Re-watching Game of Thrones

nelsonmuntz

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#1
Start to finish. Some initial thoughts:

1) Nothing good ever happens at Craster's Keep

2) I don't think anything Sansa has done makes the Top 5 stupidest things done by Starks.
 

ZooCougar

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#2
Start to finish. Some initial thoughts:

1) Nothing good ever happens at Craster's Keep

2) I don't think anything Sansa has done makes the Top 5 stupidest things done by Starks.
I think it’s funny when people criticize characters for not acting on information that the don’t have.
 

nelsonmuntz

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#4
you must not have even finished S1E1 yet.
My top 7 Stark screwups:

1) Leeana running off with Rhaegar and not telling anyone. This started the whole scalito show. This is such a major plot point, that I will be a little pissed if the show never explains why they didn't tell anyone.

2) Kaitlyn kidnapping Tyrion with no plan of what to do with him was pretty stupid, and started the war between the Lannisters and Starks. The show points out how stupid this was repeatedly through the first season.

3) Robb Stark killing Karstark - this was a huge plot twist in season 3, and Kaitlyn, the Blackfish, and Robb's wife all tell him this is a bad idea before he does it.

4) Jon Snow charging Ramsay's army - Snow spends 5 seasons talking about discipline in battle, and then does something that stupid that almost gets his whole army killed.

5) Arya not ordering Jaqen Hagar to kill Tywin when they were at Harrenhal. This was a major screwup by Arya, and one that Gendry pointed out to Arya after she did it.

6) Ned Stark turning down Renly's offer for assistance while Robert was dying. Ned takes over if he accepts Renly's help. This screw up was brought up several times in season 2.

7) Kaitlyn and Robb walking their whole army into a trap at the Red Wedding. The show mentions how untrustworthy Walder Frey is every time it mentions him at all in the first 3 seasons. Watching the show the second time, the foreshadowing is so overwhelming that there might as well have been a ticker along the bottom of the screen the first 3 seasons telling us when and how the Starks were going to get slaughtered.

The show makes no secret that the Starks are a family of idiots, from the 3rd or 4th episode when Ned has Littlefinger pinned against the wall of his brothel, and after being released, Littlefinger says "the Starks, quick tempers...slow minds". In fact, the show tips hammers this fact home most episodes. Even in the Tywin/Arya and Hound/Arya arcs, the other characters continually point out to Arya that she is not nearly as smart as she thinks she is, and her and Bran are the smartest of the Starks.
 

August_West

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#5
My top 7 Stark screwups:

1) Leeana running off with Rhaegar and not telling anyone. This started the whole scalito show. This is such a major plot point, that I will be a little pissed if the show never explains why they didn't tell anyone.

2) Kaitlyn kidnapping Tyrion with no plan of what to do with him was pretty stupid, and started the war between the Lannisters and Starks. The show points out how stupid this was repeatedly through the first season.

3) Robb Stark killing Karstark - this was a huge plot twist in season 3, and Kaitlyn, the Blackfish, and Robb's wife all tell him this is a bad idea before he does it.

4) Jon Snow charging Ramsay's army - Snow spends 5 seasons talking about discipline in battle, and then does something that stupid that almost gets his whole army killed.

5) Arya not ordering Jaqen Hagar to kill Tywin when they were at Harrenhal. This was a major screwup by Arya, and one that Gendry pointed out to Arya after she did it.

6) Ned Stark turning down Renly's offer for assistance while Robert was dying. Ned takes over if he accepts Renly's help. This screw up was brought up several times in season 2.

7) Kaitlyn and Robb walking their whole army into a trap at the Red Wedding. The show mentions how untrustworthy Walder Frey is every time it mentions him at all in the first 3 seasons. Watching the show the second time, the foreshadowing is so overwhelming that there might as well have been a ticker along the bottom of the screen the first 3 seasons telling us when and how the Starks were going to get slaughtered.

The show makes no secret that the Starks are a family of idiots, from the 3rd or 4th episode when Ned has Littlefinger pinned against the wall of his brothel, and after being released, Littlefinger says "the Starks, quick tempers...slow minds". In fact, the show tips hammers this fact home most episodes. Even in the Tywin/Arya and Hound/Arya arcs, the other characters continually point out to Arya that she is not nearly as smart as she thinks she is, and her and Bran are the smartest of the Starks.

How Sansa selling out her father and providing inside info to Cersei about Neds plan to leave Kings landing all in the name of her own vanity doesnt even make your top 7, makes your whole list invalid. It directly got her fathers head chopped off.
 

nelsonmuntz

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#6
How Sansa selling out her father and providing inside info to Cersei about Neds plan to leave Kings landing all in the name of her own vanity doesnt even make your top 7, makes your whole list invalid. It directly got her fathers head chopped off.
Nope. Ned takes up Renly's offer for help, and it doesn't matter what Sansa does.
 

nelsonmuntz

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#8
We will agree to disagree.

