 16 minute average is 3 minutes above what Cardoso from SoCar averaged in her soph year and just 2 minutes under what Cardoso’s averaged in her jr year. If those minutes are good enough for Cardoso, then roughly the minutes and style Jana is playing right now should be good enough as well.

 

[Alydar]

Jana is helping now at this moment. She is getting shots right now. She played 20 minutes vs Ole Miss- so without a doubt she helped. Patience. There is no needto force-feed. UCONN is already a force of a team with the current path they are following. Let’s wait for Jana to play better in those minutes within the type of Offense that has bene a staple all these years. She is still getting decent minutes.

Her current 16 minute average is 3 minutes above what Cardoso from SoCar averaged in her soph year and just 2 minutes under what Cardoso’s averaged in her jr year. If those minutes are good enough for Cardoso, then roughly the minutes and style Jana is playing right now should be good enough as well.

It's also a long season in D1 for freshmen and El Alfy will be much more valuable in March than now so 15 per game won't wear her down. She is also shooting 55%. A pleasant alternative to endless missed bunnies of past 1st year posts.

 

[hoophuskee]

It's also a long season in D1 for freshmen and El Alfy will be much more valuable in March than now so 15 per game won't wear her down. She is also shooting 55%. A pleasant alternative to endless missed bunnies of past 1st year posts.

Yes lots of time.

She has to be able to hit her free throws. If she can't, then it negates to a degree the idea of feeding the her in the post much in big games. And if a player can't be relied on in certain aspects of scoring, then why force-feed her which wiould only result in the opposing team's Defense exploiting a weakness/or less efficient part of their Offense.

Though at the end of the day I'd be shocked if her free throw shooting doesn't get significantly better.

 

[Cuango]

Jana is helping now at this moment. She is getting shots right now. She played 20 minutes vs Ole Miss- so without a doubt she helped. Patience. There is no needto force-feed. UCONN is already a force of a team with the current path they are following. Let’s wait for Jana to play better in those minutes within the type of Offense that has bene a staple all these years. She is still getting decent minutes.

Her current 16 minute average is 3 minutes above what Cardoso from SoCar averaged in her soph year and just 2 minutes under what Cardoso’s averaged in her jr year. If those minutes are good enough for Cardoso, then roughly the minutes and style Jana is playing right now should be good enough as well.

Not using the conference schedule to give certain players extra reps would essentially be coaching malpractice! I would of course, put Jana at the top of that list as she has certain physical attributes that will prove very valuable for this team! I’m not sure what Cardoso’s sophomore and Jr minutes has to do with anything. Jana is essentially a freshman and needs as much playing time as possible to aid her development into what we all hope will be a dominant post for us over the coming three and 1/2 years! Obviously, she is not the only one that needs minutes and hopefully, Geno will/can use the conference games (many of them) to reward/develop some of the younger talent on this roster!

 

[oldude]

Yes lots of time.

She has to be able to hit her free throws. If she can't, then it negates to a degree the idea of feeding the her in the post much in big games. And if a player can't be relied on in certain aspects of scoring, then why force-feed her which wiould only result in the opposing team's Defense exploiting a weakness/or less efficient part of their Offense.

Though at the end of the day I'd be shocked if her free throw shooting doesn't get significantly better.

Specifically, Jana has to be able to hit her 1st free throw. She is currently 6/16 from the FT line, which I believe is a combination of 0% on FT #1 and 75% on FT #2.

Very odd…..

 

[hoophuskee]

Not using the conference schedule to give certain players extra reps would essentially be coaching malpractice! I would of course, put Jana at the top of that list as she has certain physical attributes that will prove very valuable for this team! I’m not sure what Cardoso’s sophomore and Jr minutes has to do with anything. Jana is essentially a freshman and needs as much playing time as possible to aid her development into what we all hope will be a dominant post for us over the coming three and 1/2 years! Obviously, she is not the only one that needs minutes and hopefully, Geno will/can use the conference games (many of them) to reward/develop some of the younger talent on this roster!

Again -- she has been playing in blowouts. And she has been playing in close games. What is malpractice is force-feeding a player that is one of your most least efficient players that is unproven in addition to stunting the growth of all other players in addition to changing the style of how you want to play - which is fast paced all because a player is 6'5 with no proven track record.

And again Cardoso was able to play around the same minutes for 2 years while right now Jana is playing around the same. If Cardoso could develop at an extremely high level playing around the same minutes that Jana is playing right now, then this highlights that Jana can do the same with roughly the same number of minutes she is getting right now. Cardoso was the epitome of a dominant post.

Of course Geno will use blowouts to play his bench and that is what he is doing right now!

 

[Rowdy831]

It was clear that UConn has a bunch of great players and UL doesn't. I don't think the starting five right now is championship level but I do think a championship level starting five is on the team. When you have three players that are as good or better than any other players in the country you should win and win big.

They flexed a little bit against UL and until Geno called them off a little it looked like UL might not have a FG in the third quarter. As far as rebounding goes I think UL had one sequence in the game where they got 4-5 looks on one trip down the floor. Other than that one trip they completely controlled every aspect of that game.