Game of Thrones does well on a re-watching. They clearly had outlined the whole show, because there is a lot of foreshadowing in Season 1 and 2 of stuff that would happen years later. I missed most of it the first time. I give the writers credit for playing the long game, because this was a high risk show when it first went on the air. Sean Bean and Lena Headey were the only actors that anyone cared about, and the show had a pretty big budget out of the gate.

Not all shows do well on re-watch. A show like Breaking Bad, that is more plot oriented than character oriented, is not nearly as good the second time. There are some excellent episodes, but I would never rewatch every Breaking Bad show. Same with Big Love, which I really liked when it was on the air. Mad Men, Sopranos and Game of Thrones are more character oriented, and those do well on rewatch.
 

August_West

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#9
We will agree to disagree.

Game of Thrones does well on a re-watching. They clearly had outlined the whole show, because there is a lot of foreshadowing in Season 1 and 2 of stuff that would happen years later. I missed most of it the first time. I give the writers credit for playing the long game, because this was a high risk show when it first went on the air. Sean Bean and Lena Headey were the only actors that anyone cared about, and the show had a pretty big budget out of the gate.

Not all shows do well on re-watch. A show like Breaking Bad, that is more plot oriented than character oriented, is not nearly as good the second time. There are some excellent episodes, but I would never rewatch every Breaking Bad show. Same with Big Love, which I really liked when it was on the air. Mad Men, Sopranos and Game of Thrones are more character oriented, and those do well on rewatch.
I rewatched recently to finally get my wife into it.

It does do well on rewatch until you get to the last couple seasons, and then you get sad because the show is a shell of its former great self and never coming back.

Breaking Bad is a decent rewatch (but not as good as 1st time, I agree) but much more palatable if you fast forward through skylar and walt jr every time they appear. And stand alone Marie. get rid of her too.

I was shocked how well Lost held up on rewatch. Didnt expect it becuase in Real time it was so plot/ cliff hanger driven and that was your focus. But I found 2nd time through to be a revelation of decent character development and lots of small but consequential details not picked up first time through.

Sopranos is a fantastic rewatch. ALWAYS. in the middle of season 2 right now.

Wire best rewatch value of all time.
 

Rocktheworld

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#10
I rewatched recently to finally get my wife into it.

It does do well on rewatch until you get to the last couple seasons, and then you get sad because the show is a shell of its former great self and never coming back.

Breaking Bad is a decent rewatch (but not as good as 1st time, I agree) but much more palatable if you fast forward through skylar and walt jr every time they appear. And stand alone Marie. get rid of her too.

I was shocked how well Lost held up on rewatch. Didnt expect it becuase in Real time it was so plot/ cliff hanger driven and that was your focus. But I found 2nd time through to be a revelation of decent character development and lots of small but consequential details not picked up first time through.

Sopranos is a fantastic rewatch. ALWAYS. in the middle of season 2 right now.

Wire best rewatch value of all time.
Dexter was a good re-watch. I re-watched it half to watch Deb's character development.

In contrast to Breaking Bad, Dexter has supporting characters who are actually affected by the main character's actions. Sure, Skylar has to get dirty. Hank is Walter's sole "loss" to which we see Walt's reaction and processing of what he has done and become. But Dexter ends up getting at least 3 people close to him killed (from his boss and friend; to his wife and mother of his child; to his sister) AND loses FOUR families between Rita, Hannah, Rudy, and Deb. In BB, the other characters besides Jesse are pawns (and even Jesse is a pawn half the time). And I half-seriously ask if you can you think of a more useless character than Walt Jr.

And Dexter's losses aren't even a part of a single simple arc like Walt going from beta chemistry teacher to ruthless drug lord; the overall plot is incredibly deep especially compared to a BB. You get caught up in the cat-and-mouse games he plays with the other serial killers the first time through but you see a lot more in the subsequent watches. And not to mention as poor as Dexter's final crescendo of was, the closing shot was somehow less bad than BB's.

I haven't watched a third time so I can't speak to that.
 
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#11
I recently started my first rewatch after having watched it from the beginning. Lots of stuff I didnt realize the first time through that now have giant red flags when you know what is coming. They really do set up lots of the big things that I did not see the first time. Midway through season 5 at the moment and am having a great time seeing it again.

And the Stark's are idiots.
 

nelsonmuntz

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#12
There better be a payoff for all the screen time that Theon has gotten. I honestly don't see the point in anything he has done since being captured by Ramsay. He could have just as easily been killed at Winterfell, and the writers could have had Ramsay torture some red shirts if they wanted to show how bad he was.
 

nelsonmuntz

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#14
Especially Sansa, amirite?
You could make the case that Sansa starts to come out of her dive when she bolts at the Purple Wedding. Robb, Kaitlyn and Ned are idiots right up to the moment they die. Leeana is a see you next Tuesday, in addition to being an idiot. And she gets thousands killed.
 

Rocktheworld

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#15
There better be a payoff for all the screen time that Theon has gotten. I honestly don't see the point in anything he has done since being captured by Ramsay. He could have just as easily been killed at Winterfell, and the writers could have had Ramsay torture some red shirts if they wanted to show how bad he was.
I was saying this as the most recent season went on and he didn’t die after jumping off the boat. Another incredibly implausible survival, this time, for what exactly? The series has plenty of redemption stories to finish besides his (didn’t it and his arc come to an end when he helped Sansa escape anyway?). And like you said, where is his redemption leading to?
 
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SubbaBub

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#16
As long as the series has a man Ironborn component, he is necessary.


Though if you weren't planning on including the Kingsmoot, the Ironborn should have been given the Sand snake treatment.

Still better than being skipped altogether like the Tyrian in Valeria storyline.
 

nelsonmuntz

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#17
As long as the series has a man Ironborn component, he is necessary.


Though if you weren't planning on including the Kingsmoot, the Ironborn should have been given the Sand snake treatment.

Still better than being skipped altogether like the Tyrian in Valeria storyline.
The Tyrion in Valeria storyline deserved to be skipped. It had issues.
 

nelsonmuntz

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#18
Season 5 is better the second time than it was the first. It is a very character-heavy season without a lot happening, and if viewers will be disappointed if they are looking for action.

Clyburn and Alliser Thorne are two of my favorite secondary/tertiary characters in the show. The characters are the middle management of Westeros. They are close but can't quite get real leadership positions. Clyburn is smarter, and latches on to Cersei. Thorne has too much pride, takes a few swings at Jon Snow, but doesn't have "it". Both actors do a great job with those characters.
 
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#20
My top 7 Stark screwups:

1) Leeana running off with Rhaegar and not telling anyone. This started the whole scalito show. This is such a major plot point, that I will be a little pissed if the show never explains why they didn't tell anyone.

2) Kaitlyn kidnapping Tyrion with no plan of what to do with him was pretty stupid, and started the war between the Lannisters and Starks. The show points out how stupid this was repeatedly through the first season.

3) Robb Stark killing Karstark - this was a huge plot twist in season 3, and Kaitlyn, the Blackfish, and Robb's wife all tell him this is a bad idea before he does it.

4) Jon Snow charging Ramsay's army - Snow spends 5 seasons talking about discipline in battle, and then does something that stupid that almost gets his whole army killed.

5) Arya not ordering Jaqen Hagar to kill Tywin when they were at Harrenhal. This was a major screwup by Arya, and one that Gendry pointed out to Arya after she did it.

6) Ned Stark turning down Renly's offer for assistance while Robert was dying. Ned takes over if he accepts Renly's help. This screw up was brought up several times in season 2.

7) Kaitlyn and Robb walking their whole army into a trap at the Red Wedding. The show mentions how untrustworthy Walder Frey is every time it mentions him at all in the first 3 seasons. Watching the show the second time, the foreshadowing is so overwhelming that there might as well have been a ticker along the bottom of the screen the first 3 seasons telling us when and how the Starks were going to get slaughtered.

The show makes no secret that the Starks are a family of idiots, from the 3rd or 4th episode when Ned has Littlefinger pinned against the wall of his brothel, and after being released, Littlefinger says "the Starks, quick tempers...slow minds". In fact, the show tips hammers this fact home most episodes. Even in the Tywin/Arya and Hound/Arya arcs, the other characters continually point out to Arya that she is not nearly as smart as she thinks she is, and her and Bran are the smartest of the Starks.
In my mind you are merely 100% correct in all of these issues that you've mention. Completely on point. However, for me #2 was Ned's family immediately assuming she was raped which then accelerated the war. Of course viewing #'s 1 and 2 in that light the Starks and the Baratheon's earned and deserved all the suffering that entails from the beginning of the books. They in fact are the initial "bad guys".
 

nelsonmuntz

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#25
Finished the re-watch this week, and am ready for a Game of Thrones break.

I think the last two seasons do really well from the standpoint of building tension. There are some really great scenes in the final season, such as Brienne and Arya sparring, Arya slaughtering the Freys, and the Field of Fire. The dialogue was well done. Olenna's final scene with Jaime was excellent. More Hound is a good thing, and they even managed to get sexual tension out of Dany and Jon, which is an achievement since I think Emelia Clarke and Kit Harrington are mediocre actors on their good days. Clyburn is a great secondary character, as is Davos.

The Expendables mission was contrived, but Jorah, Tormund, Jon Snow, Deric, Thoros, Sandor and Gendry on a suicide mission is going to be fun to watch regardless of how silly the premise is.

My big issue with the show is that it is no longer a multi-lateral political drama, which was interesting, and has become Zombie Apocalypse, which is much less interesting. Trying to figure out which of 20 major characters was going to win the Game of Thrones made this one of the most interesting shows in TV history, but that ended with Ramsey's death and Cersei nuking half the cast at the Sept of Baelor. Now it is a simple "will the zonbies win or lose", which has been covered in dozens of movies and multiple TV shows.
 
